Valuing T.O.P. - Time of Possession

Originally posted by krizay:
So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

So getting rid of Martz's crazy passing attack, which yielded an extremely high number of turnovers, has nothing to do with changing the T.O.P. this year?

You mean relying on high-percentage passing plays rather than high-risk attempts has nothing to do with controlling the T.O.P.?

Did you erase JTO and Martz from your mind? Did you not see the 9-minute drive yesterday? The defense is getting themselves off the field, but we're also sustaining longer drives by playing smart football. To say the offense hasn't changed is extremely short-sighted.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by krizay:
As I said last year, the year before that & the year before that. You can all you want about T.O.P. I agree we are taking care of the ball more. That's obvious. The real differnce is THE DEFENSE IS ACTUALLY GETTING THEMSELVES OFF THE FIELD. That's the biggest reason for the change in T.O.P. We've only had a few real drives in the 1st 2 games. So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

yes but it is also because they have been well rested...and that has been our problem for the past 4 years...sustaining drives on offense to keep our defense well rested...not 3 and outs.

ever since Hill has been the starter our defense has played much better...it is not a coincidence......not directed at you Krizay more so, the Hill haters.

but I will say, our Defense is our most talented group.

How many drives exactly have we sustained in 2 games? Not many!

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by krizay:
As I said last year, the year before that & the year before that. You can all you want about T.O.P. I agree we are taking care of the ball more. That's obvious. The real differnce is THE DEFENSE IS ACTUALLY GETTING THEMSELVES OFF THE FIELD. That's the biggest reason for the change in T.O.P. We've only had a few real drives in the 1st 2 games. So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

yes but it is also because they have been well rested...and that has been our problem for the past 4 years...sustaining drives on offense to keep our defense well rested...not 3 and outs.

ever since Hill has been the starter our defense has played much better...it is not a coincidence......not directed at you Krizay more so, the Hill haters.

but I will say, our Defense is our most talented group.

How many drives exactly have we sustained in 2 games? Not many!

4 drives of 7 or more plays last week, 2 in week 1. Two of the drives last week took up a combined 17:34 but ended in field goals. The two long ones in week 1 both resulted in touchdowns and took 10:29 off the clock.

EDIT: You're right, not many. But, whether you call it luck or a "clutch factor" (take it as you will), there have been VERY timely long drives into the 4th quarter in both games.

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by krizay:
So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

So getting rid of Martz's crazy passing attack, which yielded an extremely high number of turnovers, has nothing to do with changing the T.O.P. this year?

You mean relying on high-percentage passing plays rather than high-risk attempts has nothing to do with controlling the T.O.P.?

Did you erase JTO and Martz from your mind? Did you not see the 9-minute drive yesterday? The defense is getting themselves off the field, but we're also sustaining longer drives by playing smart football. To say the offense hasn't changed is extremely short-sighted.

Dallas Cowboys #2 in offense 9th in 1st downs a game (6 more per game than us)
Titans #7 in offense, 15th in 1st downs per game (4 more than us)

Yet Cowboys are dead last in T.O.P. 25:50
Titans 25th with 27:09

Yes they both have 4 turnovers but it's their defense's inability to get off the field as to why they're in the negative in T.O.P. It clearly isn't the offense sustaining drives and keeping the defense fresh. As shown by the amount of 1st downs they get compared to us.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by krizay:
So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

So getting rid of Martz's crazy passing attack, which yielded an extremely high number of turnovers, has nothing to do with changing the T.O.P. this year?

You mean relying on high-percentage passing plays rather than high-risk attempts has nothing to do with controlling the T.O.P.?

Did you erase JTO and Martz from your mind? Did you not see the 9-minute drive yesterday? The defense is getting themselves off the field, but we're also sustaining longer drives by playing smart football. To say the offense hasn't changed is extremely short-sighted.

