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Crabtree Discussion Thread

The cowboys have crabtree holdout and then offer their 3rd, 2nd or late 1st round pick for him depending on how many teams are interested in crabtree. The niners trade their rights to crabtree to the cowboys so they can salvage something out of this mess. Jones laughs his a$$ off and the rich get richer. The cowboys want a T.O. caliber talent. Their wideouts are only so so.
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by MaliCali:
Originally posted by PTulini:
I don't know what's going to happen at this point? Can someone please answer me this question...

Why do so many people think Michael Crabtree will have the oppertunity to re-enter the 2010 NFL Draft? If anything, he doesn't sign, and the 49ers will trade him in an effort to get some value for him. Also, Does Crabtree have the option to reject the trade? He shouldn't get to choose where he goes. I just don't get it!


if he is traded, he isn't required to sign with that team, there is no contract being traded, and only his rights...

so if his rights are traded to a team, he still has the option to re-enter the draft, because he is not contractually obligated to that team, so now that team is out of whatever they traded to the 49er's to get his rights..


no team will trade for him unless they know they already have contract agreements with him...

Surely no team can make contact with him, let alone have a contract agreement?-

It would be a Sign & Trade, basically the other team agrees in principle to a contract with Crabs, we sign him to that contract and trade him to the team for what they are offering.

No team would trade simply for the "rights" to him unless there was tampering involved. They would require a contract to be in place, and Im sure there is some enforceable agreement to ensure the trade actually takes place once the contract is signed.


I think it would go down like this:

1. Team X calls McCloughan and makes an acceptable trade offer.
2. The Niners give Team X permission to work-out contract terms with Crabtree.
3. The trade is completed.

I think the prime candidates for trade partners would be bottom of the 1st round teams looking for a playmaking WR but won't be within reach of the top 2010 prospects, assuming they're not scared off by Crabtree's act.

Seattle would be a candidate as well. They have 2 1st round picks in the 2010 draft as well if I remember correctly. they could use a WR for sure.
Whoever is in charge of this website, can you please remove Crabtree's face from the front page.[/i]
[ Edited by jimmythegreekjr on Sep 16, 2009 at 12:14 PM ]
Originally posted by mayo63:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by MaliCali:
Originally posted by PTulini:
I don't know what's going to happen at this point? Can someone please answer me this question...

Why do so many people think Michael Crabtree will have the oppertunity to re-enter the 2010 NFL Draft? If anything, he doesn't sign, and the 49ers will trade him in an effort to get some value for him. Also, Does Crabtree have the option to reject the trade? He shouldn't get to choose where he goes. I just don't get it!


if he is traded, he isn't required to sign with that team, there is no contract being traded, and only his rights...

so if his rights are traded to a team, he still has the option to re-enter the draft, because he is not contractually obligated to that team, so now that team is out of whatever they traded to the 49er's to get his rights..


no team will trade for him unless they know they already have contract agreements with him...

Surely no team can make contact with him, let alone have a contract agreement?-

It would be a Sign & Trade, basically the other team agrees in principle to a contract with Crabs, we sign him to that contract and trade him to the team for what they are offering.

No team would trade simply for the "rights" to him unless there was tampering involved. They would require a contract to be in place, and Im sure there is some enforceable agreement to ensure the trade actually takes place once the contract is signed.

Crabtree will not be able to sign any contract until the draft is over. Basically what will happen is we will grant Crabtree permission to seek a trade, and his agent/ team will agree to the principals of the contract. From there it comes down to us and "x" team agreeing to what the compensation will be.

My 2 cents is won't get market value for him because we have no leverage in this situation. No team is going to fear us putting him back in the draft because they know they will be able to get him there anyways. No team will trade for Crabtree unless they're positive a deal can get done.

It's another TO Philly-Baltimore situation. We're going to be stuck negotiating with the team Crabtree wants, and that's it.

But, if a team is picking later in the draft, Crabtree surely would be gone by then. That's why I think a team in need of a reciever picking later would want to make a trade knowing they have no chance of him falling that far in the draft.

