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Singletary Encourages Hill to OPEN IT UP!

Originally posted by carl:
Originally posted by servegmo:
yeah I like the running mentality also... today I was watching the game on NFL network rewind and in the drive that we put 3 points in the second half before the punt return for the td... we were running the ball hard, if we can get consistent with that type of running game, the play action and the passing game will benefit tremendously...

I like where we are right know we have to continue to grow after all this is a new offence and we have to take it one game at a time...

go nienrs

I'm very curious why the 49ers are so inconsistent at running the ball. It's frustrating.

I would say it has to do with the blocking schemes that the OLine are using. They block better when it is straight blocking, but there seems to be a lot of useless pulling going on.
  • carl
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 3,754
Originally posted by FourNine49:
Originally posted by carl:
Originally posted by servegmo:
yeah I like the running mentality also... today I was watching the game on NFL network rewind and in the drive that we put 3 points in the second half before the punt return for the td... we were running the ball hard, if we can get consistent with that type of running game, the play action and the passing game will benefit tremendously...

I like where we are right know we have to continue to grow after all this is a new offence and we have to take it one game at a time...

go nienrs

I'm very curious why the 49ers are so inconsistent at running the ball. It's frustrating.

oh I would say they're SUPER consistent with running the ball. In fact, it's so consistent that Raye calls the same damn run plays up the gut

LOL. I should have said, "inconsistently productive."
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dust-7:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up

They might have tried that in the last 49er's series in the Vikings game, and the AZ game, and let's not hope also in the Rams or Falcons game, etc.

Singletary sez one thing - but he doesn't necessarily mean it. He says - I want to win. I want winners. But when faced with an opportunity to finish off an opponent in AZ and MN, he whiffed. He played it safe on both sides of the ball for awhile in the latter, and on offense in the former. That can't continue.

I remember Nolan sounded in command and as if he understood the game - first year or so. But as the losses started to mount, and you were getting the same gas from him, it didn't sound so knowledgable or so reassuring anymore. Towards the end, it was actually painful to listen to his same-old speech after a loss.

I hope it never gets that way with Singletary. I thought he'd make a GREAT coach. And the players have rallied to him like they didn't to Nolan. But I'm starting to see a do as I say not as I do, trend.

Anyone think I'm wrong?

I agree in a way. We used to always get upset at Nolan for playing it safe and putting the onus on the D to finish the game off. That's exactly what Singletary has done in game 1 and game 3. It worked the first time, so I can see why he thought it would again (and it sure as hell almost did).

I think the main problem with Nolan was how stubborn he was to making a change...stay the course seemed to be his motto even when the obvious solution was right in front of him. Lets see how Singletary plays it out from here on out. I don't see him as the kind of coach who is resistant to change. He knows he has a good defense, but he and Jimmy Raye both have to realize that the offense is going to have to put some games away too.

I expect that if the same situation comes up again, we'll be more likely to go for that game clinching drive instead of leaving it up to the defense.

Singletary realizes that without Gore the offense is nowhere near as strong as our defense is. It is plain to see that he trusts the defense more than the offense. If we had a big time stud at QB, and an o line that was better at pass blocking, maybe the coaches would take more chances. As it stands now, I feel more confident that the defense will win games than I would having to rely on the offense.

I think it's obvious that our D is the strong side. That's really not the point, though. When the other team has the ball...they can score. When we have the ball...they can't. I think from here on out, we'll try to win games with defense but if we're in a position to put the game away with a first down, we won't rely on 3 straight HB dives.
Originally posted by WestCoast:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I found an interesting vid containing a small segment from "Coach Speak" on Fox Sports (via youtube) featuring Singletary, and how he feels about Shaun Hill in relation to the offensive system/passing game.

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up (that Mike is fully confident within his QB), and that Shaun (himself) is allowed to do so whenever he feels comfortable enough to spread the field.

So altogether, it really sounds like we're finally going to air it out a lot more, and put more trust into Hill to close games (Singletary may be stubborn, but he never makes the same mistake twice if it costs the team a game).


Oh geez, if that was truly the case all along, then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?

Don't even mention Raye's name in regards to this cause I will laugh you right out of the conversation. Gimme something logical please, cause the stats just ain't normal.

~Ceadder

Someone has a perchance for hyperbole. Hill has far from the worst stats of any QB in the NFL. Ever heard of the names JaMarcus Russel, Jake Delhome, Byron Leftwich, Brady Quinn, Mark Bulger, Matthew Stafford, David Garrard, Jason Campbell..etc. etc.?

Ummmmm let's see here, no $h|t?

The point is, that Shaun ranks in the bottom of the list in every statistical category. Ranks right with the aforementioned names no less. That's nothing to be proud about. In fact I think that it would get some of us a bit up in arms over that.

