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I see the post but not the poll. Pay him?

I see the post but not the poll. Pay him?

Originally posted by krizay:
When you sign Free agents you don't base the contract on what other teams are paying players. You don't base it on what so & so got last year. If that was the case Clements and Jennings wouldn't be 9ers. They had to pay them what they are worth or what they think he's worth.


Does Scotty Mc think he's a a #10 pick?


Quote:
Q: Talk about Crabtree, was there any way you imagined him falling to you? How quickly was that decision made?

“I thought a little bit about it, because of the fact that he did not work out at the combine. He had the foot surgery. I thought that would be the only reason that he would make it to us, in this year’s crop of players up there. But, I really didn’t think it would happen. That’s a long way for a guy like that to fall. ”

Q: Where was he on your board?

“He was high. I don’t want to get into specifics, but he was definitely one of the higher guys.”

Apparently Scotty thought Crabtree was higher than a 10th pick. So why not pay him higher than the #10 pick. Scotty thought he was the best WR in the draft (one can only assume.) So pay him as the best WR in the draft.

You guys we're cool with Clements getting paid more than he's worth. Even though his play up to that point NEVER suggested he be the highest paid defensive player ever. You guys were cool with Jennings getting his contract.

If you thought he was the best WR in the draft, one of the top players in the draft, don't be afraid to pay him as such. JUST LIKE FREE AGENCY.

Because the draft is slotted and you know what Free Agents can do in the pro's. With rookies, you just have some college tape and a vague hope he can perform in the NFL. Its no where near the same thing.

And I don't see DHB's agent rushing to give back the money he got for number 7 even though he was a reach that shouldn't have gone any where near that early. Crabtree's agent also represents the guy the Chiefs reached for at #3. I bet he's not making the value argument with them.


Re: the poll - I feel like saying "pay him" because its not my money, but I would definitely sit him if I was a GM.

[ Edited by Overkill on Aug 2, 2009 at 13:30:10 ]
Originally posted by krizay:
When you sign Free agents you don't base the contract on what other teams are paying players. You don't base it on what so & so got last year. If that was the case Clements and Jennings wouldn't be 9ers. They had to pay them what they are worth or what they think he's worth.


Does Scotty Mc think he's a a #10 pick?


Quote:
Q: Talk about Crabtree, was there any way you imagined him falling to you? How quickly was that decision made?

“I thought a little bit about it, because of the fact that he did not work out at the combine. He had the foot surgery. I thought that would be the only reason that he would make it to us, in this year’s crop of players up there. But, I really didn’t think it would happen. That’s a long way for a guy like that to fall. ”

Q: Where was he on your board?

“He was high. I don’t want to get into specifics, but he was definitely one of the higher guys.”

Apparently Scotty thought Crabtree was higher than a 10th pick. So why not pay him higher than the #10 pick. Scotty thought he was the best WR in the draft (one can only assume.) So pay him as the best WR in the draft.

You guys we're cool with Clements getting paid more than he's worth. Even though his play up to that point NEVER suggested he be the highest paid defensive player ever. You guys were cool with Jennings getting his contract.

If you thought he was the best WR in the draft, one of the top players in the draft, don't be afraid to pay him as such. JUST LIKE FREE AGENCY.

You need to sit back and remember that his money comes from our Webzone profit sharing money. Duh!
just pay him....if he wants more than bay...give it 2 him
Your pole is flawed.

Pay him top 5 money, like his agent is asking?
Pay him 10th pick money, where he was drafted?

No one is proposing we don't pay him, but the 49ers are nuts if they pay him more than Hayward-Bey. I could maybe see an incentive laden contract that would allow him to make more money than Bey, but to just hand him that kind of money because of his pre-draft ranking is BS. His base pay and guaranteed money is #10 pick money.
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,924
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by krizay:
When you sign Free agents you don't base the contract on what other teams are paying players. You don't base it on what so & so got last year. If that was the case Clements and Jennings wouldn't be 9ers. They had to pay them what they are worth or what they think he's worth.


Does Scotty Mc think he's a a #10 pick?


Quote:
Q: Talk about Crabtree, was there any way you imagined him falling to you? How quickly was that decision made?