I don't believe that. No team is going to want to be in the same boat that we are. Unless they're 100% positive that they can sign him they're not going to use a 1st rounder on him. If Crabtree makes it to the draft he starts off 3rd best receiver tops (Bryant, Benn). That puts him in the 16-20 range, and that's under the assumption that he's not labeled as a cancerous diva.

The wildcard in this is Crabtree's contract counts against the 2010 draft pool. I have no idea how that furthur muddies the water, but I've got to think that hurts a team if they're planning on paying him.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Sep 16, 2009 at 12:16 PM ]
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by MaliCali:
Originally posted by PTulini:
I don't know what's going to happen at this point? Can someone please answer me this question...

Why do so many people think Michael Crabtree will have the oppertunity to re-enter the 2010 NFL Draft? If anything, he doesn't sign, and the 49ers will trade him in an effort to get some value for him. Also, Does Crabtree have the option to reject the trade? He shouldn't get to choose where he goes. I just don't get it!


if he is traded, he isn't required to sign with that team, there is no contract being traded, and only his rights...

so if his rights are traded to a team, he still has the option to re-enter the draft, because he is not contractually obligated to that team, so now that team is out of whatever they traded to the 49er's to get his rights..


no team will trade for him unless they know they already have contract agreements with him...

Surely no team can make contact with him, let alone have a contract agreement?-

It would be a Sign & Trade, basically the other team agrees in principle to a contract with Crabs, we sign him to that contract and trade him to the team for what they are offering.

No team would trade simply for the "rights" to him unless there was tampering involved. They would require a contract to be in place, and Im sure there is some enforceable agreement to ensure the trade actually takes place once the contract is signed.

Crabtree will not be able to sign any contract until the draft is over. Basically what will happen is we will grant Crabtree permission to seek a trade, and his agent/ team will agree to the principals of the contract. From there it comes down to us and "x" team agreeing to what the compensation will be.

My 2 cents is won't get market value for him because we have no leverage in this situation. No team is going to fear us putting him back in the draft because they know they will be able to get him there anyways. No team will trade for Crabtree unless they're positive a deal can get done.

It's another TO Philly-Baltimore situation. We're going to be stuck negotiating with the team Crabtree wants, and that's it.

eh, I disgree. There is the precedent of the Kelley Stouffer situation in which he was worth a first and two other picks.

Let's not let our emotions get us carried away. If Crabtree hasn't signed by March 1, there will be half the teams in the league that will be lining up to shop the price. The kid is as close to a bona fide pro star as you get coming out of college. So even though we all know there are no guarantees, there will be teams that will give up at least a first round pick for him. For example, New England will likely be picking in the mid-to-low 20s, as such they would never have a chance to grab a guy like MC. As a result, they would gladly give up their low number one for a guy who would have certainly been a top five pick before a relatively minor injury sent him to #10.

I hope he signs here, but if he doesn't, I expect the 49ers to get at least two picks, including a first round pick, and the value will meet or exceed the point value for #10. The market will be there for Michael Crabtree and the 49ers will cash in.
[ Edited by dj43 on Sep 16, 2009 at 12:19 PM ]
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,103
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by MaliCali:
Originally posted by PTulini:
I don't know what's going to happen at this point? Can someone please answer me this question...

Why do so many people think Michael Crabtree will have the oppertunity to re-enter the 2010 NFL Draft? If anything, he doesn't sign, and the 49ers will trade him in an effort to get some value for him. Also, Does Crabtree have the option to reject the trade? He shouldn't get to choose where he goes. I just don't get it!


if he is traded, he isn't required to sign with that team, there is no contract being traded, and only his rights...

so if his rights are traded to a team, he still has the option to re-enter the draft, because he is not contractually obligated to that team, so now that team is out of whatever they traded to the 49er's to get his rights..


no team will trade for him unless they know they already have contract agreements with him...