But hey if he satisfies you and you can smoke a cigarette when he's finished, who am I to point this stuff out. So did you learn ANYTHING when you were on NFL.com, besides that Shaun is not at the bottom of the list? Or was this little experiment lost on you?

~Ceadder

I'm not sure why you are angry. Bad day?

I was merely pointing out that he was not the worst. You stated not that Hill was one of the worst, but "then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?"

In fact, he isn't even one of the worst. He is ranked 11th of all QB's in QB rating witih 89.9 out of 32 teams. That is pretty good.

He has only thrown 1 interception, which was mostly the WR's fault for giving up on a route. He is a game manager in a run first offense who steps up when he has too. He isn't Drew Brees, but don't paint him as being worse than he is.

You said you wanted facts, and there they are. Hill's numbers are normal for a run first team and better than many QB's that are in pass first offenses.

That being said, it doesn't seem like you are looking for a conversation, but a reason to be angry. So I am done here. I hope you feel better.

ceadder got pwnd!

I don't see much pwnage there but hey it's in the eye of the beholder, right?

Fact is the QB rating is not the end all be all. Like in this instance.

He's had 82 attempts over 3 games. That's 27 attempts a game.

Completed 52. That's 17 completions over these past 3 games.

While we're a RUNNING team, great bully for us that he hasn't given the ball away. Oh wait Gore is out for 3 games at least so he's going to be counted on more to get the ball to the Receivers.

So the numbers will be LOWER not higher, based on the stats. Because he's completed 2/3 of his attempts and because teams will Defense the short to medium routes and make Hill beat them deep.

"What about Coffee?" What about him? He's a backup thrust into the Starting role. It doesn't mean anything at the moment. Not until he shows that he's a capable Back.

And angry? I don't get the inference but I'm not an angry individual. But again eye of the beholder an all you know.


~Ceadder
Hill will become a passing juggernaut!















Okay, I cracked and went crazy for a second.
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by WestCoast:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I found an interesting vid containing a small segment from "Coach Speak" on Fox Sports (via youtube) featuring Singletary, and how he feels about Shaun Hill in relation to the offensive system/passing game.

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up (that Mike is fully confident within his QB), and that Shaun (himself) is allowed to do so whenever he feels comfortable enough to spread the field.

So altogether, it really sounds like we're finally going to air it out a lot more, and put more trust into Hill to close games (Singletary may be stubborn, but he never makes the same mistake twice if it costs the team a game).


Oh geez, if that was truly the case all along, then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?

Don't even mention Raye's name in regards to this cause I will laugh you right out of the conversation. Gimme something logical please, cause the stats just ain't normal.

~Ceadder

Someone has a perchance for hyperbole. Hill has far from the worst stats of any QB in the NFL. Ever heard of the names JaMarcus Russel, Jake Delhome, Byron Leftwich, Brady Quinn, Mark Bulger, Matthew Stafford, David Garrard, Jason Campbell..etc. etc.?

Ummmmm let's see here, no $h|t?

The point is, that Shaun ranks in the bottom of the list in every statistical category. Ranks right with the aforementioned names no less. That's nothing to be proud about. In fact I think that it would get some of us a bit up in arms over that.

But hey if he satisfies you and you can smoke a cigarette when he's finished, who am I to point this stuff out. So did you learn ANYTHING when you were on NFL.com, besides that Shaun is not at the bottom of the list? Or was this little experiment lost on you?

~Ceadder

I'm not sure why you are angry. Bad day?

I was merely pointing out that he was not the worst. You stated not that Hill was one of the worst, but "then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?"

In fact, he isn't even one of the worst. He is ranked 11th of all QB's in QB rating witih 89.9 out of 32 teams. That is pretty good.

He has only thrown 1 interception, which was mostly the WR's fault for giving up on a route. He is a game manager in a run first offense who steps up when he has too. He isn't Drew Brees, but don't paint him as being worse than he is.

You said you wanted facts, and there they are. Hill's numbers are normal for a run first team and better than many QB's that are in pass first offenses.

That being said, it doesn't seem like you are looking for a conversation, but a reason to be angry. So I am done here. I hope you feel better.

ceadder got pwnd!

I don't see much pwnage there but hey it's in the eye of the beholder, right?

Fact is the QB rating is not the end all be all. Like in this instance.

He's had 82 attempts over 3 games. That's 27 attempts a game.

Completed 52. That's 17 completions over these past 3 games.

While we're a RUNNING team, great bully for us that he hasn't given the ball away. Oh wait Gore is out for 3 games at least so he's going to be counted on more to get the ball to the Receivers.

So the numbers will be LOWER not higher, based on the stats. Because he's completed 2/3 of his attempts and because teams will Defense the short to medium routes and make Hill beat them deep.

