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Crabtree Discussion Thread

Hey, I just wanted to add my two cents to this ridiculously long thread...



There you go... now that that's over with.

Seriously mod's, 140 something pages and counting, how is this better than multiple threads? You know no one is going to read every post (2k and counting)... this just blows me away is all, LOL.

  • jame-gumb
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Crabtree's cousin said he'd be willing to sit out the whole year....he only sat out 40 some odd says....Crabtree has not done what his cousin said.

He said Crabtree would sit out the whole year. Crabtree didn't deny it and, to this point, has given zero indication that he plans to sign.

It doesn't really matter, though, because you're arguing semantics here.

I'll say it again (read slowly): My point is that Crabtree's decision to hold out is stupid. If you disagree, tell me why. If not, run along now.
Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Hey, I just wanted to add my two cents to this ridiculously long thread...



There you go... now that that's over with.

Seriously mod's, 140 something pages and counting, how is this better than multiple threads? You know no one is going to read every post (2k and counting)... this just blows me away is all, LOL.


If we had multiple threads they would be 2K + on Crabtree alone....that's how.
Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Hey, I just wanted to add my two cents to this ridiculously long thread...



There you go... now that that's over with.

Seriously mod's, 140 something pages and counting, how is this better than multiple threads? You know no one is going to read every post (2k and counting)... this just blows me away is all, LOL.


So you rather click on 100 different Crabtree posts everyday? I'm glad they merged all this crap into 1 thread.
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Crabtree's cousin said he'd be willing to sit out the whole year....he only sat out 40 some odd says....Crabtree has not done what his cousin said.

He said Crabtree would sit out the whole year. Crabtree didn't deny it and, to this point, has given zero indication that he plans to sign.

It doesn't really matter, though, because you're arguing semantics here.

I'll say it again (read slowly): My point is that Crabtree's decision to hold out is stupid. If you disagree, tell me why. If not, run along now.

Crabtree never acknowledged what his cousin said either.

If the 49ers decision is to let Crabtree hold out for the whole season without ever making another contract offer beyond the initial offer then it is a stupid decision on the organizations behalf.
Originally posted by fc0828:
The niners need to pick up the phone and get a face to face meeting with Parker and Crabtree. First question: do you want to be a 49er? if the answer is yes get a deal done... if the answer is no, then F*^k him and trade him in March... COMMUNICATE already.... figure out what needs to be done, and stop seating there waiting... do something!!!! seating around is not helping anybody... Even the Bengals had a face to face meeting, before they signed Smith....


yea im getting the feeling that scot and paraag are a bit out of their league right now. i remember hearing jed on sf chron live or something like that talking about how paraag does all the negotiating, and he reports to scotty, and scot reports to jed. it wouldnt surprise me if paraag didnt really know how to construct a unique contract for a pick like crabtree, he doesnt have much experience dealing with stuff like this.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Crabtree's cousin said he'd be willing to sit out the whole year....he only sat out 40 some odd says....Crabtree has not done what his cousin said.

He said Crabtree would sit out the whole year. Crabtree didn't deny it and, to this point, has given zero indication that he plans to sign.

It doesn't really matter, though, because you're arguing semantics here.

I'll say it again (read slowly): My point is that Crabtree's decision to hold out is stupid. If you disagree, tell me why. If not, run along now.

Crabtree never acknowledged what his cousin said either.

If the 49ers decision is to let Crabtree hold out for the whole season without ever making another contract offer beyond the initial offer then it is a stupid decision on the organizations behalf.

While I don't agree with breaking the slotting system, I agree it would be stupid to let him walk without trying to get creative and get something done.
  • KNRO1670
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Crabtree's cousin said he'd be willing to sit out the whole year....he only sat out 40 some odd says....Crabtree has not done what his cousin said.

He said Crabtree would sit out the whole year. Crabtree didn't deny it and, to this point, has given zero indication that he plans to sign.

It doesn't really matter, though, because you're arguing semantics here.

I'll say it again (read slowly): My point is that Crabtree's decision to hold out is stupid. If you disagree, tell me why. If not, run along now.

