49ers vs. Crabtree (Contract - Who Won?)

Originally posted by ruthless49er:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
This is brought to you by....The Truth Hurts!!!!

According to Andrew Brandt's article on the National Football Post, I am right. Both sides made concessions, and both sides won battles on this contract. Brandt knows his stuff. He is a former salary cap administrator for an NFL team, and his breakdown was excellent.

Here is the pasted information at the conclusion. Many others have attached the link throughout this thread:

The Wait: The offer on the table for Parker and Crabtree of a couple days ago was:

Five years, $20M, $16M guaranteed.

The final deal is:

Six years, $32M ($28M over the first five), $17M guaranteed.

Analysis: Many have speculated that Crabtree took the same deal he was being offered for weeks, if not months, by the team. Parker and Crabtree may have made $8M over the next five years with their trip to San Francisco yesterday.

Hopefully the above data points out the strengths and weaknesses of this deal from both sides. It was a win for the team on some things and a win for the player on others, a deal that neither side feels great about. That usually means it is a good deal for both sides.

This was quite a saga, with a final face-to-face meeting spurred by a chance meeting between 49ers president and owner Jed York and MC Hammer at a social function. Only in the NFL

I'm sorry I have not been able to respond to some that have been claiming "victory" the last couple days, and have attempted to attack my position that both sides would win.

I guess, once again, these individuals who hope for nothing more for me to be wrong..... are wrong, and I....am right. What a shocker!!!

Cheers.

P.S. Eric Heitmann is still a good football player!!!!

Fact: The amount of guaranteed money that Crabtree is receiving is less than the #9 pick, but more than the 11th pick.

Fact: The annual salary that Crabtree will receive, even if pro-rated for him missing 1/4 of the year this year, is less than what Raji will receive if Raji plays more than 35% of the defensive snaps in ANY season, which is virtual certainty.

Fact: In order to surpass Raji's base compensation, Crabtree has to make at least one pro-bowl in one season and play 80%+ of the offensive snaps in another in the next 3 years.

Fact: BJ Raji will hit free agency a year before Crabtree does, unless Crabtree reaches the aforementioned escalators.

Fact: There were a variety of reports that indicated that the Niners would go up to $1 of Raji's contract, but would not exceed it. You referenced this a couple of days ago.

Rumor: Parker was seeking a more lucrative contract than DHB's.

Fact: Parker did not come close to achieving that.

Analysis: In every reasonable way, Crabtree was paid according to his slot, and would have to reach extremely unlikely goals in order to exceed it. Considering Parker's goals of exceeding DHB's contract, and the Niner's goals of staying within the slot, the Niners are the clear victor.

Did the Niners move up within the slot? Yes, of course. But in comparison to the concessions that Parker made, they're minimal.

One more thing...

Fact: I wonder how long it took for you to find someone to agree with you. I hope you feel validated.

Wow MD for reals im starting to think maybe these guys might not have been all the way wrong about you. You did say youd admit you were wrong and you refuse to do so. Ok if you really wish to hold to that point how about admitting you were wrong for calling out ther niners management as..inept, clueless etc etc. saying quite emphatically that Micheal Crabtree will NEVER play for the niners. this year or any other. Maybe people in general should quit making predictions one way or the other. How bout we have more analysis posts and less opinion posts from erryone. that might make NT more bearable.

Let's go through your statements.

First, I did call out the Niners' management for being blindsided by Crabtree asking for money outside the slot. This should have been common sense. The team seemed unprepared for a big contract offer than Crabtree would ask for, something I predicted on draft day. That is why I projected the signing to take place on August 15, more than two weeks after training camp started. About a handful of people agreed with me that he would not sign by start of camp, and people roundly criticized my prediction.

I have never stated that Crabtree will NEVER play for the Niners. My last opinion, which was asked by another poster a week ago, was a 50-50 shot.

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by AmpLee:
You were clamoring for Crabtree to get paid out of slot -- DHB money. Not only is his deal within slot, it's nothing close to DHB money. It's comical how you try and spin this to say you were right.

I never stated he should receive DHB money. You may check any of my posts. My argument is that he deserved consideration for money outside the slot.

And he got paid within the slot, so I guess that means you were wrong then.

Only in guaranteed money, which was my prediction.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
If you read the article by Brandt, someone agrees with me. An expert in the cap.

Only because you've shifted the paradigm.