Dallas Cowboys #2 in offense 9th in 1st downs a game (6 more per game than us)
Titans #7 in offense, 15th in 1st downs per game (4 more than us)

Yet Cowboys are dead last in T.O.P. 25:50
Titans 25th with 27:09

Yes they both have 4 turnovers but it's their defense's inability to get off the field as to why they're in the negative in T.O.P. It clearly isn't the offense sustaining drives and keeping the defense fresh. As shown by the amount of 1st downs they get compared to us.

Wait, you are trying to tell me that the Cowboys, with their high number of turnovers, are last in T.O.P., and that's because of their defense?

I know they work hand-in-hand, but if the Cowboys took better care of the football, they would have won last night... hence my argument regarding offense and T.O.P. You control possession, you win games. You turn the ball over with high-risk passing, you lose games.

And you are missing my point. Even against Arizona, Singletary and Raye were working the clock even on the shorter drives. Yes, you should always strive for a first down, but running the ball enables you to control possession and work the clock against better opponents. Giving the opposing teams more T.O.P. only reduces your advantage to play to your strength as a defensive team.

And both teams you mentioned above lost yesterday.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:
As I said last year, the year before that & the year before that. You can all you want about T.O.P. I agree we are taking care of the ball more. That's obvious. The real differnce is THE DEFENSE IS ACTUALLY GETTING THEMSELVES OFF THE FIELD. That's the biggest reason for the change in T.O.P. We've only had a few real drives in the 1st 2 games. So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

I don't know. We had the same defense the first 8 games as we did the second 8 games last year but a big difference was better ball control and lowered turnovers by the offense in those two sections of last year. It's a combination of both but TOP has proven to help out the defense as has the defense getting stops helps with wins and sustaining a lead.

Nothing demoralizes a team that needs scores than looking up and seeing 8 minutes of clock used up.

week 10 last year Defense on the field 31:37
week 11 31:44
week 12 34:43
week 13 30:30



Should I keep going?

I don't understand what your point is on this one. Week 10 was a loss, 11 was a win, 12 was definitely a loss and 13 was a win.

Now take a look at our losses in prior weeks:


Week 4: 32:55
Week 5: 39.52
Week 6: 26.41 This was a game where PHI got a pick 6 with short field all day from 3 JTO turnovers. Gore ran for over 100.
Week 7: 34:30

The numbers you posted, our defense was out over 30 minutes on losses and if you include the first half of the season where TOP and ball security was not valued, the numbers look even worse, with one exception.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:
As I said last year, the year before that & the year before that. You can all you want about T.O.P. I agree we are taking care of the ball more. That's obvious. The real differnce is THE DEFENSE IS ACTUALLY GETTING THEMSELVES OFF THE FIELD. That's the biggest reason for the change in T.O.P. We've only had a few real drives in the 1st 2 games. So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

I don't know. We had the same defense the first 8 games as we did the second 8 games last year but a big difference was better ball control and lowered turnovers by the offense in those two sections of last year. It's a combination of both but TOP has proven to help out the defense as has the defense getting stops helps with wins and sustaining a lead.

Nothing demoralizes a team that needs scores than looking up and seeing 8 minutes of clock used up.

week 10 last year Defense on the field 31:37
week 11 31:44
week 12 34:43
week 13 30:30



Should I keep going?

I don't understand what your point is on this one. Week 10 was a loss, 11 was a win, 12 was definitely a loss and 13 was a win.

Now take a look at our losses in prior weeks:


Week 4: 32:55
Week 5: 39.52
Week 6: 26.41 This was a game where PHI got a pick 6 with short field all day from 3 JTO turnovers. Gore ran for over 100.
Week 7: 34:30

The numbers you posted, our defense was out over 30 minutes on losses and if you include the first half of the season where TOP and ball security was not valued, the numbers look even worse, with one exception.

You're the one that said we had the same defense the last 8 as the 1st 8 games. With the difference being less turnovers and what not. I was just showing you that even with the less turnovers or what not. The extra ball security did not result in positive T.O.P. because the DEFENSE STILL COULDN'T GET OFF THE FIELD!