Surely no team can make contact with him, let alone have a contract agreement?-

It would be a Sign & Trade, basically the other team agrees in principle to a contract with Crabs, we sign him to that contract and trade him to the team for what they are offering.

No team would trade simply for the "rights" to him unless there was tampering involved. They would require a contract to be in place, and Im sure there is some enforceable agreement to ensure the trade actually takes place once the contract is signed.

Crabtree will not be able to sign any contract until the draft is over. Basically what will happen is we will grant Crabtree permission to seek a trade, and his agent/ team will agree to the principals of the contract. From there it comes down to us and "x" team agreeing to what the compensation will be.

My 2 cents is won't get market value for him because we have no leverage in this situation. No team is going to fear us putting him back in the draft because they know they will be able to get him there anyways. No team will trade for Crabtree unless they're positive a deal can get done.

It's another TO Philly-Baltimore situation. We're going to be stuck negotiating with the team Crabtree wants, and that's it.

eh, I disgree. There is the precedent of the Kelley Stouffer situation in which he was worth a first and two other picks.

Let's not let our emotions get us carried away. If Crabtree hasn't signed by March 1, there will be half the teams in the league that will be lining up to shop the price. The kid is as close to a bona fide pro star as you get coming out of college. So even though we all know there are no guarantees, there will be teams that will give up at least a first round pick for him. For example, New England will likely be picking in the mid-to-low 20s, as such they would never have a chance to grab a guy like MC. As a result, they would gladly give up their low number one for a guy who would have certainly been a top five pick before a relatively minor injury sent him to #10.

I hope he signs here, but if he doesn't, I expect the 49ers to get at least two picks, including a first round pick, and the value will meet of exceed the point value for #10. The market will be there for Michael Crabtree and the 49ers will cash in.

Agree, 100%. There will be a market for this guy and a team will pay the price to get him.
Originally posted by mayo63:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by MaliCali:
Originally posted by PTulini:
I don't know what's going to happen at this point? Can someone please answer me this question...

Why do so many people think Michael Crabtree will have the oppertunity to re-enter the 2010 NFL Draft? If anything, he doesn't sign, and the 49ers will trade him in an effort to get some value for him. Also, Does Crabtree have the option to reject the trade? He shouldn't get to choose where he goes. I just don't get it!


if he is traded, he isn't required to sign with that team, there is no contract being traded, and only his rights...

so if his rights are traded to a team, he still has the option to re-enter the draft, because he is not contractually obligated to that team, so now that team is out of whatever they traded to the 49er's to get his rights..


no team will trade for him unless they know they already have contract agreements with him...

Surely no team can make contact with him, let alone have a contract agreement?-

It would be a Sign & Trade, basically the other team agrees in principle to a contract with Crabs, we sign him to that contract and trade him to the team for what they are offering.

No team would trade simply for the "rights" to him unless there was tampering involved. They would require a contract to be in place, and Im sure there is some enforceable agreement to ensure the trade actually takes place once the contract is signed.

Crabtree will not be able to sign any contract until the draft is over. Basically what will happen is we will grant Crabtree permission to seek a trade, and his agent/ team will agree to the principals of the contract. From there it comes down to us and "x" team agreeing to what the compensation will be.

My 2 cents is won't get market value for him because we have no leverage in this situation. No team is going to fear us putting him back in the draft because they know they will be able to get him there anyways. No team will trade for Crabtree unless they're positive a deal can get done.

It's another TO Philly-Baltimore situation. We're going to be stuck negotiating with the team Crabtree wants, and that's it.

eh, I disgree. There is the precedent of the Kelley Stouffer situation in which he was worth a first and two other picks.

Let's not let our emotions get us carried away. If Crabtree hasn't signed by March 1, there will be half the teams in the league that will be lining up to shop the price. The kid is as close to a bona fide pro star as you get coming out of college. So even though we all know there are no guarantees, there will be teams that will give up at least a first round pick for him. For example, New England will likely be picking in the mid-to-low 20s, as such they would never have a chance to grab a guy like MC. As a result, they would gladly give up their low number one for a guy who would have certainly been a top five pick before a relatively minor injury sent him to #10.