“I thought a little bit about it, because of the fact that he did not work out at the combine. He had the foot surgery. I thought that would be the only reason that he would make it to us, in this year’s crop of players up there. But, I really didn’t think it would happen. That’s a long way for a guy like that to fall. ”

Q: Where was he on your board?

“He was high. I don’t want to get into specifics, but he was definitely one of the higher guys.”

Apparently Scotty thought Crabtree was higher than a 10th pick. So why not pay him higher than the #10 pick. Scotty thought he was the best WR in the draft (one can only assume.) So pay him as the best WR in the draft.

You guys we're cool with Clements getting paid more than he's worth. Even though his play up to that point NEVER suggested he be the highest paid defensive player ever. You guys were cool with Jennings getting his contract.

If you thought he was the best WR in the draft, one of the top players in the draft, don't be afraid to pay him as such. JUST LIKE FREE AGENCY.

Because the draft is slotted and you know what Free Agents can do in the pro's. With rookies, you just have some college tape and a vague hope he can perform in the NFL. Its no where near the same thing.

And I don't see DHB's agent rushing to give back the money he got for number 7 even though he was a reach that shouldn't have gone any where near that early. Crabtree's agent also represents the guy the Chiefs reached for at #3. I bet he's not making the value argument with them.


Re: the poll - I feel like saying "pay him" because its not my money, but I would definitely sit him if I was a GM.

the draft is not slotted. Which is why we are having this discussion. As for your Free agency comment. Did Clement show before we signed him he was the best defensive player in the league? No so why pay him to be? Did Jennings show he was fragile in Buffalo? Yes! So why pay him thinking he wouldn't be here?

LOL They are reaches in OUR OPINION. Their employers selected them because they thought they were the best at their respective positions. Thus they will/have paid them as such. So no need to make that value argument. Crab's employer thought he was a top player. thus, he should be paid as such.
Originally posted by 24KGold:
Originally posted by Genius1310:
We all know the story. We've all heard the details. What's your opinion? Do we pay Crabs? I say Hell No.

I say Hell Yeah! Pay Crabtree and get him to camp ASAP! I would give him a nice signing bonus (enough to keep him happy), then base his salary primarily on performance incentives. He'll have the ability to make Top 5 Pick money based on his performance throughout the extent of his 4-5 year contract.

In my opinion, Crabtree is a phenom and can be a Larry Fitzgerald-type football player. Just imagine when we get into the Red Zone and we have the options to either throw to Crabtree or run Frank Gore. That's what Crabtree can do for our offense.

This guy will make an immediate impact just in Red Zone presence alone.

Fitz was widely regarded as the #1 prospect in the 2004 draft. He went #3. He didn't ask for #1 pick money. I'm fairly sure Robert Gallery got paid more than him.

As a side note, boy the Raiders are stupid. Heyward-Bay instead of Crabs and Gallery instead of Fitz.
  • krizay
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Originally posted by haggard:
Originally posted by 24KGold:
Originally posted by Genius1310:
We all know the story. We've all heard the details. What's your opinion? Do we pay Crabs? I say Hell No.

I say Hell Yeah! Pay Crabtree and get him to camp ASAP! I would give him a nice signing bonus (enough to keep him happy), then base his salary primarily on performance incentives. He'll have the ability to make Top 5 Pick money based on his performance throughout the extent of his 4-5 year contract.

In my opinion, Crabtree is a phenom and can be a Larry Fitzgerald-type football player. Just imagine when we get into the Red Zone and we have the options to either throw to Crabtree or run Frank Gore. That's what Crabtree can do for our offense.

This guy will make an immediate impact just in Red Zone presence alone.

Fitz was widely regarded as the #1 prospect in the 2004 draft. He went #3. He didn't ask for #1 pick money. I'm fairly sure Robert Gallery got paid more than him.

As a side note, boy the Raiders are stupid. Heyward-Bay instead of Crabs and Gallery instead of Fitz.

Quote:
Fitzgerald that year signed an NFL-record six-year, $60 million contract


ironically his agent,

Quote:
Graves and Fitzgerald’s agents, Eugene Parker and Paul Lawrence, negotiated this deal in 2004, and the escalators in Larry’s contract were all achieved in the first four years
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by krizay:
When you sign Free agents you don't base the contract on what other teams are paying players. You don't base it on what so & so got last year. If that was the case Clements and Jennings wouldn't be 9ers. They had to pay them what they are worth or what they think he's worth.


