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Isaac Sopoaga

  • DVDA
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Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by ezrider:
Quote:
Sopoaga cannot play the 3-4 Nose position...

and you can't write a post that makes sense. Sopoaga absolutely will be able to play the 3-4 NT position. He is faster off the ball than any of the other defensive lineman and stronger than almost anyone in the league. He was occupying a double team at DE much of the season and gets a good push on the offensive linemen. Plus, he plays with heart and goes all out on every play.

One thing most fans don't realize is that it often takes several years for defensive linemen (especially NT) to develop. It's one of the toughest positions to play and when you come in out of college, you're still a kid facing grown men with bad intentions who have been beating on kids like you for years. Take old Ted Washington. He was pretty much of a bust in the beginning and became very valuable as he got older. There is no substitute for experience and knowledge.

You didn't understand what I wrote?

My post is easily understood, I just didn't care to write a lengthy discussion about it. It has been a much discussed issue over the years and I don't care to repeat what has been already said.

If you don't want to put thought into your posts because you "don't care to repeat what has been already said", you should either A) post a link or B) quit being a post whore.
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by Envy:


I'm not denying that Warren is elite and been playing more regular games than Soap. I'm just saying that he has performed a very valuable function in a pass rusher at the LDE position. Castillo got 1.5 sacks and a interception this past season too. Overall though he has made close to 15 sacks and a 115 solos tackles. You can get an effective pass rush from the 3-4 DE spot. Aaron Smith had 5.5 sacks last year and has close to 42 his entire career. As you spoke of Young I say that he got 6 sacks in his last season. If Soap shows flashes of greatness as you said then I would hope he begins to produce that. There are a lot of factors that go into sacking a QB which I do not deny but these players have been able to do it.

Bottom line I believe that Soap needs to do a lot more to justify his position on the team.

I'll ignore your first paragraph since I think me and you already debated that once.

But as for the bold, how would Sopoaga need to justify his position on the team?? Hasn't he proven to be a solid (or serviceable) starter along the D-line, or you won't be happy till he makes the Pro Bowl??
  • Envy
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Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Envy:


I'm not denying that Warren is elite and been playing more regular games than Soap. I'm just saying that he has performed a very valuable function in a pass rusher at the LDE position. Castillo got 1.5 sacks and a interception this past season too. Overall though he has made close to 15 sacks and a 115 solos tackles. You can get an effective pass rush from the 3-4 DE spot. Aaron Smith had 5.5 sacks last year and has close to 42 his entire career. As you spoke of Young I say that he got 6 sacks in his last season. If Soap shows flashes of greatness as you said then I would hope he begins to produce that. There are a lot of factors that go into sacking a QB which I do not deny but these players have been able to do it.

Bottom line I believe that Soap needs to do a lot more to justify his position on the team.

I'll ignore your first paragraph since I think me and you already debated that once.

But as for the bold, how would Sopoaga need to justify his position on the team?? Hasn't he proven to be a solid (or serviceable) starter along the D-line, or you won't be happy till he makes the Pro Bowl??

Agreed lets not revisit that epic

As for wanting Soap to be a pro bowler. Well I suppose I want all the players to be elite at what they do but then this ain't Madden and I ain't 12. No I know you can't build a team of superstars and thats fine. Look anywhere on the zone and you'll see me back up Robinson or Battle when their squad place is questioned. My annoyance with Soap is that his production does not merit the salary. Albeit spread over 5 years. That to me is another wait and hope effort which we don't need if we are to strengthen the 3-4. Now I'm not sure if Balmer is going to be the answer but the fact was that there where certain players in the market and draft of the previous couple years that would have been better signings than Soap. Yet because Soap is still considered a wait and hope effort and whilst we were still waiting for it to happen he then signed a very good contract for a DL which meant because we had thrown everything in with him then we would look bad to replace him. I'm not sure that can be attitude this franchise requires for what effectively might become a back up player on his salary. We can maybe do that with Robinson or Green or Smith etc. They are considered back ups and on back up money. Soap on the other hand is being pushed in a way to defy those that criticise him. Yet it is still not working. He is serviceable. No doubt. Although lets get him on serviceable dollars and then if he becomes good then pay him. If not and something better comes a long that improves the roster then cut him and let it be.