All along, you asserted that Crabtree deserved a contract that was outside of his slotted position, that the 49ers were being obtuse in attempting to maintain the slot while dealing with a player in a "unique" situation like Crabtree, and that he deserved to make more money than DHB. You also asserted that Parker would be able to achieve these means, or close to them, by taking advantage of an inexperienced and inept 49er front office.

By those standards, which are the standards that YOU have been espousing all along, Parker fell well short, and the Niners came out the clear victors.

Brandt properly points out that this contract is reasonable for both sides (within the context of an unreasonable rookie structure), yet he hasn't established the false paradigm that you have over the last couple of months, using DHB as the measuring stick. You're now using nebulous phrases like "unique contract" (whatever that means) to point toward you being right all along.

You can always claim to be right if you shift your standards after the fact, which is exactly what you've done.

[ Edited by LA9erFan on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:05:16 ]

Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.




[ Edited by FILTHpigskin on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:03:12 ]

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by AmpLee:
You were clamoring for Crabtree to get paid out of slot -- DHB money. Not only is his deal within slot, it's nothing close to DHB money. It's comical how you try and spin this to say you were right.

I never stated he should receive DHB money. You may check any of my posts. My argument is that he deserved consideration for money outside the slot.

And he got paid within the slot, so I guess that means you were wrong then.

Only in guaranteed money, which was my prediction.

Misleading at best. If Raji plays 35% of the defensive snaps in any season over the duration of his contract, his base salary will exceed Crabtree's as well. Reaching that is a virtual certainty.

Crabtree is slotted at #10 in both guaranteed money and base money, and he will have to wait an additional year for free agency.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
If you read the article by Brandt, someone agrees with me. An expert in the cap.

Only because you've shifted the paradigm.

All along, you asserted that Crabtree deserved a contract that was outside of his slotted position, that the 49ers were being obtuse in attempting to maintain the slot while dealing with a player in a "unique" situation like Crabtree, and that he deserved to make more money than DHB. You also asserted that Parker would be able to achieve these means, or close to them, by taking advantage of an inexperienced and inept 49er front office.

By those standards, which are the standards that YOU have been espousing all along, Parker fell well short, and the Niners came out the clear victors.

Brandt properly points out that this contract is reasonable for both sides (within the context of an unreasonable rookie structure), yet he hasn't established the false paradigm that you have over the last couple of months, using DHB as the measuring stick. You're now using nebulous phrases like "unique contract" (whatever that means) to point toward you being right all along.

You can always claim to be right if you shift your standards after the fact, which is exactly what you've done.

This. (Said far better than I could have).

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.

Why does anyone care what this guy thinks? Most vets on the board already knows that he's a egotistic fraud. Most including myself have no respect for this guy and won't take him seriously. Just ignore him. If not, he may run to a mod and cry to have you banned.

[ Edited by kronik on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:13:01 ]

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.

Why does anyone care what this guy thinks? Most vets on the board already knows that he's a egotistic fraud. Most including myself have no respect for this guy and won't take him seriously. Just ignore him. If not, he may run to a mod and cry to have you banned.

I HAD a great deal of respect for him. It is gone.

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.

Not always right. I'd be happy to list the times I have been wrong on this board. However, if you want to kiss the ground, that is fine by me.

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.

Why does anyone care what this guy thinks? Most vets on the board already knows that he's a egotistic fraud. Most including myself have no respect for this guy and won't take him seriously. Just ignore him. If not, he may run to a mod and cry to have you banned.

Everyone knows that you have attacked me over the years (mostly after I showed the board your four factual errors in the Bryant Johnson-Arnaz Battle post last year..the same one that you eventually altered, and agreed that I was right and you were wrong), so for you to call me a fraud is...nothing.

I knew you would re-appear to attack.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
If you read the article by Brandt, someone agrees with me. An expert in the cap.

Only because you've shifted the paradigm.

All along, you asserted that Crabtree deserved a contract that was outside of his slotted position, that the 49ers were being obtuse in attempting to maintain the slot while dealing with a player in a "unique" situation like Crabtree, and that he deserved to make more money than DHB. You also asserted that Parker would be able to achieve these means, or close to them, by taking advantage of an inexperienced and inept 49er front office.

By those standards, which are the standards that YOU have been espousing all along, Parker fell well short, and the Niners came out the clear victors.

Brandt properly points out that this contract is reasonable for both sides (within the context of an unreasonable rookie structure), yet he hasn't established the false paradigm that you have over the last couple of months, using DHB as the measuring stick. You're now using nebulous phrases like "unique contract" (whatever that means) to point toward you being right all along.