Does Scotty Mc think he's a a #10 pick?


Quote:
Q: Talk about Crabtree, was there any way you imagined him falling to you? How quickly was that decision made?

“I thought a little bit about it, because of the fact that he did not work out at the combine. He had the foot surgery. I thought that would be the only reason that he would make it to us, in this year’s crop of players up there. But, I really didn’t think it would happen. That’s a long way for a guy like that to fall. ”

Q: Where was he on your board?

“He was high. I don’t want to get into specifics, but he was definitely one of the higher guys.”

Apparently Scotty thought Crabtree was higher than a 10th pick. So why not pay him higher than the #10 pick. Scotty thought he was the best WR in the draft (one can only assume.) So pay him as the best WR in the draft.

You guys we're cool with Clements getting paid more than he's worth. Even though his play up to that point NEVER suggested he be the highest paid defensive player ever. You guys were cool with Jennings getting his contract.

If you thought he was the best WR in the draft, one of the top players in the draft, don't be afraid to pay him as such. JUST LIKE FREE AGENCY.

Because the draft is slotted and you know what Free Agents can do in the pro's. With rookies, you just have some college tape and a vague hope he can perform in the NFL. Its no where near the same thing.

And I don't see DHB's agent rushing to give back the money he got for number 7 even though he was a reach that shouldn't have gone any where near that early. Crabtree's agent also represents the guy the Chiefs reached for at #3. I bet he's not making the value argument with them.


Re: the poll - I feel like saying "pay him" because its not my money, but I would definitely sit him if I was a GM.

the draft is not slotted. Which is why we are having this discussion. As for your Free agency comment. Did Clement show before we signed him he was the best defensive player in the league? No so why pay him to be? Did Jennings show he was fragile in Buffalo? Yes! So why pay him thinking he wouldn't be here?

LOL They are reaches in OUR OPINION. Their employers selected them because they thought they were the best at their respective positions. Thus they will/have paid them as such. So no need to make that value argument. Crab's employer thought he was a top player. thus, he should be paid as such.

Besides a QB, has any player received a contract substantially above their slot? Unlike the NBA draft, the NFL draft isn't by rule slotted, but it practice it has always been slotted. A WR asking to get paid up to 5 spots higher than he was drafted is new territory. Even with the QBs, I don't think anyone has made the kind of contract jump that Crabs is asking for.

Brady Quinn was projected higher than he went. His agent thought he deserved more money than where he was drafted. We know how that worked out.
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by haggard:
Originally posted by 24KGold:
Originally posted by Genius1310:
We all know the story. We've all heard the details. What's your opinion? Do we pay Crabs? I say Hell No.

I say Hell Yeah! Pay Crabtree and get him to camp ASAP! I would give him a nice signing bonus (enough to keep him happy), then base his salary primarily on performance incentives. He'll have the ability to make Top 5 Pick money based on his performance throughout the extent of his 4-5 year contract.

In my opinion, Crabtree is a phenom and can be a Larry Fitzgerald-type football player. Just imagine when we get into the Red Zone and we have the options to either throw to Crabtree or run Frank Gore. That's what Crabtree can do for our offense.

This guy will make an immediate impact just in Red Zone presence alone.

Fitz was widely regarded as the #1 prospect in the 2004 draft. He went #3. He didn't ask for #1 pick money. I'm fairly sure Robert Gallery got paid more than him.

As a side note, boy the Raiders are stupid. Heyward-Bay instead of Crabs and Gallery instead of Fitz.

Quote:
Fitzgerald that year signed an NFL-record six-year, $60 million contract


ironically his agent,

Quote:
Graves and Fitzgerald’s agents, Eugene Parker and Paul Lawrence, negotiated this deal in 2004, and the escalators in Larry’s contract were all achieved in the first four years

Interesting, did not know that. Did he take home more money than Manning?

I think most people are fine with escalators, and if Crabs does what Fitz did his first few years everyone wins. I'm not OK with base pay and guaranteed money that jumps him up into the top 5.
I smell a "Mesuan Johnson" in the making! pay he what's 'FAIR" and no more.... unless AB say's we have the cap room!
Originally posted by haggard:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by krizay:
When you sign Free agents you don't base the contract on what other teams are paying players. You don't base it on what so & so got last year. If that was the case Clements and Jennings wouldn't be 9ers. They had to pay them what they are worth or what they think he's worth.


