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49ers vs. Crabtree (Contract - Who Won?)

49ers vs. Crabtree (Contract - Who Won?)

Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by domesik:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

Simply unbelievable.

Come on bro, you didn't really think MD would admit to being wrong. It's just not in his personality. MadDog, I'm on 49ers ecstacy right now, so I love all things 49ers, including all the fans, including you.....

I love you man.

In the end, as I predicted, he is not man enough to admit when he is wrong (again)..

Let it go. This forum is his life. If he fails in here he fails in life. Not trying to make fun of him it just is what it is. The proof is in the pudding.

MMM pudding
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by domesik:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

Simply unbelievable.

Come on bro, you didn't really think MD would admit to being wrong. It's just not in his personality. MadDog, I'm on 49ers ecstacy right now, so I love all things 49ers, including all the fans, including you.....

I love you man.

In the end, as I predicted, he is not man enough to admit when he is wrong (again)..

Let it go. This forum is his life. If he fails in here he fails in life. Not trying to make fun of him it just is what it is. The proof is in the pudding.

MMM pudding

I love it when my wife mixes whipped cream in chocolate pudding. That is the s**t. Then she puts M&M's on top.
Originally posted by excelsior:
I believe the 49ers made a fool of themselves. They are paying for a wasted year. He will not perform at the level he would have if he had been in camp all season and participated in the first four games.

The organization now appears to reward selfish divas, encouraging others on the team to act in similar fashion in the years ahead.

Some have said he was the best talent in the draft this year --- well they said that about Alex Smith too.

Finally, for those who believe Singletary will keep this kid in line, I am not so sure. It appears to have worked with Vernon Davis, but the year is young. Crabtree may be different. Sing's appraoch may not work, especially if Crabtree's true motivation is to get a contract in place, then become such a jackass that the 49ers are pressured to trade him to a high glamor team like Dallas.

I may be a buzzkiller, but my radar detects trouble.


I think your radar is jammed.





The impression I got from the Press Conference today is that the kid is painfully shy . . . Singletary noticed that and shielded him a bit. I thought Singletary was very impressive today, saying ALL the right things a striking the appropriate tone.

Crabtree may indeed be a problem, I don't know. But even so I'm pretty certain that the Niner locker room is way too strong to be effected negatively by a single Rookie.
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Originally posted by excelsior:
I believe the 49ers made a fool of themselves. They are paying for a wasted year. He will not perform at the level he would have if he had been in camp all season and participated in the first four games.

The organization now appears to reward selfish divas, encouraging others on the team to act in similar fashion in the years ahead.

Some have said he was the best talent in the draft this year --- well they said that about Alex Smith too.

Finally, for those who believe Singletary will keep this kid in line, I am not so sure. It appears to have worked with Vernon Davis, but the year is young. Crabtree may be different. Sing's appraoch may not work, especially if Crabtree's true motivation is to get a contract in place, then become such a jackass that the 49ers are pressured to trade him to a high glamor team like Dallas.

I may be a buzzkiller, but my radar detects trouble.


I think your radar is jammed.





The impression I got from the Press Conference today is that the kid is painfully shy . . . Singletary noticed that and shielded him a bit. I thought Singletary was very impressive today, saying ALL the right things a striking the appropriate tone.

Crabtree may indeed be a problem, I don't know. But even so I'm pretty certain that the Niner locker room is way too strong to be effected negatively by a single Rookie.

If Crabtree would have been drafted by Nolan I would have been worried about a bad apple (no pun intended). In the locker room atmosphere Singletary has built? Not worried at all.
  • demarco2080
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by KRS-1:
SERIOUSLY TISSER ? SERIOUSLY ?

HOW CAN ANYONE DETERMINE A WINNER WITHOUT KNOWING THE ACTUAL DETAILS YET ?




God! Youre a crybaby. Wahhhh!!! Crabtree caved and now people are picking on me!! Wahhhhh!!! I was dead wrong for months and now I look like an idiot. Wahhhh!!!
  • demarco2080
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by domesik:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

Simply unbelievable.

Come on bro, you didn't really think MD would admit to being wrong. It's just not in his personality. MadDog, I'm on 49ers ecstacy right now, so I love all things 49ers, including all the fans, including you.....

