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So, did Arizona load the box on us ?

Great stuff as always oldman, this is the great stuff I look for on a football board.

I think it's pretty clear that we need to be much more original with our offensive game plan this week. It was way too vanilla.
Originally posted by GoldenIowa49er:
if hill woulda connected on a couple more of those deep shots he took the d woulda backed the fk off and gore woulda had some breathing room

There were a few that he should have connected on that would have stretched the D too. The pass in the endzone that Morgan should have fought for, and the one up the seam to VD that Wilson laid that cheap shot on and jarred the ball loose. Those two plays alone would have made it a different defense. Of course, the pass to Bruce really helped.
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Originally posted by GoldenIowa49er:
if hill woulda connected on a couple more of those deep shots he took the d woulda backed the fk off and gore woulda had some breathing room

There were a few that he should have connected on that would have stretched the D too. The pass in the endzone that Morgan should have fought for, and the one up the seam to VD that Wilson laid that cheap shot on and jarred the ball loose. Those two plays alone would have made it a different defense. Of course, the pass to Bruce really helped.

right on...i think the game woulda been a even bigger W with some more bragging rights had things went that way
I think this is why some coaches don't say anything to anyone about their gameplan a la Patriots. Singletary and Raye have been saying its going to be all about the run all season. So the Cardnals had probably focusing on jamming the line for the last few weeks.

I agree with some of the other comments that Hill is going to need to start airing it out to back teams off us.
wow great break down. i wonder if the offense is doing a similar breakdown to determine what tendencies we are seeing against our own tendencies.

what is important here is that obviously teams are stacking the box roughly 50% of the time and yet we kept running into it. the play calling needs to reflect the attention the run is getting.

also i dont understand why shaun hill did not audible at the line if he saw 9 men in the box. that is when u run VD & Morgan deep and see if can get a crazy mismatch. that would be the time when shaun takes back like 5 steps and just kinda chucks it up to whoever seems open. well not exactly that but u get the idea. though i guess we did do that once with bruce and it worked out well.
Originally posted by natrone06:
Without coaches tape isnt it really hard to tell how many are in the box. Especially with a guy like Adrian Wilson who constantly fakes likes hes coming down in the box and then backs off and vise versa?

Nope... fairly easy to determine how many are in the box on each play... just using the DVR recording and occasionally replaying to make certain. If Wilson was in the box, and backed off after the snap, then he was in the box.

I also expected more audibles from Hill... yet he never seemed to call any.
Originally posted by ninersush:
wow great break down. i wonder if the offense is doing a similar breakdown to determine what tendencies we are seeing against our own tendencies.

what is important here is that obviously teams are stacking the box roughly 50% of the time and yet we kept running into it. the play calling needs to reflect the attention the run is getting.

also i dont understand why shaun hill did not audible at the line if he saw 9 men in the box. that is when u run VD & Morgan deep and see if can get a crazy mismatch. that would be the time when shaun takes back like 5 steps and just kinda chucks it up to whoever seems open. well not exactly that but u get the idea. though i guess we did do that once with bruce and it worked out well.

In another thread, Hill said this...

"QB Shaun Hill said he's not allowed to audible out of runs all the time, even against eight-man fronts. He says that's OK with him because he understands that the running game isn't just about gaining yards but also keeping the clock running and wearing the defense down. "It all depends on the play and the game plan. There are so many variables in it."

Personally, I don't agree w/ it. Raye should let his QB have the option to audible to PA or screen, something to keep the defense from being too aggressive w/ blitzes.
its also pretty obvious that the league is not one where you can just out muscle your opponent. the schemes used now a days allow lesser men to have advantages like they were moreer men (i know that is aweful grammar). you have to scheme. i thought i read something recently that sing said when he was hired that he was not going to get fancy and try to out smart anyone but wanted to rather impose his will. a balanced offense is always better then a heavy one towards anyway.

other then that though i thought i saw a stat that we actually had a run to pass ratio that favored the pass.

remembering back to when we were good, i seem to remember us always being towards the top 5 in running but what really did it for us was timely play calling.

