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Isaac Sopoaga

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  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by Envy:


I'm not denying that Warren is elite and been playing more regular games than Soap. I'm just saying that he has performed a very valuable function in a pass rusher at the LDE position. Castillo got 1.5 sacks and a interception this past season too. Overall though he has made close to 15 sacks and a 115 solos tackles. You can get an effective pass rush from the 3-4 DE spot. Aaron Smith had 5.5 sacks last year and has close to 42 his entire career. As you spoke of Young I say that he got 6 sacks in his last season. If Soap shows flashes of greatness as you said then I would hope he begins to produce that. There are a lot of factors that go into sacking a QB which I do not deny but these players have been able to do it.

Bottom line I believe that Soap needs to do a lot more to justify his position on the team.

I'll ignore your first paragraph since I think me and you already debated that once.

But as for the bold, how would Sopoaga need to justify his position on the team?? Hasn't he proven to be a solid (or serviceable) starter along the D-line, or you won't be happy till he makes the Pro Bowl??
  • Envy
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Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Envy:


I'm not denying that Warren is elite and been playing more regular games than Soap. I'm just saying that he has performed a very valuable function in a pass rusher at the LDE position. Castillo got 1.5 sacks and a interception this past season too. Overall though he has made close to 15 sacks and a 115 solos tackles. You can get an effective pass rush from the 3-4 DE spot. Aaron Smith had 5.5 sacks last year and has close to 42 his entire career. As you spoke of Young I say that he got 6 sacks in his last season. If Soap shows flashes of greatness as you said then I would hope he begins to produce that. There are a lot of factors that go into sacking a QB which I do not deny but these players have been able to do it.

Bottom line I believe that Soap needs to do a lot more to justify his position on the team.

I'll ignore your first paragraph since I think me and you already debated that once.

But as for the bold, how would Sopoaga need to justify his position on the team?? Hasn't he proven to be a solid (or serviceable) starter along the D-line, or you won't be happy till he makes the Pro Bowl??

Agreed lets not revisit that epic

As for wanting Soap to be a pro bowler. Well I suppose I want all the players to be elite at what they do but then this ain't Madden and I ain't 12. No I know you can't build a team of superstars and thats fine. Look anywhere on the zone and you'll see me back up Robinson or Battle when their squad place is questioned. My annoyance with Soap is that his production does not merit the salary. Albeit spread over 5 years. That to me is another wait and hope effort which we don't need if we are to strengthen the 3-4. Now I'm not sure if Balmer is going to be the answer but the fact was that there where certain players in the market and draft of the previous couple years that would have been better signings than Soap. Yet because Soap is still considered a wait and hope effort and whilst we were still waiting for it to happen he then signed a very good contract for a DL which meant because we had thrown everything in with him then we would look bad to replace him. I'm not sure that can be attitude this franchise requires for what effectively might become a back up player on his salary. We can maybe do that with Robinson or Green or Smith etc. They are considered back ups and on back up money. Soap on the other hand is being pushed in a way to defy those that criticise him. Yet it is still not working. He is serviceable. No doubt. Although lets get him on serviceable dollars and then if he becomes good then pay him. If not and something better comes a long that improves the roster then cut him and let it be.

We have too many players on this team that have not performed but because of p**s poor management in previous years they are now untouchable. They continue to get paid for little production. To me Soap is just one of them. It might p**s off a few guys on here but the likes of him and Jennings and Smith are the reasons why our franchise has faltered for so long. We are not smart enough at the moment to find the gems. We spend big on fairly hopeful talent.
[ Edited by Envy on Mar 11, 2009 at 6:30 PM ]
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by Envy:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Envy:


I'm not denying that Warren is elite and been playing more regular games than Soap. I'm just saying that he has performed a very valuable function in a pass rusher at the LDE position. Castillo got 1.5 sacks and a interception this past season too. Overall though he has made close to 15 sacks and a 115 solos tackles. You can get an effective pass rush from the 3-4 DE spot. Aaron Smith had 5.5 sacks last year and has close to 42 his entire career. As you spoke of Young I say that he got 6 sacks in his last season. If Soap shows flashes of greatness as you said then I would hope he begins to produce that. There are a lot of factors that go into sacking a QB which I do not deny but these players have been able to do it.

