Isaac Sopoaga

Have to agree with you pasodoc9er. J Smith seemed to be in every play last year but Soap was rarely a threat. Many are saying that wasn't his role but I fail to see what role he was fulfililng. If he was freeing up the LBs why couldn't they get to the QB?

If it was a matter of scheme and the line is terrific we will all be happy campers!

I'd like to see someone come in and tutor Sopoaga on how to improve his technique.We've seen the need for this his whole career and it has'nt been addressed.Maybe now that he has the time,maybe Bryant Young or anyone because brute strength is not going to do it.With the combination of his power and better technique,he could be one of the best in the game.....................GO NINERS.

tsty, i would be foursquare in favor of doing exactly that. On his own, or with the current coaching staff, for my money, "soap doesn't get it". Furthermore, had bigMike spent the time with soap he spent with p-52, i think soap would be a different breed of cat. Without looking it up, i think i recall he started playing football late in the game. If it is just a matter of a Bryant YOung being brot in to tutor him, or to have him "get it", man i would be all in favor of that. BY couldn't possibly be anything but a positive influence on soap, and if soap has one really horrible habit, it is standing around at end of play instead of being at the bottom of the pile. No joke, true.

BY could be of enormous help to soap, and if after that, there was no change, then i would say okay, hit the jettison button. But tutoring is sure a cheap way to see if a big guy like that could be special. It is hard to put into words, but my impression of soap is that he isn't sure of what he is supposed to do. Tutoring, esp. by BY would have to help him. If not , then he just isn't cut out for the sport at this level. Look at guys like Ngata...he "gets it". It would be cooler than liquid nitrogen if soap's big problem is lack of understanding the game, and BY laid it out for him. It's possible, and something i thot early in his career here...he didn't seem to have the capacity to understand exactly what was going on and what and where his responsibility was. Sure would be an easy way to end up with a great player. It will interesting if bigMike takes action on something like this. No bets on it tho.

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

Originally posted by wailers15:

Originally posted by King49er:

Originally posted by B650:
That's good, but he has said before he prefers end, so I'm mixed right now. We'll see. Personally, I think he's better at DT.

I don't care what position he plays on the D Line,as long as he's effective ALL YEAR

Him being effective is like Obama's stimulas plan working!!

Yeah, let's go back to George Bush. Maybe start another war. That's good for business.

Shrub's gone. Now its the Acorn Squirrel . . . weariness of the state of our political leaders sends me here for relief--such as it is.

Back to Sopoaga. The D in general, and Abrayo specifically, started playing much better since Sing. Until we get a dominant NT, it's Ice and Franklin. NT's don't grow on trees.

Here's root'in for Sing to motivate Ice to step up and command double attention so we can start disrupting those sustained drives by opposing teams!

I didn't read the full 7 pages of this thread, so this may already have been addressed?

There is a lot of criticism that Soap isn't a great 2-gapper, but at the end of the season, Franklin was playing more of a 1 gap assignment. Moving Soap inside would actually make life easier for him wouldn't it?

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
okay, kolo, you see a bright light when you see soap, and i see a guy who is strong, athletic, but somehow just doesn't seem to grasp the "it" in being a NT or DE, or whatever his status will be this yr. 5yrs? And this is what we got? Yes, i admit to being spoiled, watching all the glory yrs games and getting to go to joe robbie against cincy, and against marino at stanford. But even without that, if a guy is starting, i just flat out expect more out of him than we get from soap(look, as i said, he has lots of company, so this isn't a witch hunt). You review tapes and see a guy you obviously like. i review them and see a guy who is going thru the motions, but in the end, not getting it done.

First off this is Sopoaga's first full year starting, and as I've showed on paper Sopoaga is comparable to a Igor Olshansky, Ty Warren, Luis Castillo, Chris Canty. Amazing how you people judge a player when hes practically been in rotation before last year.

You keep bringing up the "IT" factor and say you watch tape on him. Well "IT" factors don't tell the whole story of a player good or bad.

Wanna know the criticism I have of Sopoaga (off the top of my head), here goes:

1. Gets stood up by O-lineman, forgets to use proper leverage whether its the run or the pass.

2. Doesn't use his hands well and gets locked up in blocks at times.

3. Wears down if in the game too long.

If you have the Jets game, New England game and Washington game, you would see where hes a top of his game, combined power with technique, good example of his potential.

