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Shaun Hill's Passer Rating by Quarter

Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Originally posted by RedRazor:
Here is where Shaun Hill ranks (among all NFL quarterbacks) in passer rating by quarter:

1st quarter - 5th
2nd quarter - 6th
3rd quarter - 32nd
4th quarter - 4th

His 3rd quarter ranking has got me completely confused. I can understand him falling into the mid teens, maybe early 20's, but very last in the league...I don't get it?

I would take a look at the plays called in that quarter.

Based on Matrz' play calling, I am willing to wager that his performance fell off because of what he was asked to do.

We all know that Martz loved to call seven step drops and stretch the field. I would bet that if you took look at the play, you'd find that as the seven step drops and long passing plays were called with increasing frequency, Hill' effectiveness decreased.

Hill and Martz were totally incompatible. Matrz was simply unable or unwilling to scheme a defense that played to Hill's strengths.

I'm guessing it's a combination of poor halftime adjustments, good adjustments by the opposition defensively and Shaun having difficulty adjusting to both instead of "just playing his game."

But one question I do have is this:

What were the scores going into halftime when Shaun was the QB? B/c if we were down or significantly down, I can see our OC calling a more aggressive (and desperate) game plan to start the 3rd quarter.

Eventually, it appears, Hill settles down and plays within himself and does a nice job of rallying the guys together and makes them believe they can win.

It was split 4 games up and 4 down... By average I believe we went in with a 1.1 point lead or something close to that...

Thank you! That's very interesting!

So a combination of halftime adjustments and Hill's inability to adapt quickly.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Originally posted by RedRazor:
Here is where Shaun Hill ranks (among all NFL quarterbacks) in passer rating by quarter:

1st quarter - 5th
2nd quarter - 6th
3rd quarter - 32nd
4th quarter - 4th

His 3rd quarter ranking has got me completely confused. I can understand him falling into the mid teens, maybe early 20's, but very last in the league...I don't get it?

I would take a look at the plays called in that quarter.

Based on Matrz' play calling, I am willing to wager that his performance fell off because of what he was asked to do.

We all know that Martz loved to call seven step drops and stretch the field. I would bet that if you took look at the play, you'd find that as the seven step drops and long passing plays were called with increasing frequency, Hill' effectiveness decreased.

Hill and Martz were totally incompatible. Matrz was simply unable or unwilling to scheme a defense that played to Hill's strengths.

I'm guessing it's a combination of poor halftime adjustments, good adjustments by the opposition defensively and Shaun having difficulty adjusting to both instead of "just playing his game."

But one question I do have is this:

What were the scores going into halftime when Shaun was the QB? B/c if we were down or significantly down, I can see our OC calling a more aggressive (and desperate) game plan to start the 3rd quarter.

Eventually, it appears, Hill settles down and plays within himself and does a nice job of rallying the guys together and makes them believe they can win.

It was split 4 games up and 4 down... By average I believe we went in with a 1.1 point lead or something close to that...

Thank you! That's very interesting!

So a combination of halftime adjustments and Hill's inability to adapt quickly.

it wouldn't surprise me if you look at the play calling you see more longer range passes called as well. Martz had to try and sneak some Martz plays in there somewhere. Either way if Hill wins the start or should I say keeps it seems how right now its his to lose, if we continue to see this 3rd quarter slump or if he maintains consistancy through out all 4 quarters. One thing I do think happened during the end of last season, is Hill's arm started to fatigue. It seemed as though in the last couple of games he couldn't make the same plays and began to make mistakes he wasn't in the previous games. If he keeps the job, can his arm last the entire season or what ever it was that changed his play in the last few games last year.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Originally posted by RedRazor:
Here is where Shaun Hill ranks (among all NFL quarterbacks) in passer rating by quarter:

1st quarter - 5th
2nd quarter - 6th
3rd quarter - 32nd
4th quarter - 4th

His 3rd quarter ranking has got me completely confused. I can understand him falling into the mid teens, maybe early 20's, but very last in the league...I don't get it?

I would take a look at the plays called in that quarter.

Based on Matrz' play calling, I am willing to wager that his performance fell off because of what he was asked to do.

We all know that Martz loved to call seven step drops and stretch the field. I would bet that if you took look at the play, you'd find that as the seven step drops and long passing plays were called with increasing frequency, Hill' effectiveness decreased.

Hill and Martz were totally incompatible. Matrz was simply unable or unwilling to scheme a defense that played to Hill's strengths.

