About Shaun Hills Low Passing numbers

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by dman:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Originally posted by dman:
I just can't see Shaun Hill winning any Super Bowls.

maybe, but did anyone see Dilfer of all people winning one, and Hill is 100 times better IMO than Dilfer. So anythings possible.

Really?

Lets just agree to disagree on that one.

I am with you, even though AB83 is unquestionably one of the better posters on this site. Shaun Hill = Trent Dilfer in his prime.

just asking Memphis....but if Hill = Dilfer in his prime

then who does Alex = _____ in his prime ?

don't shy away from the question....k

Someone has to reach his prime to be compared to anyone else in their prime...so what does this have to do with Hill? You just fishing for an argument or something?

Troll on!

so, after 12 starts in the NFL, Shaun Hill has reached his prime.....seems fair I guess.

and you're calling me a troll

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
What's not surprising is that Hill is ranked 24th in pass ATTEMPTS. That speaks to a very conservative offense? Can he pass more? Of course...he was on pace to throw for over 4,100 yards last year. He only started 8 games and finished the year ranked 12th in the entire league. Had he played a whole year, even under Martz's pared-down offense, he would have been 4th in total yards.

24 Shaun Hill SF 57
25 Trent Edwards 56
25 Carson Palmer 56
25 Tony Romo 56
28 Matt Hasselbeck 54
28 JaMarcus Russell 54
30 Mark Sanchez 53
31 Brett Favre 48
32 Matt Cassel 39

So what's changed? I'd have to say our philosophy and an old-school OC who doesn't understand Hill's abilities/strengths yet.

What's interesting is that some of these players on this list are/were injured or also have good/great defenses and rely mostly on the run. Hill is proving he can play in a wide-open offense such as Martz and a very conservative offense in Raye.

I think some of you need to back off, get perspective and realize Hill is only doing what he's coached and that is to manage games and not lose them. Period. Two weeks in a row now, when he is turned loose, he leads us to winning but ONLY when given the chance - there are no audibles in this offense. It's ALL Raye!

His low passing numbers are because he doesn't throw to the wr's enough. He is struggling through his reads, and that might be having to do with learning a new system. But make no mistake, Hill as a qb limits the plays you can call as an OC, there is just no way around it. I can almost guarantee you that you will not see Raye call a deep out pattern for Hill, he just doesn't have the arm to make some throws that the top tier qb's in the league can make. Not that he can't throw it down the field, but he cannot put enough velocity on it to keep it from hanging up and fluttering in the breeze. As long as he doesn't cost s games I got no problem with him.

Check the out-route to Josh Morgan at 1:45-2:00 in this video. Hill just needs to settle down in this offense and he will start to take more shots down field. Raye's just a little too conservative IMO.

That was Hill with a 20 yard out, not really a deep out and a nice throw anyways. Raye wasn't calling the plays either though.

So you don't consider a 20 yard out a deep out?? OK, probably medium, but that's still a nice pass in a NFL size window. I'll say this once and I'll say it again, Hill has enough arm strength to run this offense and the WCO. Laser rocket arms are over rated. I'd take a smart QB with decent arm strength over a laser rocket arm any day.

So I reviewed the reel above: (only considered the vertical passing distance, not the extra yardage to the sideline or the yards the WR got after the catch):

25 yard TD pass along the right sideline
35 yard corner route to the left sideline
30 yard TD down the middle of the field
23 yard pass down the middle of the field
25 yard out pattern to the right sideline

So, whatever it is they are complaining about is total bogus. Many of those sideline routes passes traveled well over what I stated, were right on a dime, were thrown with NO hesitation and put the WR in position to get out of bounds or pick up RAC.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by dman:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Originally posted by dman:
I just can't see Shaun Hill winning any Super Bowls.

maybe, but did anyone see Dilfer of all people winning one, and Hill is 100 times better IMO than Dilfer. So anythings possible.

Really?

Lets just agree to disagree on that one.