Crabtree never acknowledged what his cousin said either.

If the 49ers decision is to let Crabtree hold out for the whole season without ever making another contract offer beyond the initial offer then it is a stupid decision on the organizations behalf.

I found a picture of Crabtree and his cousin talking about this very thing!


[img=]
  • Blitz
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,858
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Seems most teams decided to fill needs as opposed to selecting the BPA. Outside of the Jets no team traded up into the top 10, as again it is costly especially when factoring in what one has to also pay the draft pick as well.

Or they didn't think he was the bpa. The point is that the only evidence to support the fact that Crabtree was a top-3 talent was that analysts said he was.

My point: I don't care what he thinks he's worth. He's been offered a fair deal. He's holding out for more money that he won't get. What he's doing is f**king stupid. Period.

I bet there are teams out there who if they had taken him at 10 would be willing to pay him, unlike us. Why ? Probably because players with ceilings as high as his being taken at 10 don't come around or happen often if hardly ever.

And FWIW some of those analysts are former players and or NFL execs and know talent when they see it.

The league is full of history of draftee's with ceilings higher than what has come before falling right on their ass and not amounting to anything.

Those draftee's however rarely ever fall like Crabtree did.

Normally when you get a player like that you want to get him signed. Does it really seem like the 49ers really want to get Crabtree signed with their stance ?

Look here's the deal. The guy is unproven, he could be the second coming of Jerry Rice, but he damn sure isn't until he proves otherwise, which is far from an easy thing to do (making the jump from being a top talent in the collegiate's to being one in the NFL). If this was an easy correlation, there wouldn't be much issue to this s**t, people wouldn't fall or rise in the draft at all..they would be slotted and it would pan out the way it was slotted and everything would be nice and tidy. HOWEVER, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY, TOP TALENTS IN THE COLLEGIATE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT DON'T PAN OUT AS A TOP NFL TALENT NO MATTER WHICH SLOT THEY ARE DRAFTED AT, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY HAVE FALLEN OR RISEN. IT'S A CRAP SHOOT THAT THEY WILL TRANSLATE INTO A TOP NFL TALENT.

You can't fault the organization for adhering to good business sense. They are investing in a top collegiate talent that is unproven in a league with a history full of top collegiate talents who have fallen and/or risen in the draft and have not translated into top NFL talents.


The fact is this: It's the NFL, it's an entirely different animal than the collegiates....you gotta prove yourself against the best now, every week. If you do, you get rewarded with a big contract, if you don't, your sent packing in one way or another, and you take a big cut along the way.

If we trade him for another pick and that pick busts and MC has a storied career will we still have made a move would we have adhered to a good business sense ?

Is a good business sense to not try and negotiate ? To make one offer and if the offer is balked at to walk away in hopes eventually the other side might cave and if not oh well ?

It's a team sport. Look, I want Craptree signed, not because I think he is the best, not could be the best. I could give two s**ts if he was drafted at 1, 3, 10, 60, or 200 or even came on as an undrafted FA. I want him signed because I want all the talent the team can it's hands on and I want them to get on the field and compete and then I want the best of all those to go out on Sunday and kick some ass. Craptree isn't doing any of that, hasn't done any of that in the past at this level, which makes his value (to me) less than any other talent on the team. Why?

Because, there is a standing system by which contracts are negotiated and signed in place that every single other draftee and undrafted FA in this league this year has had no problem adjusting to. That's a lot of people, and yet..here we have this ONE, ONE out of how many (500?), that somehow thinks it should be a different system for him for whatever reason. That's a crock of s**t my man, it doesn't fly when you don't have a lick of experience playing in the pro's, no matter who the f**k think you think you are talent wise, or anybody else thinks you are, including all the so called talent experts, GM's, ex player's or team mascots. And, it damn sure doesn't fly when you only have so many roster spots, and the competition for those spots is fierce, like it is in the NFL.

I don't know where you are getting this "not negotiating" thing from. The only thing we know is whatever it is (or isn't) is not being done with media involvement. That doesn't translate into there is nothing going on, including negotiations.

