There are 1,066 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

We have the same exact squad as last year! add cofee minus DeShaun Foster

  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,699
A full year of Hill and Coffee I think will make a big difference this year.
Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
With Crabtree holding out and B. Jones hurt we have pretty much the same unit except for Spurlock! The O-line is the same group! DB's are the same minus Walt & Roman! Same LBer's, added a ILB (Mckillop). Same D-line added Evans. Same QB's different 3rd & 4th (Huard & Davis).

So why would we expect different results with the same players and two new coaches?
We do look better but when it is all said and done we have the same team! Wonder if SM really believes in our guys or if we are just being cheap again?

Your thoughts?

How its different:

1. No Nolan and Singletary from the beginning: A number of the team's recent woes were blamed on Nolan. At some level, those concerns were verified by Singletary getting better results while taking over on the fly in the middle of the season. This year, Singletary got a full off-season and TC to put his program in.

2. No more "hybrid": With Nolan gone, so is the 3-4/4-3 hybrid that Nolan liked with the true 3-4 replacing it under Manusky. Over the 2nd half of the season last year, the defense improved from the mid-20's to 13th overall, again giving some credence to perhaps the players were not being used in the best way by Nolan.

3. No JTO: After Game 3 last year, JTO slowly imploded and the team got better when Hill took over. Hill is the starter from the beginning and has a better track record at this point that JTO had last year at this time. Obviously, you have to believe Hill is for real and not a function of a late season surge against bad teams to really see this as a vast improvement.

4. New Offense: While Martz's offense helped in terms of overall points and yards, it also hurt in terms of turnovers, sacks and time of possession. The premise of hiring Raye was that his offense fit the 49ers' pieces better and all things considered the offense would be better as a run first offense featuring Gore at RB instead of a lot of 4 and 5 receiver patterns with minimal protection for the QB.

There are other differences but you get the idea....

Very well said!
I was thinking the same thing a couple days ago. The starting roster is VERY similar. The only differences will be Norris, Bly, Goldson, and Manny. Some might add Morgan. Battle is back to the number three receiver, just like last year.

Not sure any of the backups (Brooks, Evans, Coffee) are going to make much of a difference at all, so the team that was on the field at the end of last year is virtually the same as the 2009 Model.

Based on your perspective, this lack of turnover could be a good thing, or bad thing. The Niners played pretty well at the end of last year (albeit, they were playing a LOT of fading teams), so the starters did perform at a decent level.

At the same time, I think we can all agree that this team is still talent-starved, and our use, or lack of use in free agent money might be a cause for problems this season. For every good pickup (Bly), there are equally bad pickups (M. Smith).

To me, this season comes down to three major things:
1) Can the Niners incorporate the new offense effectively, especially along the offensive line?
AND
2) Can we get to the passer?
AND
3) Can our rookies from last year make a difference? We need a big year from Morgan, Rachal and Balmer to see a marked improvement in 2009, and all three have looked average to poor so far this preseason.

In all three cases above, the Niners look unprepared for 2009. Now, it is preseason, and the games mean nothing, so there is no reason to panic. But, the first team offense is struggling, and the pass rush is virtually non-existent. It was embarrassing to watch the difference between our two OLB's and the Cowboys' two OLB's (Ware and Spencer). We have the worst starting OLB tandem of any 3-4 team in the NFL. So, what do we do: We draft a backup running back with the 74th overall. Brilliant!!

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Sep 1, 2009 at 14:25:41 ]
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,932
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by lamontb:
I been saying this since May. I think most believe that getting rid of Nolan makes the team better. I think it makes them marginally better but it all comes down to players and the Niners didn't improve there players. I can still see them winning 1 or 2 more games than they did last year, but 10-6. or 11-5 isn't happening til they upgrade the roster.

I've been saying this since may too! But Marvel smith and no Nolan = playoffs

Marvel retired lol

kinda my point. Marvel Smith and No Nolan was suppose to = playoffs (to many on here) When the fact remains we still have the same squad that beat up some handicapped teams limping down the stretch.
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by lamontb:
I been saying this since May. I think most believe that getting rid of Nolan makes the team better. I think it makes them marginally better but it all comes down to players and the Niners didn't improve there players. I can still see them winning 1 or 2 more games than they did last year, but 10-6. or 11-5 isn't happening til they upgrade the roster.

I've been saying this since may too! But Marvel smith and no Nolan = playoffs

Marvel retired lol

kinda my point. Marvel Smith and No Nolan was suppose to = playoffs (to many on here) When the fact remains we still have the same squad that beat up some handicapped teams limping down the stretch.