Quote:
Rather than dispute each and every point i made that you challenged, i will leave it here. We simply see the same tape and end up "seeing" different things. The only thing i will counter with is, if soap is as good as you say, how come we STILL have no passrush? Maybe you see him out there as the only guy playing at a superior level, but if so, one of the two of us needs glasses. IF he were playing so superbly, i would expect our passrush and PassD to be just splendid, which it obviously isn't. I don't have a "mad on" for soap---he seems like a nice young man. But anchoring our line at DE or NT, or DL(where i think he really belongs), no way. Our passrush speaks for itself...just not very loudly. Okay, it's a whisper.

I've never once said or implied that Sopoaga is playing at a superior level. My whole point of all these Sopoaga debates or arguments are that hes done a solid job of starting his first FULL year, and noted that he more than earned his first year of his new contract.

But as for our pass-rush, I could've sworn Parys Haralson emerged as ONE of our pass-rushers. Simply put, We really don't have anyone at the WILL or a straight up pass-rusher for that matter that can keep a consistent pass rush. Look around the league at all the teams running a 3-4, they for one have a better LB unit and have never switched back and fourth from a Big Sub or the 4-2-5, when in that formation has ABSOLUTELY ZERO pass-rush in.

Quote:

As i said, this wasn't only about soap. It is more about the guys who make up the futility we have to watch game after game, yr in and yr out. Cripes we have one of the best LBs to come along in a decade, and even with p-52 we can't stop the pass, because we have no passD, and that is due to NO passrush. If soap isn't part of that problem, then you are right...i am all wet. But i submit it has been yrs since a passrush, a real one, and soap, like it or not, is a part of that.

I think you seem to fail on what a 3-4 DL's main priority is. You lead me to believe that the reason's why we lack in stopping the pass is due to our front 3?? So Mark Roman has nothing to add, Nate Clements gambling on a pass has nothing to add, Mike Nolan's Big Nickel has nothing to add, no dominate pass-rusher has nothing to add, our NT's failing to collapse the pocket so the QB won't step up and avoid pass-rushers from the left or right side have nothing to add.

Wanna lay blame on our front 3 D-lineman, here goes.....DAMN them for ranking 13th against the run. How dare they fail to close off running lanes for the opposing RB's, we should be ranked in the top 5 against the run....damn them. I hate when 3 D-lineman can't get to the QB against 5 O-lineman.....you guys gotta be kidding me right??

Quote:

Again, i reiterate: nobody would love to see soap have an all pro yr more than I. Realistically, that seems to be a forlorn hope. So it is either coaching, which has been so far below par it is embarrassing, or it is in talent evaluation and selection, which has given us 9 starters on D, which all are excellent backups. Starters...and i include soap in this group....nah.

That has GOT to be one of thee most BS lines I've ever seen in your rants. Tell me why type all that just to say that at the end, makes no sense at all, wanna know why, cause you'll deny every reason why he made it there.

But yes, a big part of it WAS coaching, notice the difference from Nolan to Singletary.

Another clue....first half = Big Sub, second half = One-gapping in a 3-4.

Okay, K, i will run up the white flag on this, as i have to attend to very important matters of state...unh, pruning, trapping gophers, burning brush, and fixing the chain saw. Rereading all this post, it seems like you are defending soap(as well as others), trying mightily to put a good face on things(this franchise). i am just broken-hearted at where we aren't, post D&E, and then the amazing noln---yet still i don't see our way out of this ...well, for lack of a better word, quagmire.

Maybe i'm impatient and want to see guys who have been here for 4-5 yrs actually produce at a high level. Maybe i'm frustrated that it seems we still have no discernable plan. I know for sure i am sick we didn't try and secure pioli. As for soap and our other "starters", (jsmith and p-52 excluded), maybe it is or has been just one botched coaching job after another. Maybe , maybe, maybe. i do NOT have the answers, and maybe you and i are just talking past one another. i don't usually get into long drawn out conversations like this, but i assume we both want the same thing...and that is a team that is entertaining, makes us want to go to or watch or listen to the games, and at the end of the yr, look back and say, "Hey, we made progress this yr". For the last 6 yrs, that has been missing for me.

Whether we are discussing soap, or manusky, or the jedi & scot, or whoever... we are not getting to where we need to be. I am asking questions, and you are defending what has been done...in this case by soap. Obviously i don't see what you see, but i would hope at the end of the day, we both want the same thing: an improved team, who is "in" most games, provides excitement and fun, and has a bright future. That is where i would like to be, at the least. I would hope that we could at least agree on that.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Okay, K, i will run up the white flag on this, as i have to attend to very important matters of state...unh, pruning, trapping gophers, burning brush, and fixing the chain saw. Rereading all this post, it seems like you are defending soap(as well as others), trying mightily to put a good face on things(this franchise). i am just broken-hearted at where we aren't, post D&E, and then the amazing noln---yet still i don't see our way out of this ...well, for lack of a better word, quagmire.

