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Do we need an upgrade at NT?

Do we need an upgrade at NT?

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Well I wanted Raji more than any other player in the draft...but if Franklin can play like he played when Sing took over, than I don't see a reason for trying to find an "upgrade"

Why on earth would you want Raji if Franklin, in your opinion, played so well? I mean, I feel the same way about wanting Raji over anyone.... but that's because Franklin sucks. Sucked a little less down the stretch, but still is below average.
(not arguing with you, just asking for clarification)
  • NinerNay20
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Originally posted by bigmike55:


I wouldn't mind this guy being our starting NT

Terrence Cody
Alabama DT, 6-5 / 365

We should draft this guy next year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNCdVEfoBEo
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,440
Yes we do, but it won't happen this year unless by some miracle the Pats decided to trade Wilfork, but I don't see that happening. I think Sing is gonna let this group (Sopoaga, Franklin, Balmer, Mitchell) play out the year. At worst we could come out this year with a decent rotation at the Nose, but with no real threat in the middle. We should all hope for Ron Brace to do good this year for the Pats, and maybe just maybe they will part with Wilfork. But we could always go the cheap way through the draft and pick up someone there, gonna keep my eye on Dan Williams of Tenn this year, and there's always Boo Robinson, Al Woods, Kade Weston and Trey Bryant of Baylor (yay Sing).

But with an upgrade at NT, I think we would solidify our defense as a true 3-4. You could actually say we are one right now, but lets face it, we're gonna be looking to upgrade the NT position until we find ourselves a Wilfork, Ted Washington, Kris Jenkins, Shaun Rogers or a Casey Hampton type player. I wonder if we would've taken Ron Brace if he were available at #43??
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Yes we do, but it won't happen this year unless by some miracle the Pats decided to trade Wilfork, but I don't see that happening. I think Sing is gonna let this group (Sopoaga, Franklin, Balmer, Mitchell) play out the year. At worst we could come out this year with a decent rotation at the Nose, but with no real threat in the middle. We should all hope for Ron Brace to do good this year for the Pats, and maybe just maybe they will part with Wilfork. But we could always go the cheap way through the draft and pick up someone there, gonna keep my eye on Dan Williams of Tenn this year, and there's always Boo Robinson, Al Woods, Kade Weston and Trey Bryant of Baylor (yay Sing).

But with an upgrade at NT, I think we would solidify our defense as a true 3-4. You could actually say we are one right now, but lets face it, we're gonna be looking to upgrade the NT position until we find ourselves a Wilfork, Ted Washington, Kris Jenkins, Shaun Rogers or a Casey Hampton type player. I wonder if we would've taken Ron Brace if he were available at #43??

I imagine that we would have taken Brace at #43. I agree with your assessment as well. I think we need to give the squad a full season in the dedicated 3-4 system. We will have a better idea of where the holes are next season. I am still more concerned about our secondary than our DL. Lewis is not getting any younger, Goldson is unproven, and our CB's lack depth.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Yes we do, but it won't happen this year unless by some miracle the Pats decided to trade Wilfork, but I don't see that happening. I think Sing is gonna let this group (Sopoaga, Franklin, Balmer, Mitchell) play out the year. At worst we could come out this year with a decent rotation at the Nose, but with no real threat in the middle. We should all hope for Ron Brace to do good this year for the Pats, and maybe just maybe they will part with Wilfork. But we could always go the cheap way through the draft and pick up someone there, gonna keep my eye on Dan Williams of Tenn this year, and there's always Boo Robinson, Al Woods, Kade Weston and Trey Bryant of Baylor (yay Sing).

But with an upgrade at NT, I think we would solidify our defense as a true 3-4. You could actually say we are one right now, but lets face it, we're gonna be looking to upgrade the NT position until we find ourselves a Wilfork, Ted Washington, Kris Jenkins, Shaun Rogers or a Casey Hampton type player. I wonder if we would've taken Ron Brace if he were available at #43??