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:
As I said last year, the year before that & the year before that. You can all you want about T.O.P. I agree we are taking care of the ball more. That's obvious. The real differnce is THE DEFENSE IS ACTUALLY GETTING THEMSELVES OFF THE FIELD. That's the biggest reason for the change in T.O.P. We've only had a few real drives in the 1st 2 games. So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

I don't know. We had the same defense the first 8 games as we did the second 8 games last year but a big difference was better ball control and lowered turnovers by the offense in those two sections of last year. It's a combination of both but TOP has proven to help out the defense as has the defense getting stops helps with wins and sustaining a lead.

Nothing demoralizes a team that needs scores than looking up and seeing 8 minutes of clock used up.

week 10 last year Defense on the field 31:37
week 11 31:44
week 12 34:43
week 13 30:30



Should I keep going?

I don't understand what your point is on this one. Week 10 was a loss, 11 was a win, 12 was definitely a loss and 13 was a win.

Now take a look at our losses in prior weeks:


Week 4: 32:55
Week 5: 39.52
Week 6: 26.41 This was a game where PHI got a pick 6 with short field all day from 3 JTO turnovers. Gore ran for over 100.
Week 7: 34:30

The numbers you posted, our defense was out over 30 minutes on losses and if you include the first half of the season where TOP and ball security was not valued, the numbers look even worse, with one exception.

You're the one that said we had the same defense the last 8 as the 1st 8 games. With the difference being less turnovers and what not. I was just showing you that even with the less turnovers or what not. The extra ball security did not result in positive T.O.P. because the DEFENSE STILL COULDN'T GET OFF THE FIELD!

Lay off the caps man. I can hear you just fine.

I am confused about what you mean by us practicing better ball security last year. Whether Singletary or Nolan were HC last year, Martz was still the OC. Martz was still practicing his high-risk passing. Raye is not.

Yes the defense is playing better, but the offense is also doing a good job of keeping them off the field by running the ball (and consequently running down the clock) and not turning the ball over.

My argument comes down to this... a 3 and out where you run the ball three times is more valuable than a 3 and out when you pass the ball three times. You are taking time off the clock and therefore limiting the total number of chances your opponent will have to score. That is what the 49ers are doing by running the ball more this year. That is pretty much what I am saying. We are both right!

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:
As I said last year, the year before that & the year before that. You can all you want about T.O.P. I agree we are taking care of the ball more. That's obvious. The real differnce is THE DEFENSE IS ACTUALLY GETTING THEMSELVES OFF THE FIELD. That's the biggest reason for the change in T.O.P. We've only had a few real drives in the 1st 2 games. So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

I don't know. We had the same defense the first 8 games as we did the second 8 games last year but a big difference was better ball control and lowered turnovers by the offense in those two sections of last year. It's a combination of both but TOP has proven to help out the defense as has the defense getting stops helps with wins and sustaining a lead.

Nothing demoralizes a team that needs scores than looking up and seeing 8 minutes of clock used up.

week 10 last year Defense on the field 31:37
week 11 31:44
week 12 34:43
week 13 30:30



Should I keep going?

I don't understand what your point is on this one. Week 10 was a loss, 11 was a win, 12 was definitely a loss and 13 was a win.

Now take a look at our losses in prior weeks:


Week 4: 32:55
Week 5: 39.52
Week 6: 26.41 This was a game where PHI got a pick 6 with short field all day from 3 JTO turnovers. Gore ran for over 100.
Week 7: 34:30

The numbers you posted, our defense was out over 30 minutes on losses and if you include the first half of the season where TOP and ball security was not valued, the numbers look even worse, with one exception.

You're the one that said we had the same defense the last 8 as the 1st 8 games. With the difference being less turnovers and what not. I was just showing you that even with the less turnovers or what not. The extra ball security did not result in positive T.O.P. because the DEFENSE STILL COULDN'T GET OFF THE FIELD!

The point is that as our offense displayed better ball security and ran the ball more, the time the defense was on the field decreased and we won more games than we lost with the same defense.

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by krizay:
So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

So getting rid of Martz's crazy passing attack, which yielded an extremely high number of turnovers, has nothing to do with changing the T.O.P. this year?