I am with you, even though AB83 is unquestionably one of the better posters on this site. Shaun Hill = Trent Dilfer in his prime.

just asking Memphis....but if Hill = Dilfer in his prime

then who does Alex = _____ in his prime ?

don't shy away from the question....k

Someone has to reach his prime to be compared to anyone else in their prime...so what does this have to do with Hill? You just fishing for an argument or something?

Troll on!

so, after 12 starts in the NFL, Shaun Hill has reached his prime.....seems fair I guess.

and you're calling me a troll

This will end the debate.... THIS CRAPTARD is a legend....that PISSES ME OFF

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Originally posted by NCommand:
What's not surprising is that Hill is ranked 24th in pass ATTEMPTS. That speaks to a very conservative offense? Can he pass more? Of course...he was on pace to throw for over 4,100 yards last year. He only started 8 games and finished the year ranked 12th in the entire league. Had he played a whole year, even under Martz's pared-down offense, he would have been 4th in total yards.

24 Shaun Hill SF 57
25 Trent Edwards 56
25 Carson Palmer 56
25 Tony Romo 56
28 Matt Hasselbeck 54
28 JaMarcus Russell 54
30 Mark Sanchez 53
31 Brett Favre 48
32 Matt Cassel 39

So what's changed? I'd have to say our philosophy and an old-school OC who doesn't understand Hill's abilities/strengths yet.

What's interesting is that some of these players on this list are/were injured or also have good/great defenses and rely mostly on the run. Hill is proving he can play in a wide-open offense such as Martz and a very conservative offense in Raye.

I think some of you need to back off, get perspective and realize Hill is only doing what he's coached and that is to manage games and not lose them. Period. Two weeks in a row now, when he is turned loose, he leads us to winning but ONLY when given the chance - there are no audibles in this offense. It's ALL Raye!

Ahh I knew Raye was he reason hill has trouble with zip on his deep outs and in and doesn't put anything on his short passes so his wrs have to stop. I also knew Raye was the reason Hill locks on to guys and doesn't turn his head and gets flustered in the pocket and blows. Please..

It's obvious you watched the game. I saw everything u just mentioned. But I don't hate Hill, and still want him to be our starter. But when the offseason starts, I want this team to do whatever we can to draft a stud QB prospect. With the stud prospect and Nate Davis, 1 of the 2 should turn out to be the QB of the future.

Thanks. Yeah Ive watched both games and I really pay close attention to Hills passes. I dont him eitheas a person I love him but not as our starting QB. We really need to adress this this offseason f**k Hill and Smith Idk about Davis

Originally posted by dman:
I just can't see Shaun Hill winning any Super Bowls.

Maybe the team he plays for will win it. I think the niners can win one while he QB's, as long as doesn't loose games. Just run the O and Sings team will win regardless. IMO

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by dman:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Originally posted by dman:
I just can't see Shaun Hill winning any Super Bowls.

maybe, but did anyone see Dilfer of all people winning one, and Hill is 100 times better IMO than Dilfer. So anythings possible.

Really?

Lets just agree to disagree on that one.

I am with you, even though AB83 is unquestionably one of the better posters on this site. Shaun Hill = Trent Dilfer in his prime.

just asking Memphis....but if Hill = Dilfer in his prime

then who does Alex = _____ in his prime ?

don't shy away from the question....k

Someone has to reach his prime to be compared to anyone else in their prime...so what does this have to do with Hill? You just fishing for an argument or something?

Troll on!

so, after 12 starts in the NFL, Shaun Hill has reached his prime.....seems fair I guess.

and you're calling me a troll

After 8 years he has reached his prime, or should have. Also, I didn't call you anything, I just said you were trolling (trolling: trying to bait someone into an argument) and I am not biting. And yes you are trolling...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by NCommand:
What's not surprising is that Hill is ranked 24th in pass ATTEMPTS. That speaks to a very conservative offense? Can he pass more? Of course...he was on pace to throw for over 4,100 yards last year. He only started 8 games and finished the year ranked 12th in the entire league. Had he played a whole year, even under Martz's pared-down offense, he would have been 4th in total yards.