I'm guessing it's a combination of poor halftime adjustments, good adjustments by the opposition defensively and Shaun having difficulty adjusting to both instead of "just playing his game."

But one question I do have is this:

What were the scores going into halftime when Shaun was the QB? B/c if we were down or significantly down, I can see our OC calling a more aggressive (and desperate) game plan to start the 3rd quarter.

Eventually, it appears, Hill settles down and plays within himself and does a nice job of rallying the guys together and makes them believe they can win.

It was split 4 games up and 4 down... By average I believe we went in with a 1.1 point lead or something close to that...

Thank you! That's very interesting!

So a combination of halftime adjustments and Hill's inability to adapt quickly.

It could be Hill's inability; however, I think it may have more to do with 3rd quarter play calling by Martz. I looked up JTO's numbers and his QB rate droped from the 2nd to the 3rd quarter as well.

That and if you look at 2007, the 3rd quarter was Shaun's best with a QB rate of 123.7...
How does it compare with Kurt Warner's passer rating by quarter?
Originally posted by Apples:
How does it compare with Kurt Warner's passer rating by quarter?

Different team with different players. It's a whole different situation; therfore that stat doesen't tell us anything.
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Apples:
How does it compare with Kurt Warner's passer rating by quarter?

Different team with different players. It's a whole different situation; therfore that stat doesen't tell us anything.

Hmmm, I don't know, I heard that the two players are very similar.
Originally posted by Apples:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Apples:
How does it compare with Kurt Warner's passer rating by quarter?

Different team with different players. It's a whole different situation; therefore that stat doesn't tell us anything.

Hmmm, I don't know, I heard that the two players are very similar.

LOL... Not as similar as P-Willy and Superman though
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Originally posted by RedRazor:
Here is where Shaun Hill ranks (among all NFL quarterbacks) in passer rating by quarter:

1st quarter - 5th
2nd quarter - 6th
3rd quarter - 32nd
4th quarter - 4th

His 3rd quarter ranking has got me completely confused. I can understand him falling into the mid teens, maybe early 20's, but very last in the league...I don't get it?

I would take a look at the plays called in that quarter.

Based on Matrz' play calling, I am willing to wager that his performance fell off because of what he was asked to do.

We all know that Martz loved to call seven step drops and stretch the field. I would bet that if you took look at the play, you'd find that as the seven step drops and long passing plays were called with increasing frequency, Hill' effectiveness decreased.

Hill and Martz were totally incompatible. Matrz was simply unable or unwilling to scheme a defense that played to Hill's strengths.

I'm guessing it's a combination of poor halftime adjustments, good adjustments by the opposition defensively and Shaun having difficulty adjusting to both instead of "just playing his game."

But one question I do have is this:

What were the scores going into halftime when Shaun was the QB? B/c if we were down or significantly down, I can see our OC calling a more aggressive (and desperate) game plan to start the 3rd quarter.

Eventually, it appears, Hill settles down and plays within himself and does a nice job of rallying the guys together and makes them believe they can win.

It was split 4 games up and 4 down... By average I believe we went in with a 1.1 point lead or something close to that...

Thank you! That's very interesting!

So a combination of halftime adjustments and Hill's inability to adapt quickly.

It could be Hill's inability; however, I think it may have more to do with 3rd quarter play calling by Martz. I looked up JTO's numbers and his QB rate droped from the 2nd to the 3rd quarter as well.

That and if you look at 2007, the 3rd quarter was Shaun's best with a QB rate of 123.7...

Hmmmm. Interesting. I think you've pinpointed it.

This year, I have a feeling, is going to be totally different given that Martz's system is designed to get big yards (with big risks too) and is tailored to high QB rankings. Though Singletary curbed this more with Hill, it was still designed for the big gains, big plays, etc. I'd be very surprised if Hill (or Alex) are in the top 6 for all quarters next year. I'd expect more in the middle to lower-half of the pack but with just as much success (assuming the defense can stop the opposition and we can control the clock with ball-control).

I wonder what team from last year will mirror our offensive philosophy for this year and what that QB rankings were by quarter. The Giants? Maybe Pittsburgh? Miami? That should give us an idea of what to expect from Hill/Smith this year...
  • carl
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 3,754
Originally posted by fan49:
Originally posted by carl:
Originally posted by fan49:
Originally posted by Chief:
Hill is so underrated, it is completely bizarre.

i disagree... i think hill has not played enough to be overrated or underated. and reguardless he is not top 5 qb. any quarter, he will never fit in with mannings, bradys, mcnabbs. not startin an argument... its all my opinion

He's very smart with the ball. That's why he's got the high QB rating.