raye suppossedly scripted his like first 10 plays, first 3 and long/short and some ohter stuff. i dont know if he tried to script with any freedom from sing's run first mentality or if he is a bad o, but the play calling was not good. only until that last drive was the playcalling working, which might have had more to do with hill and the players executing then the actual play calling. i'd have to watch the game again, which i hope to do sat.
What those numbers dont show is the amount of run blitzes they came at us with. Even if 7 were in the box the safeties and LBs instantly came crashing down on run blitzes. They were bringing it.
Originally posted by MadMartz:
What those numbers dont show is the amount of run blitzes they came at us with. Even if 7 were in the box the safeties and LBs instantly came crashing down on run blitzes. They were bringing it.

if only we had a passing game to take advantage of that........
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
What those numbers dont show is the amount of run blitzes they came at us with. Even if 7 were in the box the safeties and LBs instantly came crashing down on run blitzes. They were bringing it.

if only we had a passing game to take advantage of that........

Yeah I know, How many play action passes did we throw? It wasnt many.
Originally posted by mcbaes72:
Originally posted by ninersush:
wow great break down. i wonder if the offense is doing a similar breakdown to determine what tendencies we are seeing against our own tendencies.

what is important here is that obviously teams are stacking the box roughly 50% of the time and yet we kept running into it. the play calling needs to reflect the attention the run is getting.

also i dont understand why shaun hill did not audible at the line if he saw 9 men in the box. that is when u run VD & Morgan deep and see if can get a crazy mismatch. that would be the time when shaun takes back like 5 steps and just kinda chucks it up to whoever seems open. well not exactly that but u get the idea. though i guess we did do that once with bruce and it worked out well.

In another thread, Hill said this...

"QB Shaun Hill said he's not allowed to audible out of runs all the time, even against eight-man fronts. He says that's OK with him because he understands that the running game isn't just about gaining yards but also keeping the clock running and wearing the defense down. "It all depends on the play and the game plan. There are so many variables in it."

Personally, I don't agree w/ it. Raye should let his QB have the option to audible to PA or screen, something to keep the defense from being too aggressive w/ blitzes.

i just saw that and posted there. its ridiculous. i would be one thing if this was a 1st year qb in a oober hostile environment and wanting to keep it conservative due to high turnover risk, but we are not that. hill is a vet and should be relied upon for using his brain. he's a pro and should be allowed to make a decision on the field. that's what a field general should be allowed to do, not hand cuffed by the suits and beuracrts in the box.
Originally posted by JizzmasterZero:
What the hell happened to play action? Doesn't seem like we use this enough. Looking at the stats you've so generously posted...We should be running play action screens and sideline out patterns. When will RAYE open it up? I hope as the season progresses, the play book will aslo progress. I can appreciate the W, especially against the rival Tardnals, but we can't expect the D to bail us out like this every week.

You have to have three things for the play action to work. First, you linemen must actually block. Second, your receivers actually have to get open. Third, you QB has to throw to our receivers.

Unfortunately, those three things didn't happen often for us in Arizona.

It would seem that Jimmy Raye has been channeling Woody Hayes.
[ Edited by nvninerfan1 on Sep 17, 2009 at 1:59 PM ]
To you guys calling for more play action, your line has to block long enough for the play action to develop, not sure ours can as of yet.
Originally posted by mcbaes72:
Originally posted by ninersush:
wow great break down. i wonder if the offense is doing a similar breakdown to determine what tendencies we are seeing against our own tendencies.

what is important here is that obviously teams are stacking the box roughly 50% of the time and yet we kept running into it. the play calling needs to reflect the attention the run is getting.

also i dont understand why shaun hill did not audible at the line if he saw 9 men in the box. that is when u run VD & Morgan deep and see if can get a crazy mismatch. that would be the time when shaun takes back like 5 steps and just kinda chucks it up to whoever seems open. well not exactly that but u get the idea. though i guess we did do that once with bruce and it worked out well.

In another thread, Hill said this...

"QB Shaun Hill said he's not allowed to audible out of runs all the time, even against eight-man fronts. He says that's OK with him because he understands that the running game isn't just about gaining yards but also keeping the clock running and wearing the defense down. "It all depends on the play and the game plan. There are so many variables in it."

Personally, I don't agree w/ it. Raye should let his QB have the option to audible to PA or screen, something to keep the defense from being too aggressive w/ blitzes.

I'm with you. Hill has the ABILITY to beat this defense esp. with them stacking the box with 8-9 but RAYE needs to allow him to adjust or at least, RAYE needs to change the call b/c it was VERY obvious when we'd run or pass and the Cards played right into it!