"What about Coffee?" What about him? He's a backup thrust into the Starting role. It doesn't mean anything at the moment. Not until he shows that he's a capable Back.

And angry? I don't get the inference but I'm not an angry individual. But again eye of the beholder an all you know.


~Ceadder

Fact of the matter is we're winning with Hill. So that's all that matters. He didn't lose that game at Minnesota. Take away that return for a TD or that fluke azz pass at the end and it's a whole different story.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dust-7:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up

They might have tried that in the last 49er's series in the Vikings game, and the AZ game, and let's not hope also in the Rams or Falcons game, etc.

Singletary sez one thing - but he doesn't necessarily mean it. He says - I want to win. I want winners. But when faced with an opportunity to finish off an opponent in AZ and MN, he whiffed. He played it safe on both sides of the ball for awhile in the latter, and on offense in the former. That can't continue.

I remember Nolan sounded in command and as if he understood the game - first year or so. But as the losses started to mount, and you were getting the same gas from him, it didn't sound so knowledgable or so reassuring anymore. Towards the end, it was actually painful to listen to his same-old speech after a loss.

I hope it never gets that way with Singletary. I thought he'd make a GREAT coach. And the players have rallied to him like they didn't to Nolan. But I'm starting to see a do as I say not as I do, trend.

Anyone think I'm wrong?

I agree in a way. We used to always get upset at Nolan for playing it safe and putting the onus on the D to finish the game off. That's exactly what Singletary has done in game 1 and game 3. It worked the first time, so I can see why he thought it would again (and it sure as hell almost did).

I think the main problem with Nolan was how stubborn he was to making a change...stay the course seemed to be his motto even when the obvious solution was right in front of him. Lets see how Singletary plays it out from here on out. I don't see him as the kind of coach who is resistant to change. He knows he has a good defense, but he and Jimmy Raye both have to realize that the offense is going to have to put some games away too.

I expect that if the same situation comes up again, we'll be more likely to go for that game clinching drive instead of leaving it up to the defense.

Singletary realizes that without Gore the offense is nowhere near as strong as our defense is. It is plain to see that he trusts the defense more than the offense. If we had a big time stud at QB, and an o line that was better at pass blocking, maybe the coaches would take more chances. As it stands now, I feel more confident that the defense will win games than I would having to rely on the offense.

I think it's obvious that our D is the strong side. That's really not the point, though. When the other team has the ball...they can score. When we have the ball...they can't. I think from here on out, we'll try to win games with defense but if we're in a position to put the game away with a first down, we won't rely on 3 straight HB dives.

Agreed.
Originally posted by BigDaddy:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by WestCoast:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I found an interesting vid containing a small segment from "Coach Speak" on Fox Sports (via youtube) featuring Singletary, and how he feels about Shaun Hill in relation to the offensive system/passing game.

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up (that Mike is fully confident within his QB), and that Shaun (himself) is allowed to do so whenever he feels comfortable enough to spread the field.

So altogether, it really sounds like we're finally going to air it out a lot more, and put more trust into Hill to close games (Singletary may be stubborn, but he never makes the same mistake twice if it costs the team a game).


Oh geez, if that was truly the case all along, then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?

Don't even mention Raye's name in regards to this cause I will laugh you right out of the conversation. Gimme something logical please, cause the stats just ain't normal.

~Ceadder

Someone has a perchance for hyperbole. Hill has far from the worst stats of any QB in the NFL. Ever heard of the names JaMarcus Russel, Jake Delhome, Byron Leftwich, Brady Quinn, Mark Bulger, Matthew Stafford, David Garrard, Jason Campbell..etc. etc.?

Ummmmm let's see here, no $h|t?

The point is, that Shaun ranks in the bottom of the list in every statistical category. Ranks right with the aforementioned names no less. That's nothing to be proud about. In fact I think that it would get some of us a bit up in arms over that.

But hey if he satisfies you and you can smoke a cigarette when he's finished, who am I to point this stuff out. So did you learn ANYTHING when you were on NFL.com, besides that Shaun is not at the bottom of the list? Or was this little experiment lost on you?

~Ceadder

I'm not sure why you are angry. Bad day?

I was merely pointing out that he was not the worst. You stated not that Hill was one of the worst, but "then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?"

In fact, he isn't even one of the worst. He is ranked 11th of all QB's in QB rating witih 89.9 out of 32 teams. That is pretty good.

He has only thrown 1 interception, which was mostly the WR's fault for giving up on a route. He is a game manager in a run first offense who steps up when he has too. He isn't Drew Brees, but don't paint him as being worse than he is.

You said you wanted facts, and there they are. Hill's numbers are normal for a run first team and better than many QB's that are in pass first offenses.

That being said, it doesn't seem like you are looking for a conversation, but a reason to be angry. So I am done here. I hope you feel better.

ceadder got pwnd!