We have too many players on this team that have not performed but because of p**s poor management in previous years they are now untouchable. They continue to get paid for little production. To me Soap is just one of them. It might p**s off a few guys on here but the likes of him and Jennings and Smith are the reasons why our franchise has faltered for so long. We are not smart enough at the moment to find the gems. We spend big on fairly hopeful talent.
[ Edited by Envy on Mar 11, 2009 at 6:30 PM ]
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by Envy:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Envy:


I'm not denying that Warren is elite and been playing more regular games than Soap. I'm just saying that he has performed a very valuable function in a pass rusher at the LDE position. Castillo got 1.5 sacks and a interception this past season too. Overall though he has made close to 15 sacks and a 115 solos tackles. You can get an effective pass rush from the 3-4 DE spot. Aaron Smith had 5.5 sacks last year and has close to 42 his entire career. As you spoke of Young I say that he got 6 sacks in his last season. If Soap shows flashes of greatness as you said then I would hope he begins to produce that. There are a lot of factors that go into sacking a QB which I do not deny but these players have been able to do it.

Bottom line I believe that Soap needs to do a lot more to justify his position on the team.

I'll ignore your first paragraph since I think me and you already debated that once.

But as for the bold, how would Sopoaga need to justify his position on the team?? Hasn't he proven to be a solid (or serviceable) starter along the D-line, or you won't be happy till he makes the Pro Bowl??

Agreed lets not revisit that epic

As for wanting Soap to be a pro bowler. Well I suppose I want all the players to be elite at what they do but then this ain't Madden and I ain't 12. No I know you can't build a team of superstars and thats fine. Look anywhere on the zone and you'll see me back up Robinson or Battle when their squad place is questioned. My annoyance with Soap is that his production does not merit the salary. Albeit spread over 5 years. That to me is another wait and hope effort which we don't need if we are to strengthen the 3-4. Now I'm not sure if Balmer is going to be the answer but the fact was that there where certain players in the market and draft of the previous couple years that would have been better signings than Soap. Yet because Soap is still considered a wait and hope effort and whilst we were still waiting for it to happen he then signed a very good contract for a DL which meant because we had thrown everything in with him then we would look bad to replace him. I'm not sure that can be attitude this franchise requires for what effectively might become a back up player on his salary. We can maybe do that with Robinson or Green or Smith etc. They are considered back ups and on back up money. Soap on the other hand is being pushed in a way to defy those that criticise him. Yet it is still not working. He is serviceable. No doubt. Although lets get him on serviceable dollars and then if he becomes good then pay him. If not and something better comes a long that improves the roster then cut him and let it be.

We have too many players on this team that have not performed but because of p**s poor management in previous years they are now untouchable. They continue to get paid for little production. To me Soap is just one of them. It might p**s off a few guys on here but the likes of him and Jennings and Smith are the reasons why our franchise has faltered for so long. We are not smart enough at the moment to find the gems. We spend big on fairly hopeful talent.

And yes this argument is picking up right where we left off. I know you won't accept Sopoaga and his salary, and that's your opinion, but judging off what you have said in bold, I disagree with the comparison. For one, Sopoaga has been healthy and contributing. Jennings and Smith have been hurt most of their careers and do not or didn't justify their salaries which are twice as much Sopoaga makes. Judging by what Smith has been re-signed by, you can say Sopoaga's contract is very average (like I stated in the other debate) 5 years $20 million and not all of that is guaranteed.

Sopoaga's first full year of starting and his stats are comparable to some of the respected veteran's who play on a 3-4 DL (Ty Warren, Igor Olshansky, Luis Castillo, Chris Canty). And like I also said they would command a much much higher contract than what Sopoaga has. Again, I would have to say, his first year was well earned.
  • Blitz
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I miss Wizolman guaranteeing and ranting about Soap is going to the pro bowl because he would be a beast at LDE. He was dead set on that happening.

[ Edited by Blitz on Mar 11, 2009 at 8:33 PM ]
So, pre-draft the starting down three are going to be...