You mean relying on high-percentage passing plays rather than high-risk attempts has nothing to do with controlling the T.O.P.?

Did you erase JTO and Martz from your mind? Did you not see the 9-minute drive yesterday? The defense is getting themselves off the field, but we're also sustaining longer drives by playing smart football. To say the offense hasn't changed is extremely short-sighted.

Dallas Cowboys #2 in offense 9th in 1st downs a game (6 more per game than us)
Titans #7 in offense, 15th in 1st downs per game (4 more than us)

Yet Cowboys are dead last in T.O.P. 25:50
Titans 25th with 27:09

Yes they both have 4 turnovers but it's their defense's inability to get off the field as to why they're in the negative in T.O.P. It clearly isn't the offense sustaining drives and keeping the defense fresh. As shown by the amount of 1st downs they get compared to us.

Wait, you are trying to tell me that the Cowboys, with their high number of turnovers, are last in T.O.P., and that's because of their defense?

I know they work hand-in-hand, but if the Cowboys took better care of the football, they would have won last night... hence my argument regarding offense and T.O.P. You control possession, you win games. You turn the ball over with high-risk passing, you lose games.

And you are missing my point. Even against Arizona, Singletary and Raye were working the clock even on the shorter drives. Yes, you should always strive for a first down, but running the ball enables you to control possession and work the clock against better opponents. Giving the opposing teams more T.O.P. only reduces your advantage to play to your strength as a defensive team.

And both teams you mentioned above lost yesterday.

The argument isn't about winning or losing. The argument is on T.O.P.. In which you were talking about sustaining drives. Getting 1st downs sustain drives. Running just to run (like the Zona game) does not sustain a drive.

I acknowledge the fact that not turning over the ball helps. But whether you score/punt/or turn the ball over. The defense needs to get themselves off the field. A Turnover may cost you field position. But it's not much different than a punt.

Romo's Int's resulted in a total of less than 3 minutes of T.O.P. for the Giants.

Take a look at the box score of the TB game where Dallas had 0 turnovers and still only managed 26:28 T.O.P. despite 18 1st downs (sustaining drives) 462 yards of offense.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:
As I said last year, the year before that & the year before that. You can all you want about T.O.P. I agree we are taking care of the ball more. That's obvious. The real differnce is THE DEFENSE IS ACTUALLY GETTING THEMSELVES OFF THE FIELD. That's the biggest reason for the change in T.O.P. We've only had a few real drives in the 1st 2 games. So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

I don't know. We had the same defense the first 8 games as we did the second 8 games last year but a big difference was better ball control and lowered turnovers by the offense in those two sections of last year. It's a combination of both but TOP has proven to help out the defense as has the defense getting stops helps with wins and sustaining a lead.

Nothing demoralizes a team that needs scores than looking up and seeing 8 minutes of clock used up.

week 10 last year Defense on the field 31:37
week 11 31:44
week 12 34:43
week 13 30:30



Should I keep going?

I don't understand what your point is on this one. Week 10 was a loss, 11 was a win, 12 was definitely a loss and 13 was a win.

Now take a look at our losses in prior weeks:


Week 4: 32:55
Week 5: 39.52
Week 6: 26.41 This was a game where PHI got a pick 6 with short field all day from 3 JTO turnovers. Gore ran for over 100.
Week 7: 34:30

The numbers you posted, our defense was out over 30 minutes on losses and if you include the first half of the season where TOP and ball security was not valued, the numbers look even worse, with one exception.

You're the one that said we had the same defense the last 8 as the 1st 8 games. With the difference being less turnovers and what not. I was just showing you that even with the less turnovers or what not. The extra ball security did not result in positive T.O.P. because the DEFENSE STILL COULDN'T GET OFF THE FIELD!

The point is that as our offense displayed better ball security and ran the ball more, the time the defense was on the field decreased and we won more games than we lost with the same defense.