I hope he signs here, but if he doesn't, I expect the 49ers to get at least two picks, including a first round pick, and the value will meet of exceed the point value for #10. The market will be there for Michael Crabtree and the 49ers will cash in.

Agree, 100%. There will be a market for this guy and a team will pay the price to get him.

No team is going to trade for him unless they are absolutely sure he would sign. And if he wants significantly more money than the 49ers are offering, how many teams will give up multiple picks and the money? The team would rather take their chances with another WR, keeps the picks and the money.

But IMO, this is all premature. I still think (hope) he signs with us and becomes a valued member of the team. Maybe I'm naive but that's the best option for all parties involved.
Originally posted by mayo63:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by MaliCali:
Originally posted by PTulini:
I don't know what's going to happen at this point? Can someone please answer me this question...

Why do so many people think Michael Crabtree will have the oppertunity to re-enter the 2010 NFL Draft? If anything, he doesn't sign, and the 49ers will trade him in an effort to get some value for him. Also, Does Crabtree have the option to reject the trade? He shouldn't get to choose where he goes. I just don't get it!


if he is traded, he isn't required to sign with that team, there is no contract being traded, and only his rights...

so if his rights are traded to a team, he still has the option to re-enter the draft, because he is not contractually obligated to that team, so now that team is out of whatever they traded to the 49er's to get his rights..


no team will trade for him unless they know they already have contract agreements with him...

Surely no team can make contact with him, let alone have a contract agreement?-

It would be a Sign & Trade, basically the other team agrees in principle to a contract with Crabs, we sign him to that contract and trade him to the team for what they are offering.

No team would trade simply for the "rights" to him unless there was tampering involved. They would require a contract to be in place, and Im sure there is some enforceable agreement to ensure the trade actually takes place once the contract is signed.

Crabtree will not be able to sign any contract until the draft is over. Basically what will happen is we will grant Crabtree permission to seek a trade, and his agent/ team will agree to the principals of the contract. From there it comes down to us and "x" team agreeing to what the compensation will be.

My 2 cents is won't get market value for him because we have no leverage in this situation. No team is going to fear us putting him back in the draft because they know they will be able to get him there anyways. No team will trade for Crabtree unless they're positive a deal can get done.

It's another TO Philly-Baltimore situation. We're going to be stuck negotiating with the team Crabtree wants, and that's it.

eh, I disgree. There is the precedent of the Kelley Stouffer situation in which he was worth a first and two other picks.

Let's not let our emotions get us carried away. If Crabtree hasn't signed by March 1, there will be half the teams in the league that will be lining up to shop the price. The kid is as close to a bona fide pro star as you get coming out of college. So even though we all know there are no guarantees, there will be teams that will give up at least a first round pick for him. For example, New England will likely be picking in the mid-to-low 20s, as such they would never have a chance to grab a guy like MC. As a result, they would gladly give up their low number one for a guy who would have certainly been a top five pick before a relatively minor injury sent him to #10.

I hope he signs here, but if he doesn't, I expect the 49ers to get at least two picks, including a first round pick, and the value will meet of exceed the point value for #10. The market will be there for Michael Crabtree and the 49ers will cash in.

Agree, 100%. There will be a market for this guy and a team will pay the price to get him.

Probably true, but I sort of hope not, as it will only serve to embolden future rookies to try the same tactics.

That said, it would be nice to get something for him if he doesn't sign
So much pointless vitrol in this thread, the guy is not going to go back into the draft, he will sign once it becomes clear to him that he has zero leverage against the niners. He is only hurting himself at this point, he will sign as soon as he realizes we won't budge. Hopefully he fires Parker and makes it happen soon.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by MaliCali:
Originally posted by PTulini:
I don't know what's going to happen at this point? Can someone please answer me this question...