Sadly, everyone is more in love with a QB that has a gun and can't hit the target (cough Alex cough Smith cough).

no im more interested in smith because he has way more talent than hill. no one can deny that. and without nolan ruining his career i want to see what this boy can do. everyone i mean everyone on this board saw flashes of greatness by smith at some point in 06. anyone denys that or fallin in love with him in 06 your a flat out liar. maybe 2 guys on this board didnt like smith. but either way he has 190% more upside than hill period. Thats why i like smith, and that there is def. not sad.

I certainly appreciate your opinion. And I also think that Alex has a lot of potential.

In the 2006 season, while he had a lot of success, he also had a lot of his nagging traits as well. I'm not going to hold him responsible for the WR's dropping balls. But I am not going to look the other way when he was throwing the ball very inaccurately into the flat and on short passes throughout the entire 2006 season. I'm sure you can find a youtube video of the play against the Seahawks where Smith breaks free of the sack, scrambles to his left and throws a TD pass to Gore. So many people hold that up as the consummate example for how great Alex could become. And I agree, that was a great play and I think there is a lot of potential. But if you watch that play again, notice that Gore had to jump into the air to make the catch and it was a very short pass.

Look, I get it. Alex Smith has a lot of potential. But he has yet to live up to it. He's shown glimmers here and there, but so have so many players before him... Brandon Lloyd, Kevin Barlow, JJ Stokes, Kwame, etc etc.

Is Shaun the next coming of Montana? Certainly not. But he's accurate, makes smart passes and has proven that he can improvise and be successful in this league. Also consider that Hill hasn't had a full offseason of being "the man" like Alex Smith has... time and again. Alex has gotten all of the attention, the majority of the snaps, and Shaun has out played him.

I've been a very patient supporter of Alex. I'll agree that Nolan was certainly a big obstacle for Smith. And I'll even agree that could be a big reason why Alex hasn't played well over his entire career. But that same coach was on the team when Shaun Hill was there. And if you're going to blame Nolan for hindering Alex Smiths career, you should at least acknowledge that Shaun Hill was able to thrive in the same environment.

Frankly, I'm sick of hearing about Alex Smiths potential. Potential doesn't win the game. Potential doesn't pay the bills. Potential isn't enough.
Originally posted by BMore9ersfan:
Originally posted by BasharCali49:
Thanks for bringing that stat up. I remember last season they mentioned it here and there. I totally forgot about it though. It really boggles my mind, hopefully they can try to address that issue in training camp. I'm guessing it might have something to do with his conditioning.

I would think that if it had to do with his conditioning it would show up in the 4th quarter not the 3rd when he's just had rest.

I'd say it has more to do with the opposing teams making defensive adjustments. For all of his success, the fact still remains that Hill is a limited passer. The 3rd quarter is usually when you see teams make adjustments and try to take away what their opponents were doing in the first half.


I agree, you hit the nail right on the head. Then what happens when a team just says damn, we already know how to figure him out right from jumpstreet, then he´s really screwed. We can count on hill no doubt to win some games for us, but to be taken seriously as a team, we need better, even if not smith.
Quote:
I'm sure you can find a youtube video of the play against the Seahawks where Smith breaks free of the sack, scrambles to his left and throws a TD pass to Gore. So many people hold that up as the consummate example for how great Alex could become. And I agree, that was a great play and I think there is a lot of potential. But if you watch that play again, notice that Gore had to jump into the air to make the catch and it was a very short pass.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBPgPBZ-UKY&feature=related

Not a big contention here, but I'd say your memory is off here, or your bias may be getting the better of it. It was a 25 yard strike towards the pilon. There was Marcus Trufant on Gore's back (where had the pass been slightly underneath, could have been intercepted)... the pass was thrown perfectly, and there was little room for error on that one.

Watch it again... it's at the 1:22 mark on that link. Does this pass mean that Alex will succeed? Of course not... but it is what it is. I agree with you that some of Alex's short passes were not on the mark (usually a lack of touch or could be finding his target a lil late), but I think this knock on him has been exaggerated a bit.
[ Edited by oldman9er on Jul 11, 2009 at 4:05 PM ]