Yeah but last year, we couldn't do much when Gore rested. Coffee could be a breath of fresh air to our offense to keep it from getting to a dead halt when Gore rests. I think the addition of Coffee is huge, IF he can keep up top level play.
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,932
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by lamontb:
I been saying this since May. I think most believe that getting rid of Nolan makes the team better. I think it makes them marginally better but it all comes down to players and the Niners didn't improve there players. I can still see them winning 1 or 2 more games than they did last year, but 10-6. or 11-5 isn't happening til they upgrade the roster.

I've been saying this since may too! But Marvel smith and no Nolan = playoffs

Marvel retired lol

kinda my point. Marvel Smith and No Nolan was suppose to = playoffs (to many on here) When the fact remains we still have the same squad that beat up some handicapped teams limping down the stretch.

Yeah but last year, we couldn't do much when Gore rested. Coffee could be a breath of fresh air to our offense to keep it from getting to a dead halt when Gore rests. I think the addition of Coffee is huge, IF he can keep up top level play.

While I agree we definitely needed an upgrade at the backup RB spot. It doesn't make this offense THAT much better
Same team is not really the same team under new direction from a no nonsense coach.The NINERS are relatively a young team.The team in my opinion will be more in unison with one another and will know how to react better toward game time situations from working togather as a unit for a longer period of time,(unless there is a meltdown).I think the mental chemistry is different.They seem more confident.The NINERS got a lot to prove this season and I think they'll get it done.Although the pre's got some worried.I think we'll see different results,with the few tweeks made at R/B and Coaching staff.The o/c and d/c might find ways to better utilize players around the field.Besides in the era of cap and trade,its really hard to keep a same team,unless your New England.We may win 1or 2 more games than last year maybe 3,I say give it another 2years and a couple more drafts and we will be in a good position,to make wildcard positions in the playoffs.But then again maybe its not the quality of the player,but more of the upper management and ownership trying to get a better feel of owning a football team,and the problems lie within them and they just have'nt figured it out.Just a thought.

[ Edited by TRAVELER_9ER on Sep 1, 2009 at 18:47:44 ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I was thinking the same thing a couple days ago. The starting roster is VERY similar. The only differences will be Norris, Bly, Goldson, and Manny. Some might add Morgan. Battle is back to the number three receiver, just like last year.

Not sure any of the backups (Brooks, Evans, Coffee) are going to make much of a difference at all, so the team that was on the field at the end of last year is virtually the same as the 2009 Model.

Based on your perspective, this lack of turnover could be a good thing, or bad thing. The Niners played pretty well at the end of last year (albeit, they were playing a LOT of fading teams), so the starters did perform at a decent level.

At the same time, I think we can all agree that this team is still talent-starved, and our use, or lack of use in free agent money might be a cause for problems this season. For every good pickup (Bly), there are equally bad pickups (M. Smith).

To me, this season comes down to three major things:
1) Can the Niners incorporate the new offense effectively, especially along the offensive line?
AND
2) Can we get to the passer?
AND
3) Can our rookies from last year make a difference? We need a big year from Morgan, Rachal and Balmer to see a marked improvement in 2009, and all three have looked average to poor so far this preseason.

In all three cases above, the Niners look unprepared for 2009. Now, it is preseason, and the games mean nothing, so there is no reason to panic. But, the first team offense is struggling, and the pass rush is virtually non-existent. It was embarrassing to watch the difference between our two OLB's and the Cowboys' two OLB's (Ware and Spencer). We have the worst starting OLB tandem of any 3-4 team in the NFL. So, what do we do: We draft a backup running back with the 74th overall. Brilliant!!

What's more puzzling is that there are no pass rushers anywhere on the roster. It's not like they took a flyer on a guy late in the draft and hopes he develops. Or brought in a second or 3rd tier guy via FA in hopes he can add some pressure. They just totally abandoned the idea of upgrading the pass rush. and it's concerning b/c it seems that Manusky, and Sing are a bit surprised that Manny and Parys aren't gonna get it done. They should have been able to see this sooner, rather than later. Hope these schemes they have yet to show are really effective.

Offensively I'm starting to get a bad feeling that our WR's aren't getting open.
Parys Haralson
Dashon Goldson
Josh Morgon
Tarell Brown
Kentwan Balmer
Chilo Rachal
Joe Staley
Patrick Willis
Vernon Davis
Manny Lawson
Mike Singletary

Who are these guys? The fun and scary part about being a 49er fan is we dont truly know the ceiling for any of them. How good or "not good" are they going to be.

