Crabtree Discussion Thread

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by jame-gumb:

Originally posted by KRS-1:
Seems most teams decided to fill needs as opposed to selecting the BPA. Outside of the Jets no team traded up into the top 10, as again it is costly especially when factoring in what one has to also pay the draft pick as well.

Or they didn't think he was the bpa. The point is that the only evidence to support the fact that Crabtree was a top-3 talent was that analysts said he was.

My point: I don't care what he thinks he's worth. He's been offered a fair deal. He's holding out for more money that he won't get. What he's doing is f**king stupid. Period.

I bet there are teams out there who if they had taken him at 10 would be willing to pay him, unlike us. Why ? Probably because players with ceilings as high as his being taken at 10 don't come around or happen often if hardly ever.

And FWIW some of those analysts are former players and or NFL execs and know talent when they see it.

I'm sure there are. SF isn't one of them and they shouldn't budge now. If they were going to pay him what he wanted, they would have done it by now. Crabtree's camp threatening to sit out the year exacerbated this whole thing.

My only point has always been that what Crabtree is doing is stupid. He's basically telling SF that he'll hang himself and SF said, "Here's some rope."

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
This is going to be an epic fail for the front office.....I feel like the niners are the new Bengals.....pay him the damn money and let's ball....we've been waiting for a true #1 since Owens left.....these guys don't grow on trees.

And please stop comparing him to Owens...because it's not even close. He's a good kid getting bad advice...it has nothing to do with his attitude.

You clearly dont know what your talking about.

You get pushed around by one 1st round rookie, you will get pushed around by all of them.

Can you support your baseless claim ?

Has a team ever paid anyone higher then what they were slotted for ?

Cleveland and Brady Quinn.

QBs are the exception.

Darelle Revis.

His base contract was in line with his slot. All he got extra was playing incentive money. Crabdouche wants GUARANTEED MONEY

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Mel Kiper, Mike Mayok, et al thought he was a top-3 talent. NFL teams thought he was the No. 10 talent. If Crabtree wants top-3 money, he should talk to the analysts.

That might be oversimplified, but it's the point. Crabtree thinks he's better than DHB and wants to be paid like it. The bottom line is that worth is defined only as the price someone is willing to pay. The price SF is willing to pay is fair. If Crabtree doesn't like it, he can sit out a year and take less money next year AND earn $0 this year.

Have factual evidence NFL teams thought he was a top 10 and not top 3 talent ?

Detroit - Has Calvin Johnson, needed a face for the franchise. Drafted a top 5 player but not top 3.

St.Louis - Drafted a likely top 3 talent. Had they not had such a porous OL they may have drafted Curry, Crabtree or gone with a new face of the franchise in Sanchez as their QB situation looks dim.

KC- Already has a #1 WR in Dwayne Bowe. Switched to a new base scheme on defense and lack the personnel to run it so reached for a 5 technique. Probably would have preferred to trade down since they had no 2nd rounder but the cost was too much for other teams to do so when you factor in the money you have to pay the guy you take here.

Seattle - Took what looked like one of the 2 best players in the draft and JP's replacement. Also had just invested a lot in Housh and Burleson and Branch also have a lot invested in them.

Cleveland - Traded down with the NYJ (picks # 17 & 52 + DE Kenyon Coleman, DB Abram Elam, QB Brett Ratlif....17 & 52 = #9 according to the chart and Elam and Coleman are starters on the Browns roster).

Cincy - Are seemingly deep at WR (85, signed Coles, have Henry + and 2nd and 3rd round draft pick from 2008 draft pick). Had HUGE holes at OT, took a chance on Andre Smith, but I'd bet Crabtree would have graded out higher by their scouts.

Oakland - No 40 time registered = Al Davis won't draft you.

Jacksonville - Needed help at WR and at OT. Ended up spending first 2 picks on OT's to have bookend tandem to put in front of teams best player MJD.

GB - A GM who almost always selects BPA regardless of position took the DL here as they are also switching base schemes and questions and concerns with some of their current DL talent. Came away with a kid who fits both the 1 gap and 2 gap scheme and can play the nose or the 5 tech.