I don't see much pwnage there but hey it's in the eye of the beholder, right?

Fact is the QB rating is not the end all be all. Like in this instance.

He's had 82 attempts over 3 games. That's 27 attempts a game.

Completed 52. That's 17 completions over these past 3 games.

While we're a RUNNING team, great bully for us that he hasn't given the ball away. Oh wait Gore is out for 3 games at least so he's going to be counted on more to get the ball to the Receivers.

So the numbers will be LOWER not higher, based on the stats. Because he's completed 2/3 of his attempts and because teams will Defense the short to medium routes and make Hill beat them deep.

"What about Coffee?" What about him? He's a backup thrust into the Starting role. It doesn't mean anything at the moment. Not until he shows that he's a capable Back.

And angry? I don't get the inference but I'm not an angry individual. But again eye of the beholder an all you know.


~Ceadder

Fact of the matter is we're winning with Hill. So that's all that matters. He didn't lose that game at Minnesota. Take away that return for a TD or that fluke azz pass at the end and it's a whole different story.

Ummmm where did I say he lost us the game?

Hang on, lemme go over what I said "The QB rating is not the end all be all. Yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah..."

Nope never said it. You are reading something that wasn't even said.

But hey now that you mention taking things away, how bout we just take away the good things that happened too? Like the DEFENSE keeping this team in the freakin game? Remember that INT?

The point is that Hill is a custodial QB. We DON'T and won't have a Run game to hang our hat on because Gore is INJURED and that makes Hill the guy. He's got to get it done. If he can't then he should not have been named QB1 to start with. I guarantee that either Nate or Alex could have done the same thing that Hill did. I'm not out to pee in the man's Wheaties, I'm happy that he got us to 2-1. But if you HONESTLY take a step back and analyze it, that could be any of our guys and we'd be in the same position.

The fact is the Run game and the Defense have both stepped up over the last 3 games. I figure St. Louis to be a route(although certainly a trap game) so I'm not even going to take them into consideration unless Hill just melts down. Let's see what he does the next 2 games. Personally I don't feel that he should have been named QB1. He's a Backup in a starring role.

But I never, not once stated that he lost us that game. WOuld have been nice to have more production out of the spot but the play calling was also to blame. I also think that if Sing gave him his head the whole time then it is indeed on Hill and Raye isn't the scapegoat that people make him out to be.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by WestCoast:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I found an interesting vid containing a small segment from "Coach Speak" on Fox Sports (via youtube) featuring Singletary, and how he feels about Shaun Hill in relation to the offensive system/passing game.

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up (that Mike is fully confident within his QB), and that Shaun (himself) is allowed to do so whenever he feels comfortable enough to spread the field.

So altogether, it really sounds like we're finally going to air it out a lot more, and put more trust into Hill to close games (Singletary may be stubborn, but he never makes the same mistake twice if it costs the team a game).


Oh geez, if that was truly the case all along, then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?

Don't even mention Raye's name in regards to this cause I will laugh you right out of the conversation. Gimme something logical please, cause the stats just ain't normal.

~Ceadder

Someone has a perchance for hyperbole. Hill has far from the worst stats of any QB in the NFL. Ever heard of the names JaMarcus Russel, Jake Delhome, Byron Leftwich, Brady Quinn, Mark Bulger, Matthew Stafford, David Garrard, Jason Campbell..etc. etc.?

Ummmmm let's see here, no $h|t?

The point is, that Shaun ranks in the bottom of the list in every statistical category. Ranks right with the aforementioned names no less. That's nothing to be proud about. In fact I think that it would get some of us a bit up in arms over that.

But hey if he satisfies you and you can smoke a cigarette when he's finished, who am I to point this stuff out. So did you learn ANYTHING when you were on NFL.com, besides that Shaun is not at the bottom of the list? Or was this little experiment lost on you?

~Ceadder

I'm not sure why you are angry. Bad day?

I was merely pointing out that he was not the worst. You stated not that Hill was one of the worst, but "then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?"

In fact, he isn't even one of the worst. He is ranked 11th of all QB's in QB rating witih 89.9 out of 32 teams. That is pretty good.

He has only thrown 1 interception, which was mostly the WR's fault for giving up on a route. He is a game manager in a run first offense who steps up when he has too. He isn't Drew Brees, but don't paint him as being worse than he is.

You said you wanted facts, and there they are. Hill's numbers are normal for a run first team and better than many QB's that are in pass first offenses.

That being said, it doesn't seem like you are looking for a conversation, but a reason to be angry. So I am done here. I hope you feel better.

ceadder got pwnd!

I don't see much pwnage there but hey it's in the eye of the beholder, right?

Fact is the QB rating is not the end all be all. Like in this instance.

He's had 82 attempts over 3 games. That's 27 attempts a game.