Smith - Sopoaga - McDonald

Is that right?
  • GEEK
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Originally posted by adrenaline:
So, pre-draft the starting down three are going to be...

Smith - Sopoaga - McDonald

Is that right?

Smith - Franklin - Evans with McDonald - Sopoaga - Balmer as back ups.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Envy:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Envy:


I'm not denying that Warren is elite and been playing more regular games than Soap. I'm just saying that he has performed a very valuable function in a pass rusher at the LDE position. Castillo got 1.5 sacks and a interception this past season too. Overall though he has made close to 15 sacks and a 115 solos tackles. You can get an effective pass rush from the 3-4 DE spot. Aaron Smith had 5.5 sacks last year and has close to 42 his entire career. As you spoke of Young I say that he got 6 sacks in his last season. If Soap shows flashes of greatness as you said then I would hope he begins to produce that. There are a lot of factors that go into sacking a QB which I do not deny but these players have been able to do it.

Bottom line I believe that Soap needs to do a lot more to justify his position on the team.

I'll ignore your first paragraph since I think me and you already debated that once.

But as for the bold, how would Sopoaga need to justify his position on the team?? Hasn't he proven to be a solid (or serviceable) starter along the D-line, or you won't be happy till he makes the Pro Bowl??

Agreed lets not revisit that epic

As for wanting Soap to be a pro bowler. Well I suppose I want all the players to be elite at what they do but then this ain't Madden and I ain't 12. No I know you can't build a team of superstars and thats fine. Look anywhere on the zone and you'll see me back up Robinson or Battle when their squad place is questioned. My annoyance with Soap is that his production does not merit the salary. Albeit spread over 5 years. That to me is another wait and hope effort which we don't need if we are to strengthen the 3-4. Now I'm not sure if Balmer is going to be the answer but the fact was that there where certain players in the market and draft of the previous couple years that would have been better signings than Soap. Yet because Soap is still considered a wait and hope effort and whilst we were still waiting for it to happen he then signed a very good contract for a DL which meant because we had thrown everything in with him then we would look bad to replace him. I'm not sure that can be attitude this franchise requires for what effectively might become a back up player on his salary. We can maybe do that with Robinson or Green or Smith etc. They are considered back ups and on back up money. Soap on the other hand is being pushed in a way to defy those that criticise him. Yet it is still not working. He is serviceable. No doubt. Although lets get him on serviceable dollars and then if he becomes good then pay him. If not and something better comes a long that improves the roster then cut him and let it be.

We have too many players on this team that have not performed but because of p**s poor management in previous years they are now untouchable. They continue to get paid for little production. To me Soap is just one of them. It might p**s off a few guys on here but the likes of him and Jennings and Smith are the reasons why our franchise has faltered for so long. We are not smart enough at the moment to find the gems. We spend big on fairly hopeful talent.

And yes this argument is picking up right where we left off. I know you won't accept Sopoaga and his salary, and that's your opinion, but judging off what you have said in bold, I disagree with the comparison. For one, Sopoaga has been healthy and contributing. Jennings and Smith have been hurt most of their careers and do not or didn't justify their salaries which are twice as much Sopoaga makes. Judging by what Smith has been re-signed by, you can say Sopoaga's contract is very average (like I stated in the other debate) 5 years $20 million and not all of that is guaranteed.

Sopoaga's first full year of starting and his stats are comparable to some of the respected veteran's who play on a 3-4 DL (Ty Warren, Igor Olshansky, Luis Castillo, Chris Canty). And like I also said they would command a much much higher contract than what Sopoaga has. Again, I would have to say, his first year was well earned.

Agree with you totally. Everyone picks on Sopoaga's salary but like you said alot of that is not guaranteed. The other thing is Sopoaga really hasn't been allowed to grow into the NT position with their experiment at DE for him last year. I felt in the second half of 2007 he was showing some good pressure on the QB at NT and descent run stopping ability.
Of the above 6 DLs, the only bonafide starter is jsmith. So, since all are okay, or alright, but none scare anyone, nor do they resemble first rate DLs, how about we just start all six of them, in a 6 man line. Let 'em all play at once, and when one guy gets beaten like a drum or is sucking air like a vacuum, out he goes...and we go 5 man. Next guy to prove he doesn't have it, he goes and we play 4 man...and so on. My guess is we would get down to a one man line, jsmith...and that would be that. But i am always ready to be surprised. Sadly , in this group, i don't see a "surprisee"...and that includes the $20mil(or whatever) soap, whether at NT, DL, DE...it really doesn't seem to matter.