Not to mention this years draft class which has imo been the best part of preseason.
Glenn Coffee
Scott Mckillop
Nate Davis
Kory Sheets
Crabtree
Originally posted by natrone06:
Parys Haralson
Dashon Goldson
Josh Morgon
Tarell Brown
Kentwan Balmer
Chilo Rachal
Joe Staley
Patrick Willis
Vernon Davis
Manny Lawson

Mike Singletary

Who are these guys? The fun and scary part about being a 49er fan is we dont truly know the ceiling for any of them. How good or "not good" are they going to be.

Not to mention this years draft class which has imo been the best part of preseason.
Glenn Coffee
Scott Mckillop
Nate Davis
Kory Sheets
Crabtree

If these to can finally reach their damn potential things could change for the better for both offense and defense. But just like you said, nobody knows the ceiling for these players. For all we know they already hit their ceiling
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by natrone06:
Parys Haralson
Dashon Goldson
Josh Morgon
Tarell Brown
Kentwan Balmer
Chilo Rachal
Joe Staley
Patrick Willis
Vernon Davis
Manny Lawson

Mike Singletary

Who are these guys? The fun and scary part about being a 49er fan is we dont truly know the ceiling for any of them. How good or "not good" are they going to be.

Not to mention this years draft class which has imo been the best part of preseason.
Glenn Coffee
Scott Mckillop
Nate Davis
Kory Sheets
Crabtree

If these to can finally reach their damn potential things could change for the better for both offense and defense. But just like you said, nobody knows the ceiling for these players. For all we know they already hit their ceiling

Very True
Originally posted by natrone06:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by natrone06:
Parys Haralson
Dashon Goldson
Josh Morgon
Tarell Brown
Kentwan Balmer
Chilo Rachal
Joe Staley
Patrick Willis
Vernon Davis
Manny Lawson

Mike Singletary

Who are these guys? The fun and scary part about being a 49er fan is we dont truly know the ceiling for any of them. How good or "not good" are they going to be.

Not to mention this years draft class which has imo been the best part of preseason.
Glenn Coffee
Scott Mckillop
Nate Davis
Kory Sheets
Crabtree

If these to can finally reach their damn potential things could change for the better for both offense and defense. But just like you said, nobody knows the ceiling for these players. For all we know they already hit their ceiling

Very True

lets hope not!!!
Glen Coffee
Kory Sheets
Moran Norris
Brandon Jones
Michael Crabtree (maybe)
Dre Bly
Goldson as starter
Demetric Evans
Marques Harris
Shawntae Spencer for full season
other rookies

without
Mike Nolan
JT O Turnover
Mark Roman as starter
Barry Sims as starter

I'm sure I'm missing some, but this definitely isn't the same team as last year.

[ Edited by Schulzy on Sep 1, 2009 at 19:27:09 ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I was thinking the same thing a couple days ago. The starting roster is VERY similar. The only differences will be Norris, Bly, Goldson, and Manny. Some might add Morgan. Battle is back to the number three receiver, just like last year.

Not sure any of the backups (Brooks, Evans, Coffee) are going to make much of a difference at all, so the team that was on the field at the end of last year is virtually the same as the 2009 Model.

Based on your perspective, this lack of turnover could be a good thing, or bad thing. The Niners played pretty well at the end of last year (albeit, they were playing a LOT of fading teams), so the starters did perform at a decent level.

At the same time, I think we can all agree that this team is still talent-starved, and our use, or lack of use in free agent money might be a cause for problems this season. For every good pickup (Bly), there are equally bad pickups (M. Smith).

To me, this season comes down to three major things:
1) Can the Niners incorporate the new offense effectively, especially along the offensive line?
AND
2) Can we get to the passer?
AND
3) Can our rookies from last year make a difference? We need a big year from Morgan, Rachal and Balmer to see a marked improvement in 2009, and all three have looked average to poor so far this preseason.

In all three cases above, the Niners look unprepared for 2009. Now, it is preseason, and the games mean nothing, so there is no reason to panic. But, the first team offense is struggling, and the pass rush is virtually non-existent. It was embarrassing to watch the difference between our two OLB's and the Cowboys' two OLB's (Ware and Spencer). We have the worst starting OLB tandem of any 3-4 team in the NFL. So, what do we do: We draft a backup running back with the 74th overall. Brilliant!!

AND...I have to agree with you. This team simply did not add the pieces that it needed to add in order to solidify improvement...AND it does not appear to have the mental make-up to execute Sing's vision of domination...AND could have added some players with better skill sets and tougher mind-sets but FAILED to do so. I am with you on this one. Someone is too damn conservative.
One thing that never changes, are the fans.