There are 59 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

8 sacks in 2 games!

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
I would put at least half of those on Hill. He is holding the ball way to long and has shown poor pocket awareness.

Not sure why he holds it so long, he is not that effective throwing further than 20 yards so he might as well snap off the short routes. Play calling needs to be adjusted a bit as well.

I am not sure what he is seeing, or not seeing. I appears to me that he is not, going through the progression and at a minimum hitting the check down receiver. On the bright side, at least he in not just chucking up and hoping for the best, ala JTO..
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
It's definitely a concern, but I don't think sacks are as big of a deal as many folks do. I think the fact that we're one of 5 teams who haven't thrown a single interception is far more important and a significant factor in our 2-0 start.

And a big part of not throwing interceptions is knowing when to just go down to the turf and eat the 5-7 yards in a sack instead of trying to make something happen when there's nothing there. Hill's good at that.

True, but what is concerning is that Hill is getting stripped of the ball and we have been pretty lucky to recover these balls.

What I'm not sure of is, is there an issue with Hill or the WR's getting seperation? Is our offense lulling the WR's to sleep b/c they are primarily being used to block? It appears that if Hill does not throw it within 3 seconds, we're in big trouble - sack, strip, scramble, tons of pressure, negative yards, etc. However, if Hill does complete it within 3 seconds, it's almost always a completion and it appears our WR's are wide open!

Thoughts? I need to watch the game tapes again anyhow...

I'll defer to your observations regarding separation. I watch the games on an internet feed that isn't exactly crystal clear, and don't have much of an opportunity to watch the game again. Plus, I feel like you understand the sport on a deeper level than I do, so you'll probably pick up on things that I won't.

You're correct about getting stripped, but I don't think our O-Line has been doing him many favors either. I believe there are increased opportunities for him to lose the ball, therefore it's going to happen a bit more often. I believe he's fumbled once in each of the first two games. Hill definitely should have sensed the pressure on the play yesterday though where we lost the ball.

There's definitely a drastic difference between our completions and the plays that are sacks/pressures. Our WRs are VERY open on the crossing routes, and I don't think I can't think of more than a play or two where Hill has "stuck" a ball into a small window. It seems very feast or famine.

All of that being said, I'm just so damn stoked that we're 2-0 and bearing resemblance to a good football team that I have a hard time bringing myself to complain about anything. Taking the passing game in context of the rest of our team, I'm okay with what's going on. Don't turn the ball over, convert on third down, and put your running game & defense in a position to succeed. I think we're following the most likely formula for success as it relates to the talent on our roster. I'm pretty damn happy right now.
[ Edited by LA9erFan on Sep 21, 2009 at 9:36 AM ]
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
It's definitely a concern, but I don't think sacks are as big of a deal as many folks do. I think the fact that we're one of 5 teams who haven't thrown a single interception is far more important and a significant factor in our 2-0 start.

And a big part of not throwing interceptions is knowing when to just go down to the turf and eat the 5-7 yards in a sack instead of trying to make something happen when there's nothing there. Hill's good at that.

True, but what is concerning is that Hill is getting stripped of the ball and we have been pretty lucky to recover these balls.

What I'm not sure of is, is there an issue with Hill or the WR's getting seperation? Is our offense lulling the WR's to sleep b/c they are primarily being used to block? It appears that if Hill does not throw it within 3 seconds, we're in big trouble - sack, strip, scramble, tons of pressure, negative yards, etc. However, if Hill does complete it within 3 seconds, it's almost always a completion and it appears our WR's are wide open!

Thoughts? I need to watch the game tapes again anyhow...

I'll defer to your observations regarding separation. I watch the games on an internet feed that isn't exactly crystal clear, and don't have much of an opportunity to watch the game again. Plus, I feel like you understand the sport on a deeper level than I do, so you'll probably pick up on things that I won't.

You're correct about getting stripped, but I don't think our O-Line has been doing him many favors either. I believe there are increased opportunities for him to lose the ball, therefore it's going to happen a bit more often. I believe he's fumbled once in each of the first two games. Hill definitely should have sensed the pressure on the play yesterday though where we lost the ball.

There's definitely a drastic difference between our completions and the plays that are sacks/pressures. Our WRs are VERY open on the crossing routes, and I don't think I can't think of more than a play or two where Hill has "stuck" a ball into a small window. It seems very feast or famine.

All of that being said, I'm just so damn stoked that we're 2-0 and bearing resemblance to a good football team that I have a hard time bringing myself to complain about anything. Taking the passing game in context of the rest of our team, I'm okay with what's going on. Don't turn the ball over, convert on third down, and put your running game & defense in a position to succeed. I think we're following the most likely formula for success as it relates to the talent on our roster. I'm pretty damn happy right now.

No question, I'm stoked too! Listening to Singletary's presser yesterday, it's obvoous that he felt the way I did in that we need to learn how to finish a team b/c truly, that game could have been over in the 2nd quarter but at the same time, isn't it a nice change to be having this conversation? About finishig off an opponent?