Maybe i'm impatient and want to see guys who have been here for 4-5 yrs actually produce at a high level. Maybe i'm frustrated that it seems we still have no discernable plan. I know for sure i am sick we didn't try and secure pioli. As for soap and our other "starters", (jsmith and p-52 excluded), maybe it is or has been just one botched coaching job after another. Maybe , maybe, maybe. i do NOT have the answers, and maybe you and i are just talking past one another. i don't usually get into long drawn out conversations like this, but i assume we both want the same thing...and that is a team that is entertaining, makes us want to go to or watch or listen to the games, and at the end of the yr, look back and say, "Hey, we made progress this yr". For the last 6 yrs, that has been missing for me.

Whether we are discussing soap, or manusky, or the jedi & scot, or whoever... we are not getting to where we need to be. I am asking questions, and you are defending what has been done...in this case by soap. Obviously i don't see what you see, but i would hope at the end of the day, we both want the same thing: an improved team, who is "in" most games, provides excitement and fun, and has a bright future. That is where i would like to be, at the least. I would hope that we could at least agree on that.

i agree with you on this homie but are you really going to trap gophers? i've never seen a gopher before

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Okay, K, i will run up the white flag on this, as i have to attend to very important matters of state...unh, pruning, trapping gophers, burning brush, and fixing the chain saw. Rereading all this post, it seems like you are defending soap(as well as others), trying mightily to put a good face on things(this franchise). i am just broken-hearted at where we aren't, post D&E, and then the amazing noln---yet still i don't see our way out of this ...well, for lack of a better word, quagmire.

Maybe i'm impatient and want to see guys who have been here for 4-5 yrs actually produce at a high level. Maybe i'm frustrated that it seems we still have no discernable plan. I know for sure i am sick we didn't try and secure pioli. As for soap and our other "starters", (jsmith and p-52 excluded), maybe it is or has been just one botched coaching job after another. Maybe , maybe, maybe. i do NOT have the answers, and maybe you and i are just talking past one another. i don't usually get into long drawn out conversations like this, but i assume we both want the same thing...and that is a team that is entertaining, makes us want to go to or watch or listen to the games, and at the end of the yr, look back and say, "Hey, we made progress this yr". For the last 6 yrs, that has been missing for me.

Whether we are discussing soap, or manusky, or the jedi & scot, or whoever... we are not getting to where we need to be. I am asking questions, and you are defending what has been done...in this case by soap. Obviously i don't see what you see, but i would hope at the end of the day, we both want the same thing: an improved team, who is "in" most games, provides excitement and fun, and has a bright future. That is where i would like to be, at the least. I would hope that we could at least agree on that.

You and I want what everyone wants, and that's to be a top flight team again. But seriously, singling out a player when he hardly even is the cause of our teams failures is ridiculous. I could see if he has been costing us the game, by the opposing team is consistently owning the right side. All I'm trying to add in this thread is that Sopoaga is another piece to our puzzle.

Have a nice day.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
okay, kolo, you see a bright light when you see soap, and i see a guy who is strong, athletic, but somehow just doesn't seem to grasp the "it" in being a NT or DE, or whatever his status will be this yr. 5yrs? And this is what we got? Yes, i admit to being spoiled, watching all the glory yrs games and getting to go to joe robbie against cincy, and against marino at stanford. But even without that, if a guy is starting, i just flat out expect more out of him than we get from soap(look, as i said, he has lots of company, so this isn't a witch hunt). You review tapes and see a guy you obviously like. i review them and see a guy who is going thru the motions, but in the end, not getting it done.

First off this is Sopoaga's first full year starting, and as I've showed on paper Sopoaga is comparable to a Igor Olshansky, Ty Warren, Luis Castillo, Chris Canty. Amazing how you people judge a player when hes practically been in rotation before last year.

You keep bringing up the "IT" factor and say you watch tape on him. Well "IT" factors don't tell the whole story of a player good or bad.

Wanna know the criticism I have of Sopoaga (off the top of my head), here goes:

1. Gets stood up by O-lineman, forgets to use proper leverage whether its the run or the pass.

2. Doesn't use his hands well and gets locked up in blocks at times.

3. Wears down if in the game too long.

If you have the Jets game, New England game and Washington game, you would see where hes a top of his game, combined power with technique, good example of his potential.