[ Edited by Blitz on Sep 10, 2009 at 11:27:35 ]
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Crabtree's cousin said he'd be willing to sit out the whole year....he only sat out 40 some odd says....Crabtree has not done what his cousin said.

He said Crabtree would sit out the whole year. Crabtree didn't deny it and, to this point, has given zero indication that he plans to sign.

It doesn't really matter, though, because you're arguing semantics here.

I'll say it again (read slowly): My point is that Crabtree's decision to hold out is stupid. If you disagree, tell me why. If not, run along now.

Crabtree never acknowledged what his cousin said either.

If the 49ers decision is to let Crabtree hold out for the whole season without ever making another contract offer beyond the initial offer then it is a stupid decision on the organizations behalf.

Why bother? This goes higher than just the 9ers the comish made it clear he didn’t want any rookie going too far out of the price slot so as high as 9 as low as 11 anywhere in between but Crabs is NOT getting the 5, 6, 7, slot money he wants end of story.

Sorry can’t help you bye bye
Originally posted by miked1978:
Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Hey, I just wanted to add my two cents to this ridiculously long thread...



There you go... now that that's over with.

Seriously mod's, 140 something pages and counting, how is this better than multiple threads? You know no one is going to read every post (2k and counting)... this just blows me away is all, LOL.


So you rather click on 100 different Crabtree posts everyday? I'm glad they merged all this crap into 1 thread.


There's no way I'd read 100 different threads about anything....

... but, whatever, I'm not part of the discussion until I've read every post...

... hold on, I'm on page 22... I'll be finished by next month. Maybe.
  • jame-gumb
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by KRS-1:
If the 49ers decision is to let Crabtree hold out for the whole season without ever making another contract offer beyond the initial offer then it is a stupid decision on the organizations behalf.

I don't care if it's their first or 100th offer. It's a fair offer. It's stupider for Crabtree to waste a year of pay and have to take a smaller contract than it is for SF to not pay him and trade his rights in March.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by BigMar:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by BigMar:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by BigMar:
Just a reminder....the 9ers have 2 first round picks in 2010 draft they will have to negotiate with and sign. Therfore, they Cannot cave in to Craptree outrages demands as that will clearly set a bad stage for our 2010 1st round negotiations.

9er are being MORE than fair and should not get strongarmed by Craptree.

No one knows for sure if paying Crabtree will have a negative effect on next years picks or not. Will never know until next year.

Stop speculating when you have no basis for your claim.

Please Stop it..... If the 9ers pay Craptree or any player for that matter, MILLIONS of dollars MORE than his draft slot indicates, don't sit there and try to tell us the same game won't be played next year by the agents of the first rounders we select.
Come on, get real!

Again it is not truly known. One can assume but assuming doesn't make it true. Lots of assumptions have proven to be wrong. Everyone assumed VD would be great, they assumed Reggie Bush was Jesus in Cleats...they assumed voting for George Bush was good idea....how did those turn out ?

So to quote Big Mar............Please stop it.

Come on now, you recognize what I said is close to reality. You are simply trying to not acknowlege facts. Good try, but you failed.

I have read too many of your posts that I would have liked to and no I don't recognize anything you say.

Good try but you fail. Keep on keeping on.

Re-visit reply 2220.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by BigMar:
Just a reminder....the 9ers have 2 first round picks in 2010 draft they will have to negotiate with and sign. Therfore, they Cannot cave in to Craptree outrages demands as that will clearly set a bad stage for our 2010 1st round negotiations.

9er are being MORE than fair and should not get strongarmed by Craptree.

No one knows for sure if paying Crabtree will have a negative effect on next years picks or not. Will never know until next year.

Stop speculating when you have no basis for your claim.


At the risk of speculating, something that NEVER happens here, I'm wondering if the Niners unwillingness to budge on the slotting is due to the impact their caving-in could have on pending CBA negotiations and inclusion of a rookie-cap system. They (the league and the Niners) may be worried that showing weakness now will carry-over to the bargaining table when the time comes.

Just speculating.
I wonder if Crabtree will watch the game on Sunday...