I think you nailed it in that Hill is so concerned with making a mistake, he'll only throw is the WR is wide open and usually, those are on crossing patterns. I've noticed that too!

B/c we're winning and Gore ripped off two big runs yesterday, I think our o-line may be getting a pass. But 8 sacks given up so far, countless other pressures, you can see why Hill is sketchy back there...couple that with the lack of trust instilled by his coaches and there you go, one ultra conservative QB (passing game) that is more concerned about not losing the game and making mistakes.

I think it's working now but with each week, we need to build off it and let Hill loose and get that aggressive perspective he had last year under Martz where the entire offense is designed with the messsage of, "We trust you tio win it...even if you throw a few picks."
3 or 4 of these sacks are Hill just holding on to the ball to long. It looks like he's waiting for the routes to develop and (except for Bruce) isn't willing to deliver the ball until the guy is actually open...possibly a combination of lack of trust/timing right now with Morgan/Battle and a fear of turning the ball over.

So he'd rather take a sack than risk the INT.
Originally posted by GoFD74:
3 or 4 of these sacks are Hill just holding on to the ball to long. It looks like he's waiting for the routes to develop and (except for Bruce) isn't willing to deliver the ball until the guy is actually open...possibly a combination of lack of trust/timing right now with Morgan/Battle and a fear of turning the ball over.

So he'd rather take a sack than risk the INT.

He seems not just not see open recievers at times. Against Arizona, Morgan was open big time a couple times when he threw into coverage for Bruce. or dumped down to a rb that was well covered.
Even though some of those sacks are on him (since he held on to the ball a second too long), it would be nice to actually see our piece of s**t oline give Hill 5+ sec in the pocket, i cannot recall the last time our oline did this.

You look at olines like the Pats, Giants, Cowboys, and even Steelers, they give their QB's once in a while a play where he can just sit in the pocket.

3 step drop - then throw, doesn't always work, and when you constantly rely on that every time, it becomes a thing all about timing, which will always be developing as the season goes.

Hill does need to do a better job reading the field, but the oline should give him some time as well. Bruce is old, Battle is slow, Morgan is still learning, so don't expect this 3-5 drop step offense to be on the money that much like last years offense.
[ Edited by TheG0RE49er on Sep 21, 2009 at 10:29 AM ]
there is nothing to fix, starters NEED to be upgraded. Talent wise this offensive line is supbpar, especially in pass protect
Theres still work to be done in regards to pass protection, I'm confident we will develop a decent passing attack in the coming weeks
Maybe Vernon Davis should go back to strictly blocking.

That RT spot still needs an upgrade this off-season.
The sacks are not just a result of bad line play....they're also a result of

1. unimaginative play design - when you're seeing a defense stack the line, run blitz, and just overblitz, you need to adapt the play calling. I don't know....how about quicker drops, faster developing routes, and moving the pocket?

2. some ill fated decisions by Hill as well. There were at least two sacks where he literally stepped up into the sack lost his cool in the pocket. He's got happy feet right now....part of it is because he's got little time in the pocket to make a play that takes too long to develop.
Originally posted by HearstFan:
That equals 64 sacks this season if we keep this up! No wonder the passing game is horrendous. At this rate, Hill surely won't last the season. And we know how well Alex does with pressure.

Although I must say, a few times during the Seahawks game Hill had all day to throw and couldn't find anyone. I wish the TV screen had shown the whole field so we could see if the receivers just aren't getting separation.

i would rather take 8 sacks in 2 games and still have a healthy shaun hill then 4 picks and 4 sacks from a hurt alex smith!
Its better to take sacks then to throw interceptions.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
It's definitely a concern, but I don't think sacks are as big of a deal as many folks do. I think the fact that we're one of 5 teams who haven't thrown a single interception is far more important and a significant factor in our 2-0 start.

And a big part of not throwing interceptions is knowing when to just go down to the turf and eat the 5-7 yards in a sack instead of trying to make something happen when there's nothing there. Hill's good at that.

Yep. I'll take more sacks if it means that Hill doesn't force a throw under pressure and throws a pick.
Everyone was ripping Martz offense because of the number of sacks we were giving up but the only difference I see from last year to this is the lack of an effective passing game! I know we want to run the ball but every team we play knows it as well so we will be facing 8 man fronts every week and wont be so lucky as we were on Sunday.... I think we need to get Vernon more involved in the passing game or use Walker more if Davis has to block but something is definitely missing!
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
I would put at least half of those on Hill. He is holding the ball way to long and has shown poor pocket awareness.

On one of them yesterday, he rolled right into a defensive end. The line was protecting him and the pocket was near perfect, til he decided to run to his right (in between the RG and RT) to try to make a throw. When he did that the D-end just turned and tackled him. He was nowhere near him til Hill ran at him. Not smart.

With that said, he has played well enough to not kill the team with his turnovers. *cough* JT *cough* O'Sullivan *cough*