I love you man.

In the end, as I predicted, he is not man enough to admit when he is wrong (again)..

Let it go. This forum is his life. If he fails in here he fails in life. Not trying to make fun of him it just is what it is. The proof is in the pudding.

MMM pudding

I love it when my wife mixes whipped cream in chocolate pudding. That is the s**t. Then she puts M&M's on top.

You get pudding?!?!
49ers won this because of the language inserted to prevent future hold outs. I've never heard of this new language in contracts but I guess Parag had them:

from Florio's article

And unless Crabtree meets the performance thresholds necessary to void the sixth year, he'll be stuck under contract for another year at a base salary of only $4 million.

There's one other area of concern with the deal. Crabtree, per the source, received no option bonus. Instead, he has significant money tied to a fairly new device known as a "discretionary salary advance," which unlike an opition bonus is subject to forfeiture if Crabtree decides in a year or two that he wants to hold out for a better deal. (We're also told that the 49ers have included language that would make certain escalators subject to forfeiture, too.)
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by domesik:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

Simply unbelievable.

Come on bro, you didn't really think MD would admit to being wrong. It's just not in his personality. MadDog, I'm on 49ers ecstacy right now, so I love all things 49ers, including all the fans, including you.....

I love you man.

In the end, as I predicted, he is not man enough to admit when he is wrong (again)..

Let it go. This forum is his life. If he fails in here he fails in life. Not trying to make fun of him it just is what it is. The proof is in the pudding.

MMM pudding

I love it when my wife mixes whipped cream in chocolate pudding. That is the s**t. Then she puts M&M's on top.

Thats not whipped cream
Originally posted by demarco2080:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
SERIOUSLY TISSER ? SERIOUSLY ?

HOW CAN ANYONE DETERMINE A WINNER WITHOUT KNOWING THE ACTUAL DETAILS YET ?




God! Youre a crybaby. Wahhhh!!! Crabtree caved and now people are picking on me!! Wahhhhh!!! I was dead wrong for months and now I look like an idiot. Wahhhh!!!

LOL. He was saying that we don't know the details of the contract (which we didn't at the time) so we couldn't make a determination either way. Being that there's no complaining in his post, your post makes absolutely no sense, and is just a sarcastic way of whining and crying about his previous opinions...which is exactly what you're chastising him for in the first place.
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by domesik:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

Simply unbelievable.

Come on bro, you didn't really think MD would admit to being wrong. It's just not in his personality. MadDog, I'm on 49ers ecstacy right now, so I love all things 49ers, including all the fans, including you.....

I love you man.

In the end, as I predicted, he is not man enough to admit when he is wrong (again)..

Let it go. This forum is his life. If he fails in here he fails in life. Not trying to make fun of him it just is what it is. The proof is in the pudding.

MMM pudding

I love it when my wife mixes whipped cream in chocolate pudding. That is the s**t. Then she puts M&M's on top.

Thats not whipped cream

Its not?
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
I'm still a little confused on the contract breakdown.

He has 17 million n guaranteed money. And can gain an extra 8 million with a highly unlikely (but possible if he's a beast) 8 million excellerator to bring it up to 40 million total. But what exactly is the other 15 million? Is this signing bonus stuff or what?

The other 15 million is base salary, or yearly salary. So hypothetically, it could be...

2009: 1 million
2010: 2 million
2011: 2 million
2012: 3 million
2013: 3 million
2014: 4 million

Those numbers aren't accurate, just used for the purpose of explanation.

So then he still got more than Raji since Raji only has 22.5 million(not including escalators).

If you take out the 6th year to make all things equal it's 5 years 28 million (17 guaranteed) as apposed to 5 years 22.5 million (18 million guaranteed) with a 6 million escalator. Plus Crabtree has missed 4 games.

It sure seems to me like no one won or lost and they pretty much met in the middle.

From what I understand, Raji's escalator is very reasonably attainable, whereas Crabtree's isn't. Plus, the sixth year is a big deal because he'll be signed for a base salary of $4M...which means another year before he can get a big second contract.

All that being said, I was under the impression that DHB was the benchmark, not Raji.