Why do so many people think Michael Crabtree will have the oppertunity to re-enter the 2010 NFL Draft? If anything, he doesn't sign, and the 49ers will trade him in an effort to get some value for him. Also, Does Crabtree have the option to reject the trade? He shouldn't get to choose where he goes. I just don't get it!


if he is traded, he isn't required to sign with that team, there is no contract being traded, and only his rights...

so if his rights are traded to a team, he still has the option to re-enter the draft, because he is not contractually obligated to that team, so now that team is out of whatever they traded to the 49er's to get his rights..


no team will trade for him unless they know they already have contract agreements with him...

Surely no team can make contact with him, let alone have a contract agreement?-

It would be a Sign & Trade, basically the other team agrees in principle to a contract with Crabs, we sign him to that contract and trade him to the team for what they are offering.

No team would trade simply for the "rights" to him unless there was tampering involved. They would require a contract to be in place, and Im sure there is some enforceable agreement to ensure the trade actually takes place once the contract is signed.

Crabtree will not be able to sign any contract until the draft is over. Basically what will happen is we will grant Crabtree permission to seek a trade, and his agent/ team will agree to the principals of the contract. From there it comes down to us and "x" team agreeing to what the compensation will be.

My 2 cents is won't get market value for him because we have no leverage in this situation. No team is going to fear us putting him back in the draft because they know they will be able to get him there anyways. No team will trade for Crabtree unless they're positive a deal can get done.

It's another TO Philly-Baltimore situation. We're going to be stuck negotiating with the team Crabtree wants, and that's it.

eh, I disgree. There is the precedent of the Kelley Stouffer situation in which he was worth a first and two other picks.

Let's not let our emotions get us carried away. If Crabtree hasn't signed by March 1, there will be half the teams in the league that will be lining up to shop the price. The kid is as close to a bona fide pro star as you get coming out of college. So even though we all know there are no guarantees, there will be teams that will give up at least a first round pick for him. For example, New England will likely be picking in the mid-to-low 20s, as such they would never have a chance to grab a guy like MC. As a result, they would gladly give up their low number one for a guy who would have certainly been a top five pick before a relatively minor injury sent him to #10.

I hope he signs here, but if he doesn't, I expect the 49ers to get at least two picks, including a first round pick, and the value will meet or exceed the point value for #10. The market will be there for Michael Crabtree and the 49ers will cash in.

Lol at New England. You mean the squad with Welker and Randy Moss on the team already. Try again.

We all know there's different standards between a franchise QB and a diva receiver otherwise we'd be willing to bust up the slotting system. The Stouffer situation really doesn't apply here.

Keep in mind you're not just shopping the trade value. You also have to sign the guy, and he's not holding just to make less than 16 mil guaranteed. The teams willing to give up multiple draft picks also have to be willing to give him the bank. I'm willing to bet that number will be less than 2.
Signing Draft Picks:

Although this thread is Crabtree related, it's not about him....


There should be new RULES for Draft Picks... Hold Outs should not be Allowed...

Personal Thoughts:

When a player Declares Eligible for the Draft, there should be a Document/Claus
that states that when and if a Player is Drafted, thats IT... Period... You take what
is given to you... An Opportunity, a CHANCE to prove your WORTH...

None of this Eli Manning Crap... They can Draft me, but I'm not Playing for them...
Makes me want to PUKE... This Better than the NFL mentality.... You are where
you're drafted... Brings me back to Rookie Salary Caps... Earn your Position, and
the Second Contract is what you're playing for... Eli could've been the Savior of
San Diego, could've turned the entire Franchise around single handedly, but NO, he
Crapped on every player that ever played the GAME...

Second:

Signing Endorsements before Signing your Contracts shouldn't be Allowed until
you've actually signed on the Dotted Line... Ala Crabtree... Doesn't need the
money, because he's already making Money... Aren't these Endorsements based
on him being a Niner???? How can he be a Product if he's not even on the Field
to diplay his Talent???? What position can the Endorsee's entertain???? Can they
force his Hands?????