Bottom line I believe that Soap needs to do a lot more to justify his position on the team.

I'll ignore your first paragraph since I think me and you already debated that once.

But as for the bold, how would Sopoaga need to justify his position on the team?? Hasn't he proven to be a solid (or serviceable) starter along the D-line, or you won't be happy till he makes the Pro Bowl??

Agreed lets not revisit that epic

As for wanting Soap to be a pro bowler. Well I suppose I want all the players to be elite at what they do but then this ain't Madden and I ain't 12. No I know you can't build a team of superstars and thats fine. Look anywhere on the zone and you'll see me back up Robinson or Battle when their squad place is questioned. My annoyance with Soap is that his production does not merit the salary. Albeit spread over 5 years. That to me is another wait and hope effort which we don't need if we are to strengthen the 3-4. Now I'm not sure if Balmer is going to be the answer but the fact was that there where certain players in the market and draft of the previous couple years that would have been better signings than Soap. Yet because Soap is still considered a wait and hope effort and whilst we were still waiting for it to happen he then signed a very good contract for a DL which meant because we had thrown everything in with him then we would look bad to replace him. I'm not sure that can be attitude this franchise requires for what effectively might become a back up player on his salary. We can maybe do that with Robinson or Green or Smith etc. They are considered back ups and on back up money. Soap on the other hand is being pushed in a way to defy those that criticise him. Yet it is still not working. He is serviceable. No doubt. Although lets get him on serviceable dollars and then if he becomes good then pay him. If not and something better comes a long that improves the roster then cut him and let it be.

We have too many players on this team that have not performed but because of p**s poor management in previous years they are now untouchable. They continue to get paid for little production. To me Soap is just one of them. It might p**s off a few guys on here but the likes of him and Jennings and Smith are the reasons why our franchise has faltered for so long. We are not smart enough at the moment to find the gems. We spend big on fairly hopeful talent.

And yes this argument is picking up right where we left off. I know you won't accept Sopoaga and his salary, and that's your opinion, but judging off what you have said in bold, I disagree with the comparison. For one, Sopoaga has been healthy and contributing. Jennings and Smith have been hurt most of their careers and do not or didn't justify their salaries which are twice as much Sopoaga makes. Judging by what Smith has been re-signed by, you can say Sopoaga's contract is very average (like I stated in the other debate) 5 years $20 million and not all of that is guaranteed.

Sopoaga's first full year of starting and his stats are comparable to some of the respected veteran's who play on a 3-4 DL (Ty Warren, Igor Olshansky, Luis Castillo, Chris Canty). And like I also said they would command a much much higher contract than what Sopoaga has. Again, I would have to say, his first year was well earned.
  • Blitz
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I miss Wizolman guaranteeing and ranting about Soap is going to the pro bowl because he would be a beast at LDE. He was dead set on that happening.

[ Edited by Blitz on Mar 11, 2009 at 8:33 PM ]
So, pre-draft the starting down three are going to be...

Smith - Sopoaga - McDonald

Is that right?
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 19,195
Originally posted by adrenaline:
So, pre-draft the starting down three are going to be...

Smith - Sopoaga - McDonald

Is that right?

Smith - Franklin - Evans with McDonald - Sopoaga - Balmer as back ups.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Envy:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Envy:


I'm not denying that Warren is elite and been playing more regular games than Soap. I'm just saying that he has performed a very valuable function in a pass rusher at the LDE position. Castillo got 1.5 sacks and a interception this past season too. Overall though he has made close to 15 sacks and a 115 solos tackles. You can get an effective pass rush from the 3-4 DE spot. Aaron Smith had 5.5 sacks last year and has close to 42 his entire career. As you spoke of Young I say that he got 6 sacks in his last season. If Soap shows flashes of greatness as you said then I would hope he begins to produce that. There are a lot of factors that go into sacking a QB which I do not deny but these players have been able to do it.