Also agree on this overall assessment. My hope comes from Sopoaga perhaps returning to NT. He was said to be our quickest DL off the snap, and we know he's strong. Hopefully, playing more 1-gap instead of 2 will benefit him and SF in the middle. This could help lessen our need at NT, which I would classify as a huge one. I'm not writing off the other NT options on the roster, but very doubtful for starting quality to emerge. Would LOVE to have traded for Wilfork, and had some interest in Brace with our 2nd rounder. Didn't read about it, if they had interest in Brace. I remember there was strong interest in CB Byrd/Butler, and had considered Unger as a possibility.

Knight hawk, I wouldn't worry much about our secondary. If we can get a better pass rush going, we have enough in the secondary to handle business. I expect SF to be looking at CB early in next year's draft, but that's a long ways away.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Yes we do, but it won't happen this year unless by some miracle the Pats decided to trade Wilfork, but I don't see that happening. I think Sing is gonna let this group (Sopoaga, Franklin, Balmer, Mitchell) play out the year. At worst we could come out this year with a decent rotation at the Nose, but with no real threat in the middle. We should all hope for Ron Brace to do good this year for the Pats, and maybe just maybe they will part with Wilfork. But we could always go the cheap way through the draft and pick up someone there, gonna keep my eye on Dan Williams of Tenn this year, and there's always Boo Robinson, Al Woods, Kade Weston and Trey Bryant of Baylor (yay Sing).

But with an upgrade at NT, I think we would solidify our defense as a true 3-4. You could actually say we are one right now, but lets face it, we're gonna be looking to upgrade the NT position until we find ourselves a Wilfork, Ted Washington, Kris Jenkins, Shaun Rogers or a Casey Hampton type player. I wonder if we would've taken Ron Brace if he were available at #43??

Also agree on this overall assessment. My hope comes from Sopoaga perhaps returning to NT. He was said to be our quickest DL off the snap, and we know he's strong. Hopefully, playing more 1-gap instead of 2 will benefit him and SF in the middle. This could help lessen our need at NT, which I would classify as a huge one. I'm not writing off the other NT options on the roster, but very doubtful for starting quality to emerge. Would LOVE to have traded for Wilfork, and had some interest in Brace with our 2nd rounder. Didn't read about it, if they had interest in Brace. I remember there was strong interest in CB Byrd/Butler, and had considered Unger as a possibility.

Knight hawk, I wouldn't worry much about our secondary. If we can get a better pass rush going, we have enough in the secondary to handle business. I expect SF to be looking at CB early in next year's draft, but that's a long ways away.

Absolutely, a good pass rush will help our secondary. I'm just a little concerned about our safeties. Give them time, and we'll see what happens.
Originally posted by KknighthawkK_9er:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Yes we do, but it won't happen this year unless by some miracle the Pats decided to trade Wilfork, but I don't see that happening. I think Sing is gonna let this group (Sopoaga, Franklin, Balmer, Mitchell) play out the year. At worst we could come out this year with a decent rotation at the Nose, but with no real threat in the middle. We should all hope for Ron Brace to do good this year for the Pats, and maybe just maybe they will part with Wilfork. But we could always go the cheap way through the draft and pick up someone there, gonna keep my eye on Dan Williams of Tenn this year, and there's always Boo Robinson, Al Woods, Kade Weston and Trey Bryant of Baylor (yay Sing).

But with an upgrade at NT, I think we would solidify our defense as a true 3-4. You could actually say we are one right now, but lets face it, we're gonna be looking to upgrade the NT position until we find ourselves a Wilfork, Ted Washington, Kris Jenkins, Shaun Rogers or a Casey Hampton type player. I wonder if we would've taken Ron Brace if he were available at #43??

Also agree on this overall assessment. My hope comes from Sopoaga perhaps returning to NT. He was said to be our quickest DL off the snap, and we know he's strong. Hopefully, playing more 1-gap instead of 2 will benefit him and SF in the middle. This could help lessen our need at NT, which I would classify as a huge one. I'm not writing off the other NT options on the roster, but very doubtful for starting quality to emerge. Would LOVE to have traded for Wilfork, and had some interest in Brace with our 2nd rounder. Didn't read about it, if they had interest in Brace. I remember there was strong interest in CB Byrd/Butler, and had considered Unger as a possibility.