Completed 52. That's 17 completions over these past 3 games.

While we're a RUNNING team, great bully for us that he hasn't given the ball away. Oh wait Gore is out for 3 games at least so he's going to be counted on more to get the ball to the Receivers.

So the numbers will be LOWER not higher, based on the stats. Because he's completed 2/3 of his attempts and because teams will Defense the short to medium routes and make Hill beat them deep.

"What about Coffee?" What about him? He's a backup thrust into the Starting role. It doesn't mean anything at the moment. Not until he shows that he's a capable Back.

And angry? I don't get the inference but I'm not an angry individual. But again eye of the beholder an all you know.


~Ceadder

He's 11th in passer rating.

Only 1 interception.

18th in yards per attempt.

16th in completion percentage.

That doesn't sound to me like one of the worst QBs in the NFL. It sounds to me like he's right in the middle of the pack. I don't really think you know what you're talking about!

Hater.
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by BigDaddy:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by WestCoast:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I found an interesting vid containing a small segment from "Coach Speak" on Fox Sports (via youtube) featuring Singletary, and how he feels about Shaun Hill in relation to the offensive system/passing game.

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up (that Mike is fully confident within his QB), and that Shaun (himself) is allowed to do so whenever he feels comfortable enough to spread the field.

So altogether, it really sounds like we're finally going to air it out a lot more, and put more trust into Hill to close games (Singletary may be stubborn, but he never makes the same mistake twice if it costs the team a game).


Oh geez, if that was truly the case all along, then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?

Don't even mention Raye's name in regards to this cause I will laugh you right out of the conversation. Gimme something logical please, cause the stats just ain't normal.

~Ceadder

Someone has a perchance for hyperbole. Hill has far from the worst stats of any QB in the NFL. Ever heard of the names JaMarcus Russel, Jake Delhome, Byron Leftwich, Brady Quinn, Mark Bulger, Matthew Stafford, David Garrard, Jason Campbell..etc. etc.?

Ummmmm let's see here, no $h|t?

The point is, that Shaun ranks in the bottom of the list in every statistical category. Ranks right with the aforementioned names no less. That's nothing to be proud about. In fact I think that it would get some of us a bit up in arms over that.

But hey if he satisfies you and you can smoke a cigarette when he's finished, who am I to point this stuff out. So did you learn ANYTHING when you were on NFL.com, besides that Shaun is not at the bottom of the list? Or was this little experiment lost on you?

~Ceadder

I'm not sure why you are angry. Bad day?

I was merely pointing out that he was not the worst. You stated not that Hill was one of the worst, but "then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?"

In fact, he isn't even one of the worst. He is ranked 11th of all QB's in QB rating witih 89.9 out of 32 teams. That is pretty good.

He has only thrown 1 interception, which was mostly the WR's fault for giving up on a route. He is a game manager in a run first offense who steps up when he has too. He isn't Drew Brees, but don't paint him as being worse than he is.

You said you wanted facts, and there they are. Hill's numbers are normal for a run first team and better than many QB's that are in pass first offenses.

That being said, it doesn't seem like you are looking for a conversation, but a reason to be angry. So I am done here. I hope you feel better.

ceadder got pwnd!

I don't see much pwnage there but hey it's in the eye of the beholder, right?

Fact is the QB rating is not the end all be all. Like in this instance.

He's had 82 attempts over 3 games. That's 27 attempts a game.

Completed 52. That's 17 completions over these past 3 games.

While we're a RUNNING team, great bully for us that he hasn't given the ball away. Oh wait Gore is out for 3 games at least so he's going to be counted on more to get the ball to the Receivers.

So the numbers will be LOWER not higher, based on the stats. Because he's completed 2/3 of his attempts and because teams will Defense the short to medium routes and make Hill beat them deep.

"What about Coffee?" What about him? He's a backup thrust into the Starting role. It doesn't mean anything at the moment. Not until he shows that he's a capable Back.

And angry? I don't get the inference but I'm not an angry individual. But again eye of the beholder an all you know.


~Ceadder

Fact of the matter is we're winning with Hill. So that's all that matters. He didn't lose that game at Minnesota. Take away that return for a TD or that fluke azz pass at the end and it's a whole different story.

Ummmm where did I say he lost us the game?

Hang on, lemme go over what I said "The QB rating is not the end all be all. Yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah..."

Nope never said it. You are reading something that wasn't even said.

But hey now that you mention taking things away, how bout we just take away the good things that happened too? Like the DEFENSE keeping this team in the freakin game? Remember that INT?

The point is that Hill is a custodial QB. We DON'T and won't have a Run game to hang our hat on because Gore is INJURED and that makes Hill the guy. He's got to get it done. If he can't then he should not have been named QB1 to start with. I guarantee that either Nate or Alex could have done the same thing that Hill did. I'm not out to pee in the man's Wheaties, I'm happy that he got us to 2-1. But if you HONESTLY take a step back and analyze it, that could be any of our guys and we'd be in the same position.