Bottom line I believe that Soap needs to do a lot more to justify his position on the team.

I'll ignore your first paragraph since I think me and you already debated that once.

But as for the bold, how would Sopoaga need to justify his position on the team?? Hasn't he proven to be a solid (or serviceable) starter along the D-line, or you won't be happy till he makes the Pro Bowl??

Agreed lets not revisit that epic

As for wanting Soap to be a pro bowler. Well I suppose I want all the players to be elite at what they do but then this ain't Madden and I ain't 12. No I know you can't build a team of superstars and thats fine. Look anywhere on the zone and you'll see me back up Robinson or Battle when their squad place is questioned. My annoyance with Soap is that his production does not merit the salary. Albeit spread over 5 years. That to me is another wait and hope effort which we don't need if we are to strengthen the 3-4. Now I'm not sure if Balmer is going to be the answer but the fact was that there where certain players in the market and draft of the previous couple years that would have been better signings than Soap. Yet because Soap is still considered a wait and hope effort and whilst we were still waiting for it to happen he then signed a very good contract for a DL which meant because we had thrown everything in with him then we would look bad to replace him. I'm not sure that can be attitude this franchise requires for what effectively might become a back up player on his salary. We can maybe do that with Robinson or Green or Smith etc. They are considered back ups and on back up money. Soap on the other hand is being pushed in a way to defy those that criticise him. Yet it is still not working. He is serviceable. No doubt. Although lets get him on serviceable dollars and then if he becomes good then pay him. If not and something better comes a long that improves the roster then cut him and let it be.

We have too many players on this team that have not performed but because of p**s poor management in previous years they are now untouchable. They continue to get paid for little production. To me Soap is just one of them. It might p**s off a few guys on here but the likes of him and Jennings and Smith are the reasons why our franchise has faltered for so long. We are not smart enough at the moment to find the gems. We spend big on fairly hopeful talent.

And yes this argument is picking up right where we left off. I know you won't accept Sopoaga and his salary, and that's your opinion, but judging off what you have said in bold, I disagree with the comparison. For one, Sopoaga has been healthy and contributing. Jennings and Smith have been hurt most of their careers and do not or didn't justify their salaries which are twice as much Sopoaga makes. Judging by what Smith has been re-signed by, you can say Sopoaga's contract is very average (like I stated in the other debate) 5 years $20 million and not all of that is guaranteed.

Sopoaga's first full year of starting and his stats are comparable to some of the respected veteran's who play on a 3-4 DL (Ty Warren, Igor Olshansky, Luis Castillo, Chris Canty). And like I also said they would command a much much higher contract than what Sopoaga has. Again, I would have to say, his first year was well earned.

Agree with you totally. Everyone picks on Sopoaga's salary but like you said alot of that is not guaranteed. The other thing is Sopoaga really hasn't been allowed to grow into the NT position with their experiment at DE for him last year. I felt in the second half of 2007 he was showing some good pressure on the QB at NT and descent run stopping ability.
Of the above 6 DLs, the only bonafide starter is jsmith. So, since all are okay, or alright, but none scare anyone, nor do they resemble first rate DLs, how about we just start all six of them, in a 6 man line. Let 'em all play at once, and when one guy gets beaten like a drum or is sucking air like a vacuum, out he goes...and we go 5 man. Next guy to prove he doesn't have it, he goes and we play 4 man...and so on. My guess is we would get down to a one man line, jsmith...and that would be that. But i am always ready to be surprised. Sadly , in this group, i don't see a "surprisee"...and that includes the $20mil(or whatever) soap, whether at NT, DL, DE...it really doesn't seem to matter.