Does Scotty Mc think he's a a #10 pick?


Quote:
Q: Talk about Crabtree, was there any way you imagined him falling to you? How quickly was that decision made?

“I thought a little bit about it, because of the fact that he did not work out at the combine. He had the foot surgery. I thought that would be the only reason that he would make it to us, in this year’s crop of players up there. But, I really didn’t think it would happen. That’s a long way for a guy like that to fall. ”

Q: Where was he on your board?

“He was high. I don’t want to get into specifics, but he was definitely one of the higher guys.”

Apparently Scotty thought Crabtree was higher than a 10th pick. So why not pay him higher than the #10 pick. Scotty thought he was the best WR in the draft (one can only assume.) So pay him as the best WR in the draft.

You guys we're cool with Clements getting paid more than he's worth. Even though his play up to that point NEVER suggested he be the highest paid defensive player ever. You guys were cool with Jennings getting his contract.

If you thought he was the best WR in the draft, one of the top players in the draft, don't be afraid to pay him as such. JUST LIKE FREE AGENCY.

Because the draft is slotted and you know what Free Agents can do in the pro's. With rookies, you just have some college tape and a vague hope he can perform in the NFL. Its no where near the same thing.

And I don't see DHB's agent rushing to give back the money he got for number 7 even though he was a reach that shouldn't have gone any where near that early. Crabtree's agent also represents the guy the Chiefs reached for at #3. I bet he's not making the value argument with them.


Re: the poll - I feel like saying "pay him" because its not my money, but I would definitely sit him if I was a GM.

the draft is not slotted. Which is why we are having this discussion. As for your Free agency comment. Did Clement show before we signed him he was the best defensive player in the league? No so why pay him to be? Did Jennings show he was fragile in Buffalo? Yes! So why pay him thinking he wouldn't be here?

LOL They are reaches in OUR OPINION. Their employers selected them because they thought they were the best at their respective positions. Thus they will/have paid them as such. So no need to make that value argument. Crab's employer thought he was a top player. thus, he should be paid as such.

Besides a QB, has any player received a contract substantially above their slot? Unlike the NBA draft, the NFL draft isn't by rule slotted, but it practice it has always been slotted. A WR asking to get paid up to 5 spots higher than he was drafted is new territory. Even with the QBs, I don't think anyone has made the kind of contract jump that Crabs is asking for.

Brady Quinn was projected higher than he went. His agent thought he deserved more money than where he was drafted. We know how that worked out.

Exactly. Where you are drafted is the most important factor in determining your contract. To argue otherwise is a waste of time.
Pay him. Why the f**k do the Zoners care whether he makes a bit more money that Bey?

Do we pay him? And what does it matter if he makes more money that he "deserves"?

Its the f**king sports industry and its how s**t works. People will make more money than they deserve....
  • krizay
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by niner4life21:
Pay him. Why the f**k do the Zoners care whether he makes a bit more money that Bey?

Do we pay him? And what does it matter if he makes more money that he "deserves"?

Its the f**king sports industry and its how s**t works. People will make more money than they deserve....

because apparently an extra 1.5-2 mill per season against the cap is too much.
Offer him a contract according to what he should be making in relation to where he was drafted. Then fine him for being late to camp. The longer he holds out the more time he's going to rot on the sideline during his rookie year. Then he really won't be earning his money. Once I realized he was doing pre-Draft workouts with non-tackling primadonna fashionista Deion Sanders, a holdout became a distinct possibility. We'll see how long he holds out. One thing's for sure - he's not endearing himself to his future teammates.
The Niners are going to have to pay him similar numbers to DHB. When it comes down to it, only one moron on the planet would draft DHB first, and that moron wears a jump suit every day. All the other 6.4 billion humans sucking oxygen would have selected Crabtree first.

So, the rule of paying him like he's a regular number 10 draftee is not going to apply in this circumstance. It is not right, it is certainly something the Niners don't want to get into the habit of doing, but it is what it is. The Niners will have to compensate him higher than Raji and Monroe, and close enough to Heyward-Bey so that Parker will be satisfied.

Look for numbers slightly less than DHB's contract in guaranteed money, but incentives that possibly pass the Raiders' WR financial package.