The fact is the Run game and the Defense have both stepped up over the last 3 games. I figure St. Louis to be a route(although certainly a trap game) so I'm not even going to take them into consideration unless Hill just melts down. Let's see what he does the next 2 games. Personally I don't feel that he should have been named QB1. He's a Backup in a starring role.

But I never, not once stated that he lost us that game. WOuld have been nice to have more production out of the spot but the play calling was also to blame. I also think that if Sing gave him his head the whole time then it is indeed on Hill and Raye isn't the scapegoat that people make him out to be.

~Ceadder

Hey cheddar, can i have that crystal ball? I need me some lotto numbers! You can't say either of the other two QBs would have done better or worse...
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by WestCoast:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I found an interesting vid containing a small segment from "Coach Speak" on Fox Sports (via youtube) featuring Singletary, and how he feels about Shaun Hill in relation to the offensive system/passing game.

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up (that Mike is fully confident within his QB), and that Shaun (himself) is allowed to do so whenever he feels comfortable enough to spread the field.

So altogether, it really sounds like we're finally going to air it out a lot more, and put more trust into Hill to close games (Singletary may be stubborn, but he never makes the same mistake twice if it costs the team a game).


Oh geez, if that was truly the case all along, then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?

Don't even mention Raye's name in regards to this cause I will laugh you right out of the conversation. Gimme something logical please, cause the stats just ain't normal.

~Ceadder

Someone has a perchance for hyperbole. Hill has far from the worst stats of any QB in the NFL. Ever heard of the names JaMarcus Russel, Jake Delhome, Byron Leftwich, Brady Quinn, Mark Bulger, Matthew Stafford, David Garrard, Jason Campbell..etc. etc.?

Ummmmm let's see here, no $h|t?

The point is, that Shaun ranks in the bottom of the list in every statistical category. Ranks right with the aforementioned names no less. That's nothing to be proud about. In fact I think that it would get some of us a bit up in arms over that.

But hey if he satisfies you and you can smoke a cigarette when he's finished, who am I to point this stuff out. So did you learn ANYTHING when you were on NFL.com, besides that Shaun is not at the bottom of the list? Or was this little experiment lost on you?

~Ceadder

I'm not sure why you are angry. Bad day?

I was merely pointing out that he was not the worst. You stated not that Hill was one of the worst, but "then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?"

In fact, he isn't even one of the worst. He is ranked 11th of all QB's in QB rating witih 89.9 out of 32 teams. That is pretty good.

He has only thrown 1 interception, which was mostly the WR's fault for giving up on a route. He is a game manager in a run first offense who steps up when he has too. He isn't Drew Brees, but don't paint him as being worse than he is.

You said you wanted facts, and there they are. Hill's numbers are normal for a run first team and better than many QB's that are in pass first offenses.

That being said, it doesn't seem like you are looking for a conversation, but a reason to be angry. So I am done here. I hope you feel better.

ceadder got pwnd!

I don't see much pwnage there but hey it's in the eye of the beholder, right?

Fact is the QB rating is not the end all be all. Like in this instance.

He's had 82 attempts over 3 games. That's 27 attempts a game.

Completed 52. That's 17 completions over these past 3 games.

While we're a RUNNING team, great bully for us that he hasn't given the ball away. Oh wait Gore is out for 3 games at least so he's going to be counted on more to get the ball to the Receivers.

So the numbers will be LOWER not higher, based on the stats. Because he's completed 2/3 of his attempts and because teams will Defense the short to medium routes and make Hill beat them deep.

"What about Coffee?" What about him? He's a backup thrust into the Starting role. It doesn't mean anything at the moment. Not until he shows that he's a capable Back.

And angry? I don't get the inference but I'm not an angry individual. But again eye of the beholder an all you know.


~Ceadder

He's 11th in passer rating.

Only 1 interception.

18th in yards per attempt.

16th in completion percentage.

That doesn't sound to me like one of the worst QBs in the NFL. It sounds to me like he's right in the middle of the pack. I don't really think you know what you're talking about!

Hater.

I have maintained from the start that he was a mediocre QB. Too bad we can't combine our first two QB's and have one good one.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by WestCoast:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I found an interesting vid containing a small segment from "Coach Speak" on Fox Sports (via youtube) featuring Singletary, and how he feels about Shaun Hill in relation to the offensive system/passing game.

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up (that Mike is fully confident within his QB), and that Shaun (himself) is allowed to do so whenever he feels comfortable enough to spread the field.

So altogether, it really sounds like we're finally going to air it out a lot more, and put more trust into Hill to close games (Singletary may be stubborn, but he never makes the same mistake twice if it costs the team a game).