More than anything i would love to see a DL that plays like NYG. They seem to move guys in and out seamlessly, yr on yr, and it makes no difference. Why? Because they evaluate talent to the max(draft & FA), and then they have hired some of the best D coaches in football... We aren't either of those.
All I know is that our Dline looks pretty darn good. Granted we don't have a consistent pass-rusher a la Dwight Freeny or Jarred Allen, however, there is solid depth there and good run stoppers. I would put or Middle linebackers in the top tier in the league. Now if Manny or Parys really step up our front 7, or 8, will be a force.
Give us a legit RT, FS, and solid play from the QB and we are legitimate contenders in the NFC, IMO of course.
  • Kolohe
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  • Posts: 59,930
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Of the above 6 DLs, the only bonafide starter is jsmith. So, since all are okay, or alright, but none scare anyone, nor do they resemble first rate DLs, how about we just start all six of them, in a 6 man line. Let 'em all play at once, and when one guy gets beaten like a drum or is sucking air like a vacuum, out he goes...and we go 5 man. Next guy to prove he doesn't have it, he goes and we play 4 man...and so on. My guess is we would get down to a one man line, jsmith...and that would be that. But i am always ready to be surprised. Sadly , in this group, i don't see a "surprisee"...and that includes the $20mil(or whatever) soap, whether at NT, DL, DE...it really doesn't seem to matter.

More than anything i would love to see a DL that plays like NYG. They seem to move guys in and out seamlessly, yr on yr, and it makes no difference. Why? Because they evaluate talent to the max(draft & FA), and then they have hired some of the best D coaches in football... We aren't either of those.

From reading your post in the past, it seems you post and rant on frustration. And seeing that we or any team would EVER do a 6 man line unless of course they run a goal line stance as their base package....it isn't gonna happen.

And unless the 9ers go back to a 4-3, you'll never see our DL play like that of NYG's. But you act like our defense is far from being in the upper echelon. Our defense is ranked better than some of the teams that made the playoffs.....shoot our defense ranked better than Arizona's.

Originally posted by wailers15:
Originally posted by TonyStarks:
The guy friggin sucks.

so true, so true. they always talk about how strong he is, and how athletic, but how many sacks does he get? and how many times does he add pressure on the qb? unless he feels the wrath of singletary. i guess this move means no signing of a NT this year.

If we do as much single-gapping with the NT as we did towards the end of last year with Aubrayo, I think he could thrive... Its fairly evident that Manusky prefers to run a much more aggressive version of the 3-4, and I think it warrants trying Soap again at NT due to the fact that his physical ability makes him a perfect fit for the position.

As long as he doesnt need to think too much and just play - I think he'll be alright.
  • GEEK
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If Scot McCloughan had any hair on his balls, he would CUT Isaac Sopoaga immediately and target Mike Wright in free agency.

Wright will be the next legit 3-4 star in this league. Count on it.
Originally posted by dmbgeek87:
If Scot McCloughan had any hair on his balls, he would CUT Isaac Sopoaga immediately and target Mike Wright in free agency.

Wright will be the next legit 3-4 star in this league. Count on it.

Mike Wright? never heard of the guy. I'd rather keep Sopoaga.
Quote:
If Scot McCloughan had any hair on his balls, he would CUT Isaac Sopoaga immediately and target Mike Wright in free agency.

Comments like this one make me wish that either this was the 1980s when 49er fans would never say anything as ridiculous as this (tremendous fan loyalty). It makes me wish we had a minimum IQ for posting on this forum. Sopoaga isn't going anywhere. He's just coming into his prime and developing very nicely. People forget how tough we were against the run last season and Ice played a major part in that achievement which slips right by pseudo-fans.
Well, Kolo, it's a a compliment that you went back and read, or maybe remembered my previous comments...and i pretty much remember yours(especially since, as you noted, this argument is a rehash of those had before). As for a 6 man line, no, unless in 3rd and real short, i haven't seen one before(unless on goal line). But i will tell you this: i sure wondered why not when we, time after time, game after game, couldn't get a passrush on the qB. Just out of curiousity, do you recall ANYTIME in recent 7 yrs we have done that and sustained it? I sure don't.

As for run D, as you well know, K, having a good run D and NO pass D(due to total failure to produce passrush in last 7 yrs)...well, it doesn't make for a good overall D, and nobody is disputing that. What good is a pass D when nobody can get a push on the passer? And that has been us, noln, erickson, Yorks, combined 6-7 yrs.

