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ESPN's Clayton thinks SF will be 3rd in NFC West
May 18, 2009 at 11:00 PM
- KasparHauser
- Info N/A
If you look at the stats for the past 4 years, you will see that neither the Seahawks or the Cards were very good. The Seahawks, although they won the division, were a middle of pack team on O and D. I think in 2004/5 they were 5th best in O, but that is it. The rest is a history of mediocrity. The Cards are even worse. So I find it funny when Clayton, or whomever, doesn't actually look at the stats, and just remembers Seattle winning the NFC west for a few years, and claims they will return to greatness. Sure. They will return to being medium, as will the Cards, the question is will the 49ers be medium, subpar, or actually good? I say good.
May 18, 2009 at 11:26 PM
- merm49
- Veteran
- Posts: 387
Funny that neither Cript Keeper nor the 'Zone mentions our much improved defense (we didn't add a lot of guys, but our scheme drastically improved under Sing and we finished 13th after a half-season of NoWin's big nickle). Add a strong D and a less turnover-prone O and we should be OK--maybe not as exciting, but solid.
I love the fatalism in mid-May.
I love the fatalism in mid-May.
May 18, 2009 at 11:29 PM
- KezarLivin
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,902
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
I'd love to get paid a grip to spew out unsubstantiated BS predictions. What a job.
May 19, 2009 at 12:47 AM
- plinius9mm
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,395
Originally posted by db9er:
Predictions are predictions....Its what we do in the season that matters. Let everyone down play us. Then when the season comes along, we can prove them wrong.
Which analyst predicted the Cards to go to the Superbowl: 0. Only cardinal fans believed they would go to the superbowl.
May 19, 2009 at 1:20 AM
- CorvaNinerFan
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,400
Hold on a minute...don't assume Raye's an OC downgrade. I like Martz...but, let's face it, there was no way he was staying in SF. He was a last-ditch effort by Nolan to resurrect the offense. He did...somewhat. But, we saw the results, too...JTO getting sacked and turning the ball over. Raye's offense should resemble Turner's...they both believe in pounding the ball and doing play-action passes. He'll use his TE's...Martz didn't. We have three guys who can catch the ball at that position. We won't see any more 7-step drops...then wait for receivers to uncover, all the while our QB's getting the crap knocked out of him. What we will see is 3 & 5 step drops...Hill getting the ball out quickly, to receivers in positions they can do something with it (YAC). For all of Martz' talents, he's still unemployed...Raye is with his 6th team. He must have something to offer...or he wouldn't be working in the NFL any more.
As for Clayton's prediction...he could be right...but, the way I see it, the NFC West is wide-open. We have as good a chance to win as either Seattle or 'Zona do. We have to play smart football and not give games away like we did last year. Nobody will pick us 'til we win...so that's Singletary's challenge...get our guys to play like winners.
As for Clayton's prediction...he could be right...but, the way I see it, the NFC West is wide-open. We have as good a chance to win as either Seattle or 'Zona do. We have to play smart football and not give games away like we did last year. Nobody will pick us 'til we win...so that's Singletary's challenge...get our guys to play like winners.
May 19, 2009 at 7:55 AM
- Shorteous
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,296
Originally posted by danimal:Originally posted by Memphis9er:
What a buncha bulls**t,the shehawks are as bad as than they were last year,we have improved(fired Nolan and Martz the moron).
So basically you are saying because we got rid of Nolan and Martz....we MUST be a better team?
So how did that work out when we rid ourselves of Hostler? Erickson? Mooch?
Just because Nolan is gone doesn't mean we got any better. You can hope Sing is a superior HC to Nolan, but it is baseless. And again, how is it any different than Erickson to Nolan.....horrible head coach replaced by an unknown. It is not an answer, really it is just another question. 90% of this board was rolling with Nolan....just like 90% of this board will be cursing Sing if he has 3 s**tty years. Then what...will you be making posts how we MUST be better now because we are finally rid of Sing?
So true because we all know that the head coach has little impact on how the team plays. Did you really just make that point... foolish.
We all know that the head coaching change had nothing to do with the resurrection of teams like Miami, Atlanta, New Orleans, Carolina, Baltimore, and many others over the last few years.
Granted Sing is an unknown commodity and the 9ers could very well have another loosing season. Going from a known loosing commodity to an unknown promising commodity is defiantly an upgrade.
[ Edited by Shorteous on May 19, 2009 at 8:06 AM ]
May 19, 2009 at 8:04 AM
- lamontb
- Veteran
- Posts: 30,011
Once again it comes back to Qb and the Niners have the worst Qb in the division. Clayton's opinion isn't crazy or anything just his opinion. If you look at Seattle and don't' think they had a monster off season and will be much better b/c of the retrun of a healthy Hassleback then you are tripping. Funny how folks say Marvel smith is a major improvement though he's coming off injury. But Hassleback and the Seattle WR's will struggle b/c they are coming off injury. Can't have it both ways. Niners could finish 3rd or they could win the division imo it's wide open.