Knight hawk, I wouldn't worry much about our secondary. If we can get a better pass rush going, we have enough in the secondary to handle business. I expect SF to be looking at CB early in next year's draft, but that's a long ways away.

Absolutely, a good pass rush will help our secondary. I'm just a little concerned about our safeties. Give them time, and we'll see what happens.

I guess I'm happy enough with our secondary as a group that I do overlook some areas. I really do have faith in our current depth of CBs (Clements-Brown-Bly-Spencer-Hudson) and also believe that Goldson can be a decent FS if he can stay healthy. Mike Lewis is great in the box, but struggles in deep or wide coverage. Have to wonder how long SF will keep him on. Really waiting for 3rd rounder Reggie Smith to step up soon, and am interested in the development of Taylor. Maybe it is good to have Roman on the roster for 1 more year. I think he CAN teach the youngsters how to do what he can physically NOT do, haha.
Probably. But that ship has sailed for 2009.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Well I wanted Raji more than any other player in the draft...but if Franklin can play like he played when Sing took over, than I don't see a reason for trying to find an "upgrade"

Why on earth would you want Raji if Franklin, in your opinion, played so well? I mean, I feel the same way about wanting Raji over anyone.... but that's because Franklin sucks. Sucked a little less down the stretch, but still is below average.
(not arguing with you, just asking for clarification)

im actually with him on this old. I like Franklin. I think he does a good enough job. i mean Willis and Spikes were racking up tackles. Without a good enough line that wouldnt happen. and it wasnt like Patrick's rookie season where most of the tackles were cause the D was on the field so damn much.. Nah Franklin does a good enough job. However if we had a chance at a guy like Raji whos projected to be the next dominant NT then hell yeah i want him.

In fact if Raji was available and Crabtree was too i think Raji should be the pick.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by KknighthawkK_9er:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Yes we do, but it won't happen this year unless by some miracle the Pats decided to trade Wilfork, but I don't see that happening. I think Sing is gonna let this group (Sopoaga, Franklin, Balmer, Mitchell) play out the year. At worst we could come out this year with a decent rotation at the Nose, but with no real threat in the middle. We should all hope for Ron Brace to do good this year for the Pats, and maybe just maybe they will part with Wilfork. But we could always go the cheap way through the draft and pick up someone there, gonna keep my eye on Dan Williams of Tenn this year, and there's always Boo Robinson, Al Woods, Kade Weston and Trey Bryant of Baylor (yay Sing).

But with an upgrade at NT, I think we would solidify our defense as a true 3-4. You could actually say we are one right now, but lets face it, we're gonna be looking to upgrade the NT position until we find ourselves a Wilfork, Ted Washington, Kris Jenkins, Shaun Rogers or a Casey Hampton type player. I wonder if we would've taken Ron Brace if he were available at #43??

Also agree on this overall assessment. My hope comes from Sopoaga perhaps returning to NT. He was said to be our quickest DL off the snap, and we know he's strong. Hopefully, playing more 1-gap instead of 2 will benefit him and SF in the middle. This could help lessen our need at NT, which I would classify as a huge one. I'm not writing off the other NT options on the roster, but very doubtful for starting quality to emerge. Would LOVE to have traded for Wilfork, and had some interest in Brace with our 2nd rounder. Didn't read about it, if they had interest in Brace. I remember there was strong interest in CB Byrd/Butler, and had considered Unger as a possibility.

Knight hawk, I wouldn't worry much about our secondary. If we can get a better pass rush going, we have enough in the secondary to handle business. I expect SF to be looking at CB early in next year's draft, but that's a long ways away.

Absolutely, a good pass rush will help our secondary. I'm just a little concerned about our safeties. Give them time, and we'll see what happens.