Yes, we probably will play a 3-4(sometime, maybe all the time), and maybe, due to lack of talent, or perhaps lack of coaching , or maybe crappy drafting and FAing, or most likely all 3, we won't be very good at it. When we can't get a push on the QB, maybe we should be in a 4, or 5 man DL. Who knows, maybe even a 6 man. All i am saying is that a middle of the road run D is fine, but if the other team can literally pass on us at will, and they do, why NOT try a 6 man DL? Sure it sounds weird, but haven't you ever seen us on 3rd and whatever, know a pass is coming, and just as surely, know we won't get passrush on the QB?

And like it or not, the DL HAS to be part of that. For seven yrs it hasn't. So maybe we do need to do something unconventional like play 6 man DL. What could it hurt? What we are doing now doesn't work, and just stopping the run (in the middle of the pack) isn't going to get it in the nfl. Add to that our inferior talent along the DL(or as i said, maybe it is the incredibly poor coaching, or game calling)...and i believe it all contributes to our defensive ineptitude.

Finally, since i have not made an issue out of it in a long time, is the $ issue. Did you, or i, expect our bosses(unless you are self employed), ever expect to get mammoth payraises, BASED ON POTENTIAL? Certainly not in my case, nor in anyone else's i know. I know, i know, soap looks like one menacing, impressive sonof*gun. FRankly, he should scare people. But do you really think his tepid play since arrival was worth dropping another $20 or 24mil on the guy? Man, i sure don't . Nor do i think that is sound football practice on ANYBODY, not just soap, yet that's what our mgmt did.

My comment on that move was "harebrained", but deserving... it was not. Soap is paid on-the-come, not on performance, and frankly, that bothers the heck out of me, especially on a team this bad for 7 long, painful yrs. At what point, K, do we say, "Ah jeez, soap was a mistake?" Are you ready for him to continue to develop, but not be a factor on D? And if so, for how long? That is my issue. We keep waiting, but all i see is the same thing. Surely, somebody upstairs has to be cognizant of that.

Kolo, as i see this team now--- turn back the clock--- and i just see us where we were 7 yrs ago, w/r/to performance...ie, i don't see us much better now than we were then. And for 7 yrs, that is a disgrace---put the blame where you like. Is soap part of that...a poor choice, that we are going to keep riding until he retires? Just out of curiousity, how long do you give a guy like that before saying "Enough"?

If that is ranting and raving, then i confess...GUILTY as charged. But everything written above is just a compilation of game tapes on "how not to do it" . Every time i go thru them i feel worse...like somebody, maybe a lot of somebodies, has let us down. Soap just happens to be one of them.

You've heard this before, but looking at our biggest goof in last 7 yrs came this past yr, and that was not going full out to sign Pioli. We're shy on talent, poor on choosing talent, lousy at coordination with a reachable set of goals in the future, have been creamed by lousy coaching...it is a laundry list of WHY we needed and still need a Pioli, or HOFO in charge. Until we get one i can only see dibs and dabs at improvement, but no real focused plan for improvement. Watch KC...they will turn around in one yr, just like parcells did in miami. Us, heck, we're just screwed to more of the same.

A true fan, or any fan for that matter deserves better. So do the players we sign, and the coaches we get. A HOFO is the guy that puts that all in order, or focuses the team as it were. With a guy like that aboard, i don't believe a soap, or whoever, would last that long...nor should he. There comes a point where you have to produce. And everything i have seen re: soap says that he hasn't. But in all fairness, he has plenty of company, and that is the disgrace holding us back. We need direction and have none. Until that happens, getting a HOFO, there is no reason to expect us to be any different this yr than last 7 yrs, and sadly, that wasn't very interesting... nor was it much fun.

Hey, K, that said, i hope soap knocks 'em dead this yr, which is the same i hope for every yr. But do i really expect it? No.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Mar 12, 2009 at 7:09 AM ]
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