Oh geez, if that was truly the case all along, then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?

Don't even mention Raye's name in regards to this cause I will laugh you right out of the conversation. Gimme something logical please, cause the stats just ain't normal.

~Ceadder

Someone has a perchance for hyperbole. Hill has far from the worst stats of any QB in the NFL. Ever heard of the names JaMarcus Russel, Jake Delhome, Byron Leftwich, Brady Quinn, Mark Bulger, Matthew Stafford, David Garrard, Jason Campbell..etc. etc.?

Ummmmm let's see here, no $h|t?

The point is, that Shaun ranks in the bottom of the list in every statistical category. Ranks right with the aforementioned names no less. That's nothing to be proud about. In fact I think that it would get some of us a bit up in arms over that.

But hey if he satisfies you and you can smoke a cigarette when he's finished, who am I to point this stuff out. So did you learn ANYTHING when you were on NFL.com, besides that Shaun is not at the bottom of the list? Or was this little experiment lost on you?

~Ceadder

I'm not sure why you are angry. Bad day?

I was merely pointing out that he was not the worst. You stated not that Hill was one of the worst, but "then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?"

In fact, he isn't even one of the worst. He is ranked 11th of all QB's in QB rating witih 89.9 out of 32 teams. That is pretty good.

He has only thrown 1 interception, which was mostly the WR's fault for giving up on a route. He is a game manager in a run first offense who steps up when he has too. He isn't Drew Brees, but don't paint him as being worse than he is.

You said you wanted facts, and there they are. Hill's numbers are normal for a run first team and better than many QB's that are in pass first offenses.

That being said, it doesn't seem like you are looking for a conversation, but a reason to be angry. So I am done here. I hope you feel better.

ceadder got pwnd!

I don't see much pwnage there but hey it's in the eye of the beholder, right?

Fact is the QB rating is not the end all be all. Like in this instance.

He's had 82 attempts over 3 games. That's 27 attempts a game.

Completed 52. That's 17 completions over these past 3 games.

While we're a RUNNING team, great bully for us that he hasn't given the ball away. Oh wait Gore is out for 3 games at least so he's going to be counted on more to get the ball to the Receivers.

So the numbers will be LOWER not higher, based on the stats. Because he's completed 2/3 of his attempts and because teams will Defense the short to medium routes and make Hill beat them deep.

"What about Coffee?" What about him? He's a backup thrust into the Starting role. It doesn't mean anything at the moment. Not until he shows that he's a capable Back.

And angry? I don't get the inference but I'm not an angry individual. But again eye of the beholder an all you know.


~Ceadder

He's 11th in passer rating.

Only 1 interception.

18th in yards per attempt.

16th in completion percentage.

That doesn't sound to me like one of the worst QBs in the NFL. It sounds to me like he's right in the middle of the pack. I don't really think you know what you're talking about!

Hater.

I have maintained from the start that he was a mediocre QB. Too bad we can't combine our first two QB's and have one good one.

You can win with mediocre. We have the formula to do so. As long as he doesn't turn the ball over, he's effective. And since he hasn't turned the ball over that much so far, he's been very effective.

I don't care how strong of an arm he has, or how athletic he is, I'll take him over a more "talented" QB who can't hang onto the football.
We NEED to throw it more
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by BigDaddy:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by WestCoast:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I found an interesting vid containing a small segment from "Coach Speak" on Fox Sports (via youtube) featuring Singletary, and how he feels about Shaun Hill in relation to the offensive system/passing game.

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up (that Mike is fully confident within his QB), and that Shaun (himself) is allowed to do so whenever he feels comfortable enough to spread the field.

So altogether, it really sounds like we're finally going to air it out a lot more, and put more trust into Hill to close games (Singletary may be stubborn, but he never makes the same mistake twice if it costs the team a game).


Oh geez, if that was truly the case all along, then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?

Don't even mention Raye's name in regards to this cause I will laugh you right out of the conversation. Gimme something logical please, cause the stats just ain't normal.

~Ceadder

Someone has a perchance for hyperbole. Hill has far from the worst stats of any QB in the NFL. Ever heard of the names JaMarcus Russel, Jake Delhome, Byron Leftwich, Brady Quinn, Mark Bulger, Matthew Stafford, David Garrard, Jason Campbell..etc. etc.?

Ummmmm let's see here, no $h|t?

The point is, that Shaun ranks in the bottom of the list in every statistical category. Ranks right with the aforementioned names no less. That's nothing to be proud about. In fact I think that it would get some of us a bit up in arms over that.

But hey if he satisfies you and you can smoke a cigarette when he's finished, who am I to point this stuff out. So did you learn ANYTHING when you were on NFL.com, besides that Shaun is not at the bottom of the list? Or was this little experiment lost on you?