Seems most teams decided to fill needs as opposed to selecting the BPA. Outside of the Jets no team traded up into the top 10, as again it is costly especially when factoring in what one has to also pay the draft pick as well.

great points, and this highlights again why you have to base these negotiations on reality, not on mock drafts. Teams make decisions on draft day for one reason or another: either they didn't think they needed Crabtree, or they needed someone else more, or they just had others players rated higher than him. If they Raiders had DHB rated higher than Crabs, well, that's their prerogative, and that's the reality. Crabtree might be a top-3 talent, but being a talent and a selection are two different things.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Method:
I wanna make a Crabtree: Vote Thread with two options "Sign him whatever the cost," or "Don't pay him more then his slot is worth"

but it'd probably just get locked. lol

There has to be a "meet in the middle" option.

Originally posted by Method:
I wanna make a Crabtree: Vote Thread with two options "Sign him whatever the cost," or "Don't pay him more then his slot is worth"

but it'd probably just get locked. lol

A Webzone opinion poll doesn't matter, we don't have the checkbook.

My personal opinion is that, IF Crabtree is really a unique talent, I would be OK paying him more than normal slotting would dictate.

Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Method:
I wanna make a Crabtree: Vote Thread with two options "Sign him whatever the cost," or "Don't pay him more then his slot is worth"

but it'd probably just get locked. lol

There has to be a "meet in the middle" option.

Meeting in the middle would still be paying over slot.

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
My personal opinion is that, IF Crabtree is really a unique talent, I would be OK paying him more than normal slotting would dictate.

Maybe that's SF's opinion too and they don't think he's really an unique talent...

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by jame-gumb:

Originally posted by KRS-1:
Seems most teams decided to fill needs as opposed to selecting the BPA. Outside of the Jets no team traded up into the top 10, as again it is costly especially when factoring in what one has to also pay the draft pick as well.

Or they didn't think he was the bpa. The point is that the only evidence to support the fact that Crabtree was a top-3 talent was that analysts said he was.

My point: I don't care what he thinks he's worth. He's been offered a fair deal. He's holding out for more money that he won't get. What he's doing is f**king stupid. Period.

I bet there are teams out there who if they had taken him at 10 would be willing to pay him, unlike us. Why ? Probably because players with ceilings as high as his being taken at 10 don't come around or happen often if hardly ever.

And FWIW some of those analysts are former players and or NFL execs and know talent when they see it.

Talent like Alex Smith??? Just cause they were former players, does not mean they can spot talent that will or will not translate to the NFL...

There are also execs turned analysts who have made great moves like take Super Mario over Reggie Bush.

That same argument can be used against you. Just because teams might not have had Crabtree as one of the top players on their board doesn't mean they didn't have a prospect up there who will be the next Alex Smith or Ryan Leaf.

I'm hoping we can get something for him next year, hopefully a couple of draft picks, we already have two first rounders for next year, it'a all gravy if we can get a late first rounder and maybe a third...I hope we get SOMETHING for his punk ass ..I just dont see him signing with us, so we might as well trade him prior to next years draft.

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:

Originally posted by Method:
I wanna make a Crabtree: Vote Thread with two options "Sign him whatever the cost," or "Don't pay him more then his slot is worth"

but it'd probably just get locked. lol

A Webzone opinion poll doesn't matter, we don't have the checkbook.

My personal opinion is that, IF Crabtree is really a unique talent, I would be OK paying him more than normal slotting would dictate.

He may have been a "unique" talent in college. However, he has proven ZERO in the NFL.

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by jame-gumb:

Originally posted by KRS-1:
Seems most teams decided to fill needs as opposed to selecting the BPA. Outside of the Jets no team traded up into the top 10, as again it is costly especially when factoring in what one has to also pay the draft pick as well.

Or they didn't think he was the bpa. The point is that the only evidence to support the fact that Crabtree was a top-3 talent was that analysts said he was.

My point: I don't care what he thinks he's worth. He's been offered a fair deal. He's holding out for more money that he won't get. What he's doing is f**king stupid. Period.

I bet there are teams out there who if they had taken him at 10 would be willing to pay him, unlike us. Why ? Probably because players with ceilings as high as his being taken at 10 don't come around or happen often if hardly ever.

And FWIW some of those analysts are former players and or NFL execs and know talent when they see it.

The league is full of history of draftee's with ceilings higher than what has come before falling right on their ass and not amounting to anything.

Those draftee's however rarely ever fall like Crabtree did.

Normally when you get a player like that you want to get him signed. Does it really seem like the 49ers really want to get Crabtree signed with their stance ?

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
This is going to be an epic fail for the front office.....I feel like the niners are the new Bengals.....pay him the damn money and let's ball....we've been waiting for a true #1 since Owens left.....these guys don't grow on trees.