It may have decreased but it proves my point that in order to win the T.O.P. the defense needs to get themselves off the field.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:
As I said last year, the year before that & the year before that. You can all you want about T.O.P. I agree we are taking care of the ball more. That's obvious. The real differnce is THE DEFENSE IS ACTUALLY GETTING THEMSELVES OFF THE FIELD. That's the biggest reason for the change in T.O.P. We've only had a few real drives in the 1st 2 games. So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

I don't know. We had the same defense the first 8 games as we did the second 8 games last year but a big difference was better ball control and lowered turnovers by the offense in those two sections of last year. It's a combination of both but TOP has proven to help out the defense as has the defense getting stops helps with wins and sustaining a lead.

Nothing demoralizes a team that needs scores than looking up and seeing 8 minutes of clock used up.

week 10 last year Defense on the field 31:37
week 11 31:44
week 12 34:43
week 13 30:30



Should I keep going?

Isn't the D more likely to get a 3&out if they are rested instead of winded? If our O is holding the ball a few more minutes, then our D gets a little more rest and is more likely to get themselves off the filed and get the ball back to our O.

It works both ways though... Like in the 4th quarter with the lead. Were going to run the ball to eat up the clock. We need the D to be able to go out and stop the other team to get the ball back to our O so we can eat up more time.

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:
As I said last year, the year before that & the year before that. You can all you want about T.O.P. I agree we are taking care of the ball more. That's obvious. The real differnce is THE DEFENSE IS ACTUALLY GETTING THEMSELVES OFF THE FIELD. That's the biggest reason for the change in T.O.P. We've only had a few real drives in the 1st 2 games. So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

I don't know. We had the same defense the first 8 games as we did the second 8 games last year but a big difference was better ball control and lowered turnovers by the offense in those two sections of last year. It's a combination of both but TOP has proven to help out the defense as has the defense getting stops helps with wins and sustaining a lead.

Nothing demoralizes a team that needs scores than looking up and seeing 8 minutes of clock used up.

week 10 last year Defense on the field 31:37
week 11 31:44
week 12 34:43
week 13 30:30



Should I keep going?

I don't understand what your point is on this one. Week 10 was a loss, 11 was a win, 12 was definitely a loss and 13 was a win.

Now take a look at our losses in prior weeks:


Week 4: 32:55
Week 5: 39.52
Week 6: 26.41 This was a game where PHI got a pick 6 with short field all day from 3 JTO turnovers. Gore ran for over 100.
Week 7: 34:30

The numbers you posted, our defense was out over 30 minutes on losses and if you include the first half of the season where TOP and ball security was not valued, the numbers look even worse, with one exception.

You're the one that said we had the same defense the last 8 as the 1st 8 games. With the difference being less turnovers and what not. I was just showing you that even with the less turnovers or what not. The extra ball security did not result in positive T.O.P. because the DEFENSE STILL COULDN'T GET OFF THE FIELD!

Lay off the caps man. I can hear you just fine.

I am confused about what you mean by us practicing better ball security last year. Whether Singletary or Nolan were HC last year, Martz was still the OC. Martz was still practicing his high-risk passing. Raye is not.

Yes the defense is playing better, but the offense is also doing a good job of keeping them off the field by running the ball (and consequently running down the clock) and not turning the ball over.

My argument comes down to this... a 3 and out where you run the ball three times is more valuable than a 3 and out when you pass the ball three times. You are taking time off the clock and therefore limiting the total number of chances your opponent will have to score. That is what the 49ers are doing by running the ball more this year. That is pretty much what I am saying. We are both right!

I'll end my argument with this. We are only running the ball 2 more times a game this year than last year.

here's to 2-0

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by krizay:
As I said last year, the year before that & the year before that. You can all you want about T.O.P. I agree we are taking care of the ball more. That's obvious. The real differnce is THE DEFENSE IS ACTUALLY GETTING THEMSELVES OFF THE FIELD. That's the biggest reason for the change in T.O.P. We've only had a few real drives in the 1st 2 games. So it's definitely not the offense that's changed T.O.P. It's the defense getting THEMSELVES off the field.