May 19, 2009 at 8:19 AM
- D_Niner
- Veteran
- Posts: 8,498
1, 2, and 3 place in the NFC West are going to be real close. Either us, the Tards, or SeaChickens could fall into any of these slots.
Last year (2008) we beat the Chickens when Hastlebeck played but we lost to them when he was out. We would have split with the Tards (win one lose one) if Martz didn't phuck up the end of that game.
Our D should be better with us only having 1 DC now (Nolan's interference is gone) And running to set up the pass should open lanes for Crabs, VD, and Capt. Morgan to make some big plays.
So 3rd is a possibility; but, so is 1st...
Last year (2008) we beat the Chickens when Hastlebeck played but we lost to them when he was out. We would have split with the Tards (win one lose one) if Martz didn't phuck up the end of that game.
Our D should be better with us only having 1 DC now (Nolan's interference is gone) And running to set up the pass should open lanes for Crabs, VD, and Capt. Morgan to make some big plays.
So 3rd is a possibility; but, so is 1st...
May 19, 2009 at 8:19 AM
- RedWaltz24
- Veteran
- Posts: 4,120
I see Clayton's opinion as being a valid one, especially since the 9ers haven't shown that they can win the division and there are a lot of uncertainties with a turnover in coaches and playbooks. I certainly respect the opinion of someone who has been covering the NFL for over 30 years professionally.
Hopefully the 9ers will gel under Singletary's guidance and step-up, but you never know till they strap on the pads.
Hopefully the 9ers will gel under Singletary's guidance and step-up, but you never know till they strap on the pads.
May 19, 2009 at 8:27 AM
- Shorteous
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,296
Originally posted by lamontb:
Once again it comes back to Qb and the Niners have the worst Qb in the division. Clayton's opinion isn't crazy or anything just his opinion. If you look at Seattle and don't' think they had a monster off season and will be much better b/c of the retrun of a healthy Hassleback then you are tripping. Funny how folks say Marvel smith is a major improvement though he's coming off injury. But Hassleback and the Seattle WR's will struggle b/c they are coming off injury. Can't have it both ways. Niners could finish 3rd or they could win the division imo it's wide open.
They defiantly made some good upgrades, but the coach is Mora Jr and Greg Knapp and once again that makes all the difference in the world. When it comes down to QB play, it is true that we probably have the worse rated QB's in the division but lets remember what wins championships....DEFENSE. Great example would be the Saints and Bronco's last season. I'm just saying with some average QB play we could be a playoff contender if the rest of the team steps up and our coaches execute the type of game plans they did late last year.
May 19, 2009 at 8:30 AM
- Norcal9erfan
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,566
Let them talk... All the more reason to throw it in their face when we win the West! We are going to HIT THEM IN THE MOUTH NEXT!!!!!!
May 19, 2009 at 8:37 AM
- RamItOn
- Veteran
- Posts: 31
Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:Originally posted by Memphis9er:
What a buncha bulls**t,the shehawks are as bad as than they were last year,we have improved(fired Nolan and Martz the moron).
we did nothin really to improve this offseason,and a martz system is better for crabtree because he ran the spread offense with the red raiders so our run first offense won't really benefit our first round pick. marvel smith for jonas jennings is about gettin the same player really. brandon jones ? give me a break. seahawks had both starting WRs out last year and Hasslebeck and still kicked our ass on our home turf. they gettin TJ housh, Deon branch , Hasslebeck and now Curry , they would have easily won the NFC west last year if they stayed healthy and i dont see us having a better record than zona. im not being a downer i really hope we win the superbowl every year but being realistic here. i see it ending like this
1. Seahawks 10-6
2. Arizona 9-7
3. 49ers 8-8
4. Rams 4-12
I agree with Primetime, except that he gives the Rams too much credit with four wins.
[ Edited by RamItOn on May 19, 2009 at 8:38 AM ]
May 19, 2009 at 8:38 AM
- Joecool
- Veteran
- Posts: 70,984
I wouldn't count SEA out to win the division. They ran into a lot of bad luck last year. However, I think the coaching down grade will hurt them and Hasselbeck.
May 19, 2009 at 8:43 AM
- dj43
- Moderator
- Posts: 35,654
The 49ers moved to solve some problems from last year, but so did everyone else in the division.
Much of this board is under-rating the Cardinals. They have a lot of young talent on that team, along with the best WR corp in the league. The talk about Boldin and Dansby is just that. Whisenhunt is another Singletary - he doesn't put up with prima donnas. AZ was one drive from winning the Super Bowl, and all that history about SB losers is just history. It has no cause/effect relationship. AZ is still the best in the division by a substantial margin.