And please stop comparing him to Owens...because it's not even close. He's a good kid getting bad advice...it has nothing to do with his attitude.

Epic fail in your post: Crabtree isn't a true #1. He's not even a two or three or worthy of the PS yet. In fact, he's at the bottom of the pile looking up. He's an unproven rookie who you could give the whole enchilada to and it still wouldn't make him anything different than a roll of the dice on the franchise's part. That's why he gets paid for his draft slot, and not a damn thing more.

I'm going to laugh my ass off at the people here who are hanging on Craptree's nutsack if the little s**t turns out to be the next JJ Stokes, because it's entirely, equally, possible he could as much as not turn out that way, no matter what the franchise does or doesn't do, no matter how much people want otherwise.

I understand your upset...but if you take the emotions out of it and look at this thing rationally...I think you would see that a lot of draft experts had him as one of the top three players in the draft. I realize the draft is a crapshoot and players you think are going to be great sometimes end up not even being starters..... but from what I've seen from this kid he's a stud.....and I would hate to miss out on him(IMO a sure thing) because we don't want to pay a few more million......sounds like the Yorks of old.

Originally posted by jame-gumb:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by jame-gumb:

Originally posted by KRS-1:
Seems most teams decided to fill needs as opposed to selecting the BPA. Outside of the Jets no team traded up into the top 10, as again it is costly especially when factoring in what one has to also pay the draft pick as well.

Or they didn't think he was the bpa. The point is that the only evidence to support the fact that Crabtree was a top-3 talent was that analysts said he was.

My point: I don't care what he thinks he's worth. He's been offered a fair deal. He's holding out for more money that he won't get. What he's doing is f**king stupid. Period.

I bet there are teams out there who if they had taken him at 10 would be willing to pay him, unlike us. Why ? Probably because players with ceilings as high as his being taken at 10 don't come around or happen often if hardly ever.

And FWIW some of those analysts are former players and or NFL execs and know talent when they see it.

I'm sure there are. SF isn't one of them and they shouldn't budge now. If they were going to pay him what he wanted, they would have done it by now. Crabtree's camp threatening to sit out the year exacerbated this whole thing.

My only point has always been that what Crabtree is doing is stupid. He's basically telling SF that he'll hang himself and SF said, "Here's some rope."

Crabtree's camp didn't say this his cousin did. His cousin is not his camp.

His agent did not stand by that claim.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
This is going to be an epic fail for the front office.....I feel like the niners are the new Bengals.....pay him the damn money and let's ball....we've been waiting for a true #1 since Owens left.....these guys don't grow on trees.

And please stop comparing him to Owens...because it's not even close. He's a good kid getting bad advice...it has nothing to do with his attitude.

You clearly dont know what your talking about.

You get pushed around by one 1st round rookie, you will get pushed around by all of them.

Can you support your baseless claim ?

Has a team ever paid anyone higher then what they were slotted for ?

Cleveland and Brady Quinn.

QBs are the exception.

Darelle Revis.

His base contract was in line with his slot. All he got extra was playing incentive money. Crabdouche wants GUARANTEED MONEY

That's hearsay. No one really knows for sure if he would take a deal with extra playing incentives.

Nonetheless Revis and co. were able to negotiate a better contract overall that the previous and following years slotted players did and the Jets haven't had issues signing other 1st rounders.

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by jame-gumb:

Originally posted by KRS-1:
Seems most teams decided to fill needs as opposed to selecting the BPA. Outside of the Jets no team traded up into the top 10, as again it is costly especially when factoring in what one has to also pay the draft pick as well.

Or they didn't think he was the bpa. The point is that the only evidence to support the fact that Crabtree was a top-3 talent was that analysts said he was.

My point: I don't care what he thinks he's worth. He's been offered a fair deal. He's holding out for more money that he won't get. What he's doing is f**king stupid. Period.

I bet there are teams out there who if they had taken him at 10 would be willing to pay him, unlike us. Why ? Probably because players with ceilings as high as his being taken at 10 don't come around or happen often if hardly ever.

And FWIW some of those analysts are former players and or NFL execs and know talent when they see it.

The league is full of history of draftee's with ceilings higher than what has come before falling right on their ass and not amounting to anything.

Those draftee's however rarely ever fall like Crabtree did.

Normally when you get a player like that you want to get him signed. Does it really seem like the 49ers really want to get Crabtree signed with their stance ?

Better question>>> "does it really seem like Craptree wants to play for the 9ers with his stance?"