~Ceadder

I'm not sure why you are angry. Bad day?

I was merely pointing out that he was not the worst. You stated not that Hill was one of the worst, but "then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?"

In fact, he isn't even one of the worst. He is ranked 11th of all QB's in QB rating witih 89.9 out of 32 teams. That is pretty good.

He has only thrown 1 interception, which was mostly the WR's fault for giving up on a route. He is a game manager in a run first offense who steps up when he has too. He isn't Drew Brees, but don't paint him as being worse than he is.

You said you wanted facts, and there they are. Hill's numbers are normal for a run first team and better than many QB's that are in pass first offenses.

That being said, it doesn't seem like you are looking for a conversation, but a reason to be angry. So I am done here. I hope you feel better.

ceadder got pwnd!

I don't see much pwnage there but hey it's in the eye of the beholder, right?

Fact is the QB rating is not the end all be all. Like in this instance.

He's had 82 attempts over 3 games. That's 27 attempts a game.

Completed 52. That's 17 completions over these past 3 games.

While we're a RUNNING team, great bully for us that he hasn't given the ball away. Oh wait Gore is out for 3 games at least so he's going to be counted on more to get the ball to the Receivers.

So the numbers will be LOWER not higher, based on the stats. Because he's completed 2/3 of his attempts and because teams will Defense the short to medium routes and make Hill beat them deep.

"What about Coffee?" What about him? He's a backup thrust into the Starting role. It doesn't mean anything at the moment. Not until he shows that he's a capable Back.

And angry? I don't get the inference but I'm not an angry individual. But again eye of the beholder an all you know.


~Ceadder

Fact of the matter is we're winning with Hill. So that's all that matters. He didn't lose that game at Minnesota. Take away that return for a TD or that fluke azz pass at the end and it's a whole different story.

Ummmm where did I say he lost us the game?

Hang on, lemme go over what I said "The QB rating is not the end all be all. Yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah..."

Nope never said it. You are reading something that wasn't even said.

But hey now that you mention taking things away, how bout we just take away the good things that happened too? Like the DEFENSE keeping this team in the freakin game? Remember that INT?

The point is that Hill is a custodial QB. We DON'T and won't have a Run game to hang our hat on because Gore is INJURED and that makes Hill the guy. He's got to get it done. If he can't then he should not have been named QB1 to start with. I guarantee that either Nate or Alex could have done the same thing that Hill did. I'm not out to pee in the man's Wheaties, I'm happy that he got us to 2-1. But if you HONESTLY take a step back and analyze it, that could be any of our guys and we'd be in the same position.

The fact is the Run game and the Defense have both stepped up over the last 3 games. I figure St. Louis to be a route(although certainly a trap game) so I'm not even going to take them into consideration unless Hill just melts down. Let's see what he does the next 2 games. Personally I don't feel that he should have been named QB1. He's a Backup in a starring role.

But I never, not once stated that he lost us that game. WOuld have been nice to have more production out of the spot but the play calling was also to blame. I also think that if Sing gave him his head the whole time then it is indeed on Hill and Raye isn't the scapegoat that people make him out to be.

~Ceadder

Hey cheddar, can i have that crystal ball? I need me some lotto numbers! You can't say either of the other two QBs would have done better or worse...


Nope, I can't. But I can certainly make the case that they could do the same things that Hill has under Center. And that was my point. Why go into the season limiting your Offense? That makes no sense. One INT? Ummmm I think that it should be more like 3 at least.

We have the one.

Then we have the downfield shot to Bruce who had to become the DB to keep the ball out of the hands of the Defender.(2)

Then we have the CLEAR pick, that was overturned because our illustrious backup cost us with the delay of game penalty.(3)( might as well be 30 due to all the damn 3 an outs)

And then how bout all the damn 3 an outs? To me those are just as bad as picks, because we have to give the other teams the ball back.

Now I don't know about you but I think that Smith or Davis could have done similar. Though I think that with their arms they would limit the amount of 3 and outs that we are seeing. The 3 and outs are gonna cost this team in the end and that's what I am unhappy about.

I'm at a loss to how so many of you are content with this garbage.

~Ceadder

[ Edited by Ceadderman on Oct 2, 2009 at 13:17:05 ]
Oh and if by calling out our guys when they aren't performing the task they are assigned makes me a hater?

Then you damn skippy I'm a hater. I hate inept play by ANY player an I'll call em out EVERY time. Shaun ain't gettin it done and so I'm callin him out.

This isn't a first for me, anyone that knows me knows that. I've called out T.O. for the multiple games of alligator arms and creating turnovers. Barlow for his backfield antics and lots of others for inept play. Sullivan for limiting us with 5th string WRs' because they shine in practice, our Coordinators for not keepin their butts in the booth, etc.

Yup hater all day, that's me.

~Ceadder