Seattle is the wild card. Hasselbeck is the key. If he's healthy, they could challenge AZ, but that would be a reach.
The 49ers then wind up fighting for an 8-8 season, and that will not get them a wild card birth. I like Hill but with the game on the line, Warner and Hasselbeck are better.
Sorry, that's the way I see it.
Much of this board is under-rating the Cardinals. They have a lot of young talent on that team, along with the best WR corp in the league. The talk about Boldin and Dansby is just that. Whisenhunt is another Singletary - he doesn't put up with prima donnas. AZ was one drive from winning the Super Bowl, and all that history about SB losers is just history. It has no cause/effect relationship. AZ is still the best in the division by a substantial margin.
Seattle is the wild card. Hasselbeck is the key. If he's healthy, they could challenge AZ, but that would be a reach.
The 49ers then wind up fighting for an 8-8 season, and that will not get them a wild card birth. I like Hill but with the game on the line, Warner and Hasselbeck are better.
Sorry, that's the way I see it.
May 19, 2009 at 8:44 AM
- elguapo
- Veteran
- Posts: 25,083
Originally posted by danimal:Originally posted by elguapo:
Let' s see how we improved....
1. Hill as a full time starter not just half the season...right there that's a few games (even if it's smith, the fact that o'sullivan is not here we will turn it over less)
2. More running the ball with gore and co not to mention we have a FB now who can block. less blindside hits may help too by running the ball more and controlling the clock more. Remember how our time of possession was really good towards the end of the year.
3. Marvel Smith - even if healthy only half the year is better than sims, who cost us many sacks and the mia game at the end. The fact that synder is backup over sims even if marvel gets injured is a good thing too. Better O line play for the run and pass will help our offense.
4. Vernon not just blocking - Martz never had a great TE with talent who is open most of the time, he just used wr's. Well Davis will get the ball more than 30 times this year and that will help the offense.
5. On D, well our D was great especially the end of last year, best D in the division. best secondary, best lb's now that petersen is gone, and our dl is pretty dam good with smith.
Crabtree morgan and bruce will help out the offense as well.
I don't see how the niners won't finish ahead of the seahawks and at least the same record as the cards. People seem to forget we only lost by 10 points the first game after 5 turnovers and by 1 yard and a few horrible calls the second game to the cards.
1. Since Garcia, QB1 has been played by a 3rd tier QB, Hill is just a continuation of that. This is not an improvement. Rattay, Dorsey, Smith, Dilfer, JTO, Shaun Hill and others...NONE wereare an improvement over the other.....its just 1 mediocre QB taking over for another
2. Just saying...hey guys...lets be a running team....doesn't actually make you a running team. Just executing snaps to handoff to a runner, doesn't make you a smashmouth team...sometimes it just makes you a 3 and out team
3. I think our O-line is slightly better than 08'...but I don't think they are much better than a #15 ranked o-line...not sure where I would rank em in the division
4. Don't pretend that Martz reduced Vernon to be a blocker...that has been how he has been used for a few years now by many different coaches. We have to consider that we just might a blocking TE combine freak that we drafted #6. Vernon is on thin ice from being a bust....Martz gone doesn't change that...only Vernon can
5. Maybe we are tuning into different games...but the Niners Defense I see is GOOD...not Great. Maybe they could be great, but the O and their 3 and out Smash mouth rock em sock em new attitude on O.....will put them in very bad positions
and will zoners PLEASE stop using the Arizona game as some kind of indicator. Anybody who knows the NFL should know division play doesn't tell you anything about the teams and how they rank up. Case and point...during the New England dynasty, the Fins were known to upset them almost every year...sometimes in New England as well. Does that mean Miami was close to being a Dynasty team? It is very common for a championship team to go 3-3 in their division...that does not tell you anything about the other teams in their division...it just tells you that division rivals usually play each other close...no matter what end of the spectrum the teams happen to exist in outside of their own series.
MAYBE you need to see the point of my post. I don't think you really tuned into the same football games that the rest of the football world was watching just like you were not tuned into my post. You tried comparing:
1. other qb's to Hill. Mistake because they had other casts, and attributes.
2. i was saying running more is IN FACT a way not to throw int's and get sacked which we did allow so much last year.....logic 101. I was not saying anything regarding 3 and outs.
3. OL well we lost our starter at RT and our Backup and sims destroyed quite a few plays and helped lose some games for us. Our OL improves regardless unless synder and smith gets injured. ....i said nothing about our status compared to the rest of the league. Just that it was better than last year.
4. Vernon blocked more last year than ever and Martz does not use TE's....fact....101 again.
5. Everybody knows our D is very good and often times more than very good.
And you see that divisions do have more experience playing eachother and do know eachother....common sense. My point was we got better in those 5 points were my justifications. US "ZONERS" can use the arizona game as an indicator or the above reasons why we will win the division and it does make alot of sense. Sorry for a little dose of reality