More than anything i would love to see a DL that plays like NYG. They seem to move guys in and out seamlessly, yr on yr, and it makes no difference. Why? Because they evaluate talent to the max(draft & FA), and then they have hired some of the best D coaches in football... We aren't either of those.
All I know is that our Dline looks pretty darn good. Granted we don't have a consistent pass-rusher a la Dwight Freeny or Jarred Allen, however, there is solid depth there and good run stoppers. I would put or Middle linebackers in the top tier in the league. Now if Manny or Parys really step up our front 7, or 8, will be a force.
Give us a legit RT, FS, and solid play from the QB and we are legitimate contenders in the NFC, IMO of course.
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Of the above 6 DLs, the only bonafide starter is jsmith. So, since all are okay, or alright, but none scare anyone, nor do they resemble first rate DLs, how about we just start all six of them, in a 6 man line. Let 'em all play at once, and when one guy gets beaten like a drum or is sucking air like a vacuum, out he goes...and we go 5 man. Next guy to prove he doesn't have it, he goes and we play 4 man...and so on. My guess is we would get down to a one man line, jsmith...and that would be that. But i am always ready to be surprised. Sadly , in this group, i don't see a "surprisee"...and that includes the $20mil(or whatever) soap, whether at NT, DL, DE...it really doesn't seem to matter.

More than anything i would love to see a DL that plays like NYG. They seem to move guys in and out seamlessly, yr on yr, and it makes no difference. Why? Because they evaluate talent to the max(draft & FA), and then they have hired some of the best D coaches in football... We aren't either of those.

From reading your post in the past, it seems you post and rant on frustration. And seeing that we or any team would EVER do a 6 man line unless of course they run a goal line stance as their base package....it isn't gonna happen.

And unless the 9ers go back to a 4-3, you'll never see our DL play like that of NYG's. But you act like our defense is far from being in the upper echelon. Our defense is ranked better than some of the teams that made the playoffs.....shoot our defense ranked better than Arizona's.
Originally posted by wailers15:
Originally posted by TonyStarks:
The guy friggin sucks.

so true, so true. they always talk about how strong he is, and how athletic, but how many sacks does he get? and how many times does he add pressure on the qb? unless he feels the wrath of singletary. i guess this move means no signing of a NT this year.

If we do as much single-gapping with the NT as we did towards the end of last year with Aubrayo, I think he could thrive... Its fairly evident that Manusky prefers to run a much more aggressive version of the 3-4, and I think it warrants trying Soap again at NT due to the fact that his physical ability makes him a perfect fit for the position.

As long as he doesnt need to think too much and just play - I think he'll be alright.
  • GEEK
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If Scot McCloughan had any hair on his balls, he would CUT Isaac Sopoaga immediately and target Mike Wright in free agency.

Wright will be the next legit 3-4 star in this league. Count on it.
Originally posted by dmbgeek87:
If Scot McCloughan had any hair on his balls, he would CUT Isaac Sopoaga immediately and target Mike Wright in free agency.

Wright will be the next legit 3-4 star in this league. Count on it.

Mike Wright? never heard of the guy. I'd rather keep Sopoaga.
Quote:
If Scot McCloughan had any hair on his balls, he would CUT Isaac Sopoaga immediately and target Mike Wright in free agency.

Comments like this one make me wish that either this was the 1980s when 49er fans would never say anything as ridiculous as this (tremendous fan loyalty). It makes me wish we had a minimum IQ for posting on this forum. Sopoaga isn't going anywhere. He's just coming into his prime and developing very nicely. People forget how tough we were against the run last season and Ice played a major part in that achievement which slips right by pseudo-fans.