You're exaclty right on the Raji deal.

Raji's base deal is 5 Years at $22.9 Million, but he has a "likely to earned" incentive that pays him a one-time $5.22 Million bonus if he plays more than 35% of the defensive snaps in ANY given year of the contract, so basically if Raji is still breathing his base contract value is actually 5 years at $28.12 Million, or $5.62 Million per year.

Crabtree's base is 6 years, $32.0 Million with "unlikely to be earned" incentives triggered by Pro-Bowl appearances. So Crabtree's base will likely remain 6 years, $32.0 Million or $5.33 Million per year, or giving the benefit of the doubt, we could use the pro-rated math of 5.75 years (since he's in the building and working after 25% of the season) which would be $5.57 Million per year.

So, with a straight face, I say the Niners held the slot in every practical way.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5210

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135

Thanks for breaking down the numbers. It looks like the front office held strong and stayed within the range they had laid out all along.

I think Crabtree wins. He came to his senses and finally signed. 32 million reasons on why this was a win/win no matter how it turned out for him.

The Niner front office wins because they finally signed the player they wanted at the fair slotted value.

The fans win as the Niners finally have a true #1 threat.

Parker loses. This holdout resulted in no gains for Crabtree that could of been had had he been willing to negotiate earlier in the process. I think owners will be more willing to call his bluff on future holdouts and possibly cost him some clients.
Tie for now, revisit at end of contract. If Crabtree does good, he'll get another lucrative contract and he performed- tie. If Crabtree is a bust, he makes this money, we don't get our return- lose.
lol who voted Crabtree??

when his agent got caught in bed with other teams, he changed his stance dramatically. especially now that the NFL has launched an investigation, ruining any chances of their plan working. not to mention the 49ers are winning, so he probably doesnt mind signing here.

the 49ers won this deal big time. when an agent declines to comment on a deal after its signed, it usually means hes upset with it. which is clearly the case. crabtree not only didnt get the money he was asking for, he got a 6th year tacked on, which is usually unheard of for early picks.

and the 49ers got him to sign the dotted line by including incentives that would require a highly improbably task to activate. making the pro bowl twice in the 3 seasons after this one.

Crabtrees camp flew back into SF with their tails between their legs, Parker knowing his plans for 40 mil guaranteed were foiled, and regretfully knowing this deal was the best money he would ever see on the table.
Originally posted by Niners99:
lol who voted Crabtree??

when his agent got caught in bed with other teams, he changed his stance dramatically. especially now that the NFL has launched an investigation, ruining any chances of their plan working. not to mention the 49ers are winning, so he probably doesnt mind signing here.

the 49ers won this deal big time. when an agent declines to comment on a deal after its signed, it usually means hes upset with it. which is clearly the case. crabtree not only didnt get the money he was asking for, he got a 6th year tacked on, which is usually unheard of for early picks.

and the 49ers got him to sign the dotted line by including incentives that would require a highly improbably task to activate. making the pro bowl twice in the 3 seasons after this one.

Crabtrees camp flew back into SF with their tails between their legs, Parker knowing his plans for 40 mil guaranteed were foiled, and regretfully knowing this deal was the best money he would ever see on the table.

  • skitbox
  • Info N/A
Of course he had too, to save face in front of everyone. Obviously, they both had their PR agent's involved in the whole fiasco. Crabtree said, "I never listened to the media"

Bold face lie! He said he watched every game of the Niners closely, but let all the negotiations be handled by his agent. If he watched the games, you mean he never heard one time what the media said about him during those games. Every week during pre-game stuff, and half-time I heard some nonsense about Crabtree. He also said this was a humbling experience. Humbling for what reason, if he didn't know what the outside perception was?

My point is, there is the obvious PR cover up he and the Niners had to deal with. I'm happy he is here, but the Niners brass won this battle. Scot said, "It probably didn't hurt that we were 3-1." Again, Crabtree knew what was going on and didn't have a leg to stand on, realizing the humbling experience was that his initial top 5 money demand was retarded in the first place.

I don't care what Crabtree said, he made those demands and caved in when the media pressure and fan pressure was too much. He was taking a beating, and the best bet was for him to fire his agent and save himself a horrible embarrassment.