I guess I'm happy enough with our secondary as a group that I do overlook some areas. I really do have faith in our current depth of CBs (Clements-Brown-Bly-Spencer-Hudson) and also believe that Goldson can be a decent FS if he can stay healthy. Mike Lewis is great in the box, but struggles in deep or wide coverage. Have to wonder how long SF will keep him on. Really waiting for 3rd rounder Reggie Smith to step up soon, and am interested in the development of Taylor. Maybe it is good to have Roman on the roster for 1 more year. I think he CAN teach the youngsters how to do what he can physically NOT do, haha.

I also have big hopes for Reggie Smith. He would be the ideal Nickleback; he's big, strong, quick, solid against the run, had decent ball skills in college, and should be able to cover the slot receiver. I like that they moved him to safety. He will be able to play all positions in the secondary. I definitely want to see him on the field more this season.
Originally posted by ruthless49er:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Well I wanted Raji more than any other player in the draft...but if Franklin can play like he played when Sing took over, than I don't see a reason for trying to find an "upgrade"

Why on earth would you want Raji if Franklin, in your opinion, played so well? I mean, I feel the same way about wanting Raji over anyone.... but that's because Franklin sucks. Sucked a little less down the stretch, but still is below average.
(not arguing with you, just asking for clarification)

im actually with him on this old. I like Franklin. I think he does a good enough job. i mean Willis and Spikes were racking up tackles. Without a good enough line that wouldnt happen. and it wasnt like Patrick's rookie season where most of the tackles were cause the D was on the field so damn much.. Nah Franklin does a good enough job. However if we had a chance at a guy like Raji whos projected to be the next dominant NT then hell yeah i want him.

In fact if Raji was available and Crabtree was too i think Raji should be the pick.

See, this is what I don't get. Teams rarely draft a NT early, and certainly wouldn't take one at #10 if they already had one that they regarded as "doing a good enough job." I think if you decide to focus exclusively on the NT this year (if Franklin starts), you will change your mind about him. One can't first say that Franklin can't take double teams, and then say he does a good enough job. It's a contradiction in terms.

Holding the POA... being worthy of multiple OL attention, and getting push/penetration up the gut IS the job. Franklin fails to do any of that 9 times out of 10. I could give you an easy dozen sources that state that a 3-4 D must have a good NT. I think because of the excellent ILBs we have... because we played spiraling teams that had conversion issues... that fans are overrating our run defense, and also overlooking that a D needs pressure up the gut to allow better outside rush. We had some games where our D kept rushes to 3 or 4 yards a pop (thanks Willis/TKO/Lewis), but it still sucks to be looking at 3rd down and 2 to go. Some running backs down the stretch gashed us for big averages, where others we contained well at the expense of passing yards.

Okay, okay, I'm done... haha... Sorry about that rant.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Well I wanted Raji more than any other player in the draft...but if Franklin can play like he played when Sing took over, than I don't see a reason for trying to find an "upgrade"

Why on earth would you want Raji if Franklin, in your opinion, played so well? I mean, I feel the same way about wanting Raji over anyone.... but that's because Franklin sucks. Sucked a little less down the stretch, but still is below average.
(not arguing with you, just asking for clarification)

Just because Raji is younger, and I think he has more upside than Franklin, overall he would've brought more talent to the team.

And no he played fairly well after Sing took over, lots of the players named him MVP of that defense the 2nd half of the year, including Spikes from what I remmember.
Originally posted by NinerNay20:
Originally posted by bigmike55:


I wouldn't mind this guy being our starting NT

Terrence Cody
Alabama DT, 6-5 / 365

We should draft this guy next year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNCdVEfoBEo

I am totally on the "Mt. Cody" bandwagon. We absolutely need an upgrade a NT. Our D will never be complete until we have at least an above average NT, if not a dominant one.

And since it looks unlikely to addressed before next year's off season, Cody is definately a player we should be watching very closely.
You'd be willing to give up a 2nd for Shaun Rogers? Geez. Look what he did for the Browns run defense. lol
Originally posted by WheresWaldo:
You'd be willing to give up a 2nd for Shaun Rogers? Geez. Look what he did for the Browns run defense. lol


Rogers played very well, ironically. Take a look at the OTHER players surrounding him to find proper blame for their defensive failures. A good NT is greatly important to a 3-4 D, but even a good NT can not do it all.