24 Shaun Hill SF 57
25 Trent Edwards 56
25 Carson Palmer 56
25 Tony Romo 56
28 Matt Hasselbeck 54
28 JaMarcus Russell 54
30 Mark Sanchez 53
31 Brett Favre 48
32 Matt Cassel 39

So what's changed? I'd have to say our philosophy and an old-school OC who doesn't understand Hill's abilities/strengths yet.

What's interesting is that some of these players on this list are/were injured or also have good/great defenses and rely mostly on the run. Hill is proving he can play in a wide-open offense such as Martz and a very conservative offense in Raye.

I think some of you need to back off, get perspective and realize Hill is only doing what he's coached and that is to manage games and not lose them. Period. Two weeks in a row now, when he is turned loose, he leads us to winning but ONLY when given the chance - there are no audibles in this offense. It's ALL Raye!

The 49ers have run more pass plays than running plays through 2 games. Its not the run:pass balance. Its that he's not getting the ball down the field that is the issue.

He's only attempted 57 passes. 24th in the league...we may have passed more then run we still haven't had nearly the attempts the rest of the league has attempted and that's my point.

The reason he's "only" attempted 57 passes is because our 3rd down conversion rate is a measly 36% for the season which is tied for 25th in the NFL. IMO, that falls on Shaun Hill.

Another horrendous stat is that we're averaging 14.5 first downs a game, which is 30th in the NFL. Not surprising, and this also falls on Hill. He needs to definitely work on his 3rd down completion rate or else our offense will continue to sputter other then Frank Gore scoring 80 yard touchdowns.

aikman had a stronger arm tho which did i think keep the d on there toes. another hillexcuse

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by dman:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Originally posted by dman:
I just can't see Shaun Hill winning any Super Bowls.

maybe, but did anyone see Dilfer of all people winning one, and Hill is 100 times better IMO than Dilfer. So anythings possible.

Really?

Lets just agree to disagree on that one.

I am with you, even though AB83 is unquestionably one of the better posters on this site. Shaun Hill = Trent Dilfer in his prime.

just asking Memphis....but if Hill = Dilfer in his prime

then who does Alex = _____ in his prime ?

don't shy away from the question....k

i hope u haters are going off alex's stats for one season, cause thats the only season he had a chance. how many times people love to forget rookie year line garbage and no reciever. 2nd year turner decent line and ab, 3000 yards, 3rd year injured but 2-1 before he was throwing without a collerbone..... after these facts only idiots can say hes terrible.

9-3 as a starter. jesus christ.

once he starts to lose you alex lovers can trash him.

Originally posted by Dino:
9-3 as a starter. jesus christ.

once he starts to lose you alex lovers can trash him.

As an "Alex Lover," I don't feel the need to trash Hill if he loses. I just hope he fixes the issues which I have presented (his third down rating, and efficiency is porous and needs improvement). End of story. If this somehow has something to do with Smith then so be it.

P.S. I just feel that if Smith had the same stats as Hill through these two games, people would be hating on him without worry, saying the same things I'm saying. Just a different person saying the same things IMO.

Originally posted by Method:

Originally posted by Dino:
9-3 as a starter. jesus christ.

once he starts to lose you alex lovers can trash him.

As an "Alex Lover," I don't feel the need to trash Hill if he loses. I just hope he fixes the issues which I have presented (his third down rating, and efficiency is porous and needs improvement). End of story. If this somehow has something to do with Smith then so be it.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by dman:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Originally posted by dman:
I just can't see Shaun Hill winning any Super Bowls.

maybe, but did anyone see Dilfer of all people winning one, and Hill is 100 times better IMO than Dilfer. So anythings possible.

Really?

Lets just agree to disagree on that one.

I am with you, even though AB83 is unquestionably one of the better posters on this site. Shaun Hill = Trent Dilfer in his prime.

just asking Memphis....but if Hill = Dilfer in his prime

then who does Alex = _____ in his prime ?

don't shy away from the question....k

Someone has to reach his prime to be compared to anyone else in their prime...so what does this have to do with Hill? You just fishing for an argument or something?

