Originally posted by Sabrason:
SNF quote: Through parsing my post you completely ignored the paragrapgh with the central point . . . nice work.
[i][u]SNF Quote: That doesn't mean the franchise or the fan base have accepted mediocrity. It means that the expectation of success needs to be rebuilt from the bottom - up, again through consistent winning and playoff appearances. This team is young and building, and tangible improvement towards creating a new Superbowl or bust mentality should not be dismissed (or abandoned) simply because it wasn't enough of an improvement in the eyes of some or because the coach is a former Bear . . . [/i][/u]
I apologize, please forgive me for ignoring your "central point" which I will now address. A fan's expectation of success does not need to be rebuilt unless it was damaged/diminished in the first place -- which it clearly has with you and many others here. Being "ok with 8-8" simply b/c it would be the best record since 2002 is an example of that.
However, other fans such as myself, Singfan, etc have personally expected the same high standards since the glory days despite the Yorks and team falling well short of that for the last 8-10 years. Our expectations WERE high, ARE high and therefore don't need any rebuilding. The expectation of fans is the one thing that can and should remain consistently high regardless of the ups and downs of the team.
Of course, the ownership's expectations of success are certainly in need of rebuilding since they have accepted mediocrity for far too long. I'm not sure it even requires a long drawn-out process of "rebuilding" --- you just instantly expect more and do whatever it takes to see those expectations realized. Unfortunately, I don't think the Yorks are capable of that as I see little in the way of them modeling the team after the successful Patriots franchise that was once talked about.
SNF quote: what part of any of my posts suggests anyone should be happy with 8-8 every year?
No part of your post suggested you're HAPPY with it, but you did say you were "ok" with it which, after the last decade of failure, no fan should be, IMO. For team expectations to increase i think it first needs to start with the ENTIRE fan base expecting more rather than being "ok" with 8-8 mediocrity simply b/c it would be better than any record they had since 2002. That is no reason at all. As Singfan mentioned, I can sense you changing your tune a little which his good.
Back to my previous question I notice you didn't answer: you want to see "tangible improvement" from MS even if it's only by one game from 7-9 to 8-8. Can't get any less tangible than that but ok. You'd be "ok" with that miniscule improvement enough to support MS and consider his job 'more than safe" with at least that record.
However, the more pronounced "tangible improvement" that you deem to be so important and that Martz orchestrated on offense last year went largely unrecognized and ignored in favor of focusing on isolated minutia that was cited as justification for what was truly an absurd and inappropriate firing. Do you think that was the correct thing to do. I know respected analysts like Jimmy Johnson didn't think so as he did not think Martz deserved to be canned.
I'm left wondering why Martz's faar more pronounced "tangible improvements" were ignored while MS's far less pronounced improvements were embraced and celebrated and will, in all liklihood, continue to be? It doesn't make any sense just as PA's siding with an unproven coaching nobody like MS over a former 49er coach and SB winner like Shanny and Holmgren doesn't. Since when do 49er fans turn on former coaches from the good years???
Between turning on those former 49er coaches and being ok with mediocrity, the state of the fan base (at least in here) has me a bit concerned.
“The expectation of fans is the one thing that can and should remain consistently high regardless of the ups and downs of the team”
I would agree with that if the downs were stitched together with contending campaigns. But after six straight losing seasons, applying those expectations to the current team would be similar to applying them to the 1979 or 1980 teams before we expected nothing less than a Division Title and a Superbowl run. I simply can't expect that of this years team.
As far as six straight losing seasons being “no reason at all” to make an 8-8 record OK; Really? No reason at all? Would it not be a clear improvement upon which future growth could be built? I’ll answer that . . . Of course. Which is why I believe Singletary should feel “more than” secure for 2010 if we reach 8-8 in 2009 . . . beyond 2010 he shouldn’t feel comfortable unless we’re in the Playoffs. If you want to call that changing tunes be my guest.
Back to Martz? . . . OK.
Obviously his firing was a risky proposition for Singletary. If the 2009 offense under-performs compared to 2008, the question of Martz’ dismissal will be raised again and again. Under Martz in 2008 the offense averaged 311 yards per game (211 Pass/100 Run) which was obviously more than just a tangible improvement over the dismal 237 Yards per Game (145/92) under Hostler in 2007.
The improvement in 2008 under Martz was more modest compared to 2006 under Turner when we averaged 304 Yards per Game (168/136). The obvious difference is the Pass/Run ratio (68/32) vs. (55/45) which is clearly important to Singletary.
Then why was Martz canned? Well I think in addition to Singletary’s stated goal of building an offense around a strong ground game (not what Mad Mike is known for), it’s my theory that given the way Martz fixed the “QB competition” in 2008 he probably poisoned the well as far as long-term coaching interaction with Hill and Smith and made Singletary’s decision to go in another direction fairly easy and almost necessary.
Speaking of numbers, if we return to something closer to Norv Turner's offense, in a perfect world under Jimmy Raye in 2009 I’d like to see improvement in the neighborhood of 340-350 yards per game (210/140).
[ Edited by SonocoNinerFan on Jul 16, 2009 at 7:26 AM ]