I don't know. We had the same defense the first 8 games as we did the second 8 games last year but a big difference was better ball control and lowered turnovers by the offense in those two sections of last year. It's a combination of both but TOP has proven to help out the defense as has the defense getting stops helps with wins and sustaining a lead.

Nothing demoralizes a team that needs scores than looking up and seeing 8 minutes of clock used up.

week 10 last year Defense on the field 31:37
week 11 31:44
week 12 34:43
week 13 30:30



Should I keep going?

Isn't the D more likely to get a 3&out if they are rested instead of winded? If our O is holding the ball a few more minutes, then our D gets a little more rest and is more likely to get themselves off the filed and get the ball back to our O.

It works both ways though... Like in the 4th quarter with the lead. Were going to run the ball to eat up the clock. We need the D to be able to go out and stop the other team to get the ball back to our O so we can eat up more time.

For starters if our D is tired. Then shouldn't their O be tired. Why doesn't that ever work both ways? You sub out defensive lineman and backers alot. They very rarely change out O-line. just saying

Originally posted by NickSh49:
So the 49ers are 2-0, with what Mike Singletary has described as "ugly" wins. Granted, I will agree with him that these wins are indeed ugly offensively, but they are by no means Hostler-ish ugly. That's a whole 'nother kind of terrible ugly we should all try to burry in the deep, dark recesses of our minds.

There are many 49er fans posting after today's win against Seattle about their disappointment in the offense. Some think Shaun Hill is barely getting us by. Some think Jimmy Raye should put more faith in Hill and let him throw more. Some just want bigger and better stats.

The thing I think a lot of fans are forgetting is how important ball security and time of possession is in this sport and to this team. Compared to last season, the 49ers are eating up much more clock by taking care of the ball and running more often than they pass. The 49ers are playing to their strengths on offense and not asking Shaun Hill to carry the team when he really doesn't need to.

My case in point... go back and watch the Patriots @ 49ers highlight from 2008.

LINKAGE.

Now, this will require you to watch JTO again, but stay with me here. In that game, the Patriots knew the 49ers could potentially out-score them quickly... the Niners even put up 14 points in the first ten minutes alone. But then two things happened.

#1 - One coach did not value T.O.P. and ball security... that coach being Mike Martz. Instead of putting the game in Frank Gore's hands when the 49ers had the lead, he trusted JTO to carry the 49ers and continued to pass. Turnovers then happened, and the 49ers barely had the ball in the second half. Bad decision.

#2 - The other coach highly valued T.O.P... that coach being Bill "Darth Hoodie" Bellichick/cheat. Billy Boy dinked and dunked us with short passes and runs for the rest of the game and refused to have Cassell throw the long ball in the second half. He was careful with the football and milked the clock. Good decision.

I only bring this up because I feel the 49ers are playing extremely SMART football this season. In week one, the 49ers could not get the running game going against Arizona, but they stuck to it even on 3rd and 8's and 9's. Why? Because Singletary knew (just like Bellichick did last year with Martz/JTO) that Arizona had the potential to score points quickly. If the 49ers could in any way limit the amount of possessions Arizona had in the game, that would be to their advantage... and it played a huge part in SF's win.

So for those of you that want Jimmy Raye to have Shaun Hill put on an offensive show, can I ask you why? Seriously, why force Hill to pass more often when he really doesn't have to? It's the same reason the Vikings are not asking Brett Favre to win their games for them with his arm- they don't NEED him to. They have running backs and a defense that carry their team, kind of like the 49ers (yes I know AP is the best back in the league, but the logic still works out).

So until the NEED arrives, and the time in the game comes for Shaun Hill to put the team on his back, why risk passing a ton when the strength of this club is in controlling the time of possession with the running game? We all know Hill is capable of such things (see the Jets game from 2008), but there's no reason to force it when it is smarter and safer to win with hard running and good defense.

Great pionts I couldn't agree more.

Yesturday they got the ball with 1:20 to go in the 3Q and kept it until 7 minutes left in the game. That took all chances away from the gulls and they were fighting the clock as well as the score.