Third:

Can a NFL Team go after a Draft Pick for Damages????????

Teams set parameters on what Draft Picks they have, whether they trade out,
trade up, or stay put... WE ARE OUT A DRAFT PICK... TICKET SALES... True
Damages that are Monetary.... People were actually Excited to see this kid
play, and now he's not here.... Could or should we attempt to go after or any
other team go after a Draft Pick that Holds out through the Season or Regular
Season Games????? I know it is mentioned that we are prepared to change
the language in the contract, and are willing to add a year and deduct 200k per
game until he is signed, but shouldn't we set a new standard by going after the
$$$$$$$$$'s that he's making based on him being a Niner... Hurt Him where
he's hurting us.... In the WALLET...

Ok, thats my Rant....

A9R4Life


Ps...

Compensatory Picks:

I heard that if Crabtree does intend to Hold out the Season, that we'd get a
compensatory Pick... Would it be a Top Ten Pick???? Would we get a pick of
the same Value????
Originally posted by A9R4Life:
Signing Draft Picks:Compensatory Picks:

I heard that if Crabtree does intend to Hold out the Season, that we'd get a
compensatory Pick... Would it be a Top Ten Pick???? Would we get a pick of
the same Value????

Yeah you heard wrong. We would get nothing.
If I ever see Crabtree I'm going to get his autograph and then directly stuff it in my ass crack and wipe
[ Edited by Youngone on Sep 16, 2009 at 12:44 PM ]
Originally posted by Youngone:
If I ever see Crabtree I'm going to get his autograph and then directly stuff it in my ass crack and wipe

i would buy that off of you
Originally posted by A9R4Life:
Signing Draft Picks:

Although this thread is Crabtree related, it's not about him....


There should be new RULES for Draft Picks... Hold Outs should not be Allowed...

Personal Thoughts:

When a player Declares Eligible for the Draft, there should be a Document/Claus
that states that when and if a Player is Drafted, thats IT... Period... You take what
is given to you... An Opportunity, a CHANCE to prove your WORTH...

None of this Eli Manning Crap... They can Draft me, but I'm not Playing for them...
Makes me want to PUKE... This Better than the NFL mentality.... You are where
you're drafted... Brings me back to Rookie Salary Caps... Earn your Position, and
the Second Contract is what you're playing for... Eli could've been the Savior of
San Diego, could've turned the entire Franchise around single handedly, but NO, he
Crapped on every player that ever played the GAME...

Second:

Signing Endorsements before Signing your Contracts shouldn't be Allowed until
you've actually signed on the Dotted Line... Ala Crabtree... Doesn't need the
money, because he's already making Money... Aren't these Endorsements based
on him being a Niner???? How can he be a Product if he's not even on the Field
to diplay his Talent???? What position can the Endorsee's entertain???? Can they
force his Hands?????

Third:

Can a NFL Team go after a Draft Pick for Damages????????

Teams set parameters on what Draft Picks they have, whether they trade out,
trade up, or stay put... WE ARE OUT A DRAFT PICK... TICKET SALES... True
Damages that are Monetary.... People were actually Excited to see this kid
play, and now he's not here.... Could or should we attempt to go after or any
other team go after a Draft Pick that Holds out through the Season or Regular
Season Games????? I know it is mentioned that we are prepared to change
the language in the contract, and are willing to add a year and deduct 200k per
game until he is signed, but shouldn't we set a new standard by going after the
$$$$$$$$$'s that he's making based on him being a Niner... Hurt Him where
he's hurting us.... In the WALLET...

Ok, thats my Rant....

A9R4Life


Ps...

Compensatory Picks:

I heard that if Crabtree does intend to Hold out the Season, that we'd get a
compensatory Pick...
Would it be a Top Ten Pick???? Would we get a pick of
the same Value????

No compensation if he holds out and re-enters the draft next year (except they's save the $16m they were gonna pay him over five years, and would have that money available to pay a free agent, perhaps).

And the Niners could NOT draft him again next year.