Troll on!

so, after 12 starts in the NFL, Shaun Hill has reached his prime.....seems fair I guess.

and you're calling me a troll

After 8 years he has reached his prime, or should have. Also, I didn't call you anything, I just said you were trolling (trolling: trying to bait someone into an argument) and I am not biting. And yes you are trolling...

its funny how you want to ignore how important real gameday experiences is when evaluating if someone has reached their prime....

but for you I'll ignore it......so I have another question.

do you believe that after 8 years Rich Gannon reached his prime in the NFL...

Rich came into the league in 1987 with the Vikes.....and was with the Vikes for 6 seasons....started about 3 seasons, toward the end.

after 8 seasons in the league he was a backup with the Chiefs.

after 10 seasons in the league he started about 6 games for the Chiefs and did ok.

after 11 seasons in the league he started most of the season and didn't do that well.

after 12 seasons in the league he came to Oakland and did great.......

and for the next 4 years Rich Gannon was one of the best QBs in the league, ProBowler and all

at age 37, Rich had a 67.6 percentage rating and passed for 4689 yards with 26TDs and 10ints with a 97.3 qb rating.

I'd say Rich didn't reach his prime till around his 13 season in the league.....

Rich and Shaun are very similar QBs....both don't have the strongest arms but are proficient and do a good job of not turning the ball over.....both are great leaders and the players respond well to them (Shaun played well with last years offensive personal with basically no running game and won a number of games)

so, IMO, I think I'll wait alittle bit to see how Shaun plays this year and maybe next, before I presume he is in his prime.

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by dman:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Originally posted by dman:
I just can't see Shaun Hill winning any Super Bowls.

maybe, but did anyone see Dilfer of all people winning one, and Hill is 100 times better IMO than Dilfer. So anythings possible.

Really?

Lets just agree to disagree on that one.

I am with you, even though AB83 is unquestionably one of the better posters on this site. Shaun Hill = Trent Dilfer in his prime.

just asking Memphis....but if Hill = Dilfer in his prime

then who does Alex = _____ in his prime ?

don't shy away from the question....k

i hope u haters are going off alex's stats for one season, cause thats the only season he had a chance. how many times people love to forget rookie year line garbage and no reciever. 2nd year turner decent line and ab, 3000 yards, 3rd year injured but 2-1 before he was throwing without a collerbone..... after these facts only idiots can say hes terrible.

I don't know if you noticed but I didn't respond with that post to bash Alex...I was just making a point.... we can't say Alex is in his prime because he hasn't played in a while and he has only been in the league for 4 season.......just as much as we can't say that Shaun in his prime after he has ONLY started 12 games in his career.

Alex has way more real time experience than Hill however.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by dman:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Originally posted by dman:
I just can't see Shaun Hill winning any Super Bowls.

maybe, but did anyone see Dilfer of all people winning one, and Hill is 100 times better IMO than Dilfer. So anythings possible.

Really?

Lets just agree to disagree on that one.

I am with you, even though AB83 is unquestionably one of the better posters on this site. Shaun Hill = Trent Dilfer in his prime.

Actually, we can let the statistics determine who is better.

Trent Dilfer, QB - Career passer rating of 70.2 / 55.5 Completion % / 6.5 Yard Average / -16 TD to INT Deferential

Shaun Hill, QB - Career passer rating of 90.1 / 64.2 Competion % / 6.8 Yard Average / +10 TD to INT Deferential

Also consider the following: Trent Dilfer was the 6th overall choice in the 1994 draft. Shaun Hill went undrafted. Dilfer won a Super Bowl in 2000 with the Baltimore Ravens, though he started just 11 games plus 4 playoff games that season. Also, the 2000 Baltimore Ravens defense was statistically the best defense outside of the 1985 Chicago Bears in NFL history.

We can't compare hard numbers because Hill is just 29. Should Shaun win a Super Bowl and continue his unassuming yet solid statistical output, I see no reason to think he won't be a better QB once he totals out his career.