You can always claim to be right if you shift your standards after the fact, which is exactly what you've done.

The first part of your paragraph is correct (if this isn't a unique contract and unique situation, then what is?), but I never stated that Parker would achieve numbers beyond DHB. Let's be fair.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.

Why does anyone care what this guy thinks? Most vets on the board already knows that he's a egotistic fraud. Most including myself have no respect for this guy and won't take him seriously. Just ignore him. If not, he may run to a mod and cry to have you banned.

I HAD a great deal of respect for him. It is gone.

It will resurface. People are just emotional right now. Many desperately want to claim a total victory by the Niners, but in the end, both sides won, and both sides lost, which is what Brandt stated.

It is just a contract.

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.

Why does anyone care what this guy thinks? Most vets on the board already knows that he's a egotistic fraud. Most including myself have no respect for this guy and won't take him seriously. Just ignore him. If not, he may run to a mod and cry to have you banned.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
This is brought to you by....The Truth Hurts!!!!

According to Andrew Brandt's article on the National Football Post, I am right. Both sides made concessions, and both sides won battles on this contract. Brandt knows his stuff. He is a former salary cap administrator for an NFL team, and his breakdown was excellent.

Here is the pasted information at the conclusion. Many others have attached the link throughout this thread:

The Wait: The offer on the table for Parker and Crabtree of a couple days ago was:

Five years, $20M, $16M guaranteed.

The final deal is:

Six years, $32M ($28M over the first five), $17M guaranteed.

Analysis: Many have speculated that Crabtree took the same deal he was being offered for weeks, if not months, by the team. Parker and Crabtree may have made $8M over the next five years with their trip to San Francisco yesterday.

Hopefully the above data points out the strengths and weaknesses of this deal from both sides. It was a win for the team on some things and a win for the player on others, a deal that neither side feels great about. That usually means it is a good deal for both sides.

This was quite a saga, with a final face-to-face meeting spurred by a chance meeting between 49ers president and owner Jed York and MC Hammer at a social function. Only in the NFL

I'm sorry I have not been able to respond to some that have been claiming "victory" the last couple days, and have attempted to attack my position that both sides would win.

I guess, once again, these individuals who hope for nothing more for me to be wrong..... are wrong, and I....am right. What a shocker!!!

Cheers.

P.S. Eric Heitmann is still a good football player!!!!

Fact: The amount of guaranteed money that Crabtree is receiving is less than the #9 pick, but more than the 11th pick.

Fact: The annual salary that Crabtree will receive, even if pro-rated for him missing 1/4 of the year this year, is less than what Raji will receive if Raji plays more than 35% of the defensive snaps in ANY season, which is virtual certainty.

Fact: In order to surpass Raji's base compensation, Crabtree has to make at least one pro-bowl in one season and play 80%+ of the offensive snaps in another in the next 3 years.

Fact: BJ Raji will hit free agency a year before Crabtree does, unless Crabtree reaches the aforementioned escalators.

Fact: There were a variety of reports that indicated that the Niners would go up to $1 of Raji's contract, but would not exceed it. You referenced this a couple of days ago.

Rumor: Parker was seeking a more lucrative contract than DHB's.

Fact: Parker did not come close to achieving that.

Analysis: In every reasonable way, Crabtree was paid according to his slot, and would have to reach extremely unlikely goals in order to exceed it. Considering Parker's goals of exceeding DHB's contract, and the Niner's goals of staying within the slot, the Niners are the clear victor.

Did the Niners move up within the slot? Yes, of course. But in comparison to the concessions that Parker made, they're minimal.

One more thing...

Fact: I wonder how long it took for you to find someone to agree with you. I hope you feel validated.

If the agent doesn't show up at the press conference that is usually a BIG sign that he lost that battle. If he would have gotten the contract they wanted he would have been there to show his face. It's that simple. Don't Nuke it.

Based on yearly averages, the Niners landed Crabtree in the upper end of the #10 slot when looking at plausible outcome of the escalators in the Crabtree and Raji deals. That much is obvious if analyzing this by comparing apples to apples.

I'm sure Parker got some concessions that were important to him, but in the end the Niners did what they set out to do.

I'm still ticked that this deal didn't get done in July. This is where I see genuine bad faith from Parker in that I believe he was counting on gaining leverage by virtue of a poor start by the Niners and when that didn't happen he had to come into town with hat in hand and negotiate a deal that could have been done much earlier.