Quote:
Rather than dispute each and every point i made that you challenged, i will leave it here. We simply see the same tape and end up "seeing" different things. The only thing i will counter with is, if soap is as good as you say, how come we STILL have no passrush? Maybe you see him out there as the only guy playing at a superior level, but if so, one of the two of us needs glasses. IF he were playing so superbly, i would expect our passrush and PassD to be just splendid, which it obviously isn't. I don't have a "mad on" for soap---he seems like a nice young man. But anchoring our line at DE or NT, or DL(where i think he really belongs), no way. Our passrush speaks for itself...just not very loudly. Okay, it's a whisper.

I've never once said or implied that Sopoaga is playing at a superior level. My whole point of all these Sopoaga debates or arguments are that hes done a solid job of starting his first FULL year, and noted that he more than earned his first year of his new contract.

But as for our pass-rush, I could've sworn Parys Haralson emerged as ONE of our pass-rushers. Simply put, We really don't have anyone at the WILL or a straight up pass-rusher for that matter that can keep a consistent pass rush. Look around the league at all the teams running a 3-4, they for one have a better LB unit and have never switched back and fourth from a Big Sub or the 4-2-5, when in that formation has ABSOLUTELY ZERO pass-rush in.

Quote:

As i said, this wasn't only about soap. It is more about the guys who make up the futility we have to watch game after game, yr in and yr out. Cripes we have one of the best LBs to come along in a decade, and even with p-52 we can't stop the pass, because we have no passD, and that is due to NO passrush. If soap isn't part of that problem, then you are right...i am all wet. But i submit it has been yrs since a passrush, a real one, and soap, like it or not, is a part of that.

I think you seem to fail on what a 3-4 DL's main priority is. You lead me to believe that the reason's why we lack in stopping the pass is due to our front 3?? So Mark Roman has nothing to add, Nate Clements gambling on a pass has nothing to add, Mike Nolan's Big Nickel has nothing to add, no dominate pass-rusher has nothing to add, our NT's failing to collapse the pocket so the QB won't step up and avoid pass-rushers from the left or right side have nothing to add.

Wanna lay blame on our front 3 D-lineman, here goes.....DAMN them for ranking 13th against the run. How dare they fail to close off running lanes for the opposing RB's, we should be ranked in the top 5 against the run....damn them. I hate when 3 D-lineman can't get to the QB against 5 O-lineman.....you guys gotta be kidding me right??

Quote:

Again, i reiterate: nobody would love to see soap have an all pro yr more than I. Realistically, that seems to be a forlorn hope. So it is either coaching, which has been so far below par it is embarrassing, or it is in talent evaluation and selection, which has given us 9 starters on D, which all are excellent backups. Starters...and i include soap in this group....nah.

That has GOT to be one of thee most BS lines I've ever seen in your rants. Tell me why type all that just to say that at the end, makes no sense at all, wanna know why, cause you'll deny every reason why he made it there.

But yes, a big part of it WAS coaching, notice the difference from Nolan to Singletary.

Another clue....first half = Big Sub, second half = One-gapping in a 3-4.

Soap was one of the reasons that our run D was so good. Alot of people tend to trash our D-line (both Soap and Franklin), but they did pretty good against the run.
08 Run D

let's see what al harris can do for him

Soap had 41 tackles despite being double teamed more than anyone else on the DL and it's no accident that Haralson got so many sacks coming in behind him.

I felt that Soap did a better job then Franklin prior to the switch to DE. However Nolan was the guy who brought Franklin in so they gave him the job.

Originally posted by ezrider:
Soap had 41 tackles despite being double teamed more than anyone else on the DL and it's no accident that Haralson got so many sacks coming in behind him.

Never thought about that. I had always assumed that Haralson played behind Smith before I read that article Matt posted.
I think most people want players that fill the stat sheet. And since Soap doesn't, then the thinking is he must suck. Now, I'm not saying this guy is an all-star, far from it. IMO, the guy is getting by on raw strength and uses little technique. If he can learn some rip and swim moves, etc, he could be much better.
Still, Soap doesn't deserve the hate he has recieved on this board.

Yeah, K, really trapping gophers. Not a bad day, 17 in all, and that doesn't count the ones the barn owls get(which is a bunch). As for soap, i wouldn't be all that surprised if BY couldn't literally turn his game up to top notch. It isn't one big thing, but several, 3 of which you mentioned. i swear that sometimes after a play---not to his side---he appears lost. When the ballcarrier comes at him no problem. It is the other times when i have wondered would some all pro coaching help him. Maybe it falls under knowing where to be, or reading the OL or QB or RB, or the O set. If he could get that part of his game brot up to par, he really could be something special. A gauge of how good our HC is will be to see if he has someone like BY work with soap. i hope so.

now back to gophers and pruning.