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Eric Heitmann is a Good Football Player

Watch Heitmann against the Seahawks, Cards, Giants, Philly, where he just got dominated inside, the defender constantly had a jump on him, some of had to do with his strenght and some of it with the snap count, he never helps himself either since he keeps his head down the whole time and as soon as he goes to lift his head, the balls gets snapped.

He's better fitted as a guard then a center, imo, he just lacks the strenght against some of these bigger monsters in the NFL today.

As previously stated we run a power block scheme not a zone, and that sure isn't his strenght. He was a fine guard and pretty good center 'till his knees went out on him. Granted he did have a good day against Ratliff, but I don't see those to often.
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by moopoo:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Here's one more myth
MadDog49er is a good NFL evaluator

Take the challenge. Dare to embrace the truth.

Frank Gore
Att Yds Avg Lng TD
@ DAL L 22-35 14 26 1.9 7 0


2-4-DAL 4 (:49) 21-F.Gore up the middle to DAL 4 for no gain (90-J.Ratliff; 55-Z.Thomas).
3-8-SF 3 (9:05) 21-F.Gore up the middle to SF 3 for no gain (90-J.Ratliff).

HUGE play!! inside the 5 you need to move the pile


and the play where Ratliff went untouched is all on Heitmann. He sets up the blocking assignments.
It's not like he hasn't done that before (see: Alex Smith injury)

The second play you listed was from the Niners's 3 yard line, not the Dallas 3 yard line. And, it was a 3rd and 8 play. Not a 3rd and goal.

I already chronicled the first play you listed as one of his weakest plays of the game.

The bias against Heitmann is out of control. Nobody every seems to blame Wragge, Baas, Snyder in short line situation. It is always the guy snapping the ball to the center. If someone can explain why none of the other guys get mentioned in this lack of surge, I would appreciate it.

I think you have a biased opinion of Heitman is out of control too. Because I can not see the game again, I will DVR the rest of them. But I do know that though Heitman has decent highlights at part of his game, he is not a good center because he does not win the battles that he should consistently. and he always has been that way, nothing changed. A sporadic good play now and then is not going to help the team win against the better teams of the NFL, bet on it. As you even say, they were backed up against their own goal line, and he failed when it counted the most, that always has been the history with him. All of the decent plays in between means nothing when you can not count on him, when you need it the most.

And next week, you will be shocked to see how well he plays the game. Trust me. He is very good.

As I stated earlier, he is one of the best DT's in the NFL, and for almost the entire game, Ratliff was neutralized.

http://www.nfl.com/players/gamelogs?id=RAT586227
WOW HE'S A MONSTER
HOW CAN ANYONE CONTAIN HIM!!!!



That guy is a below waverage NT. His sats are not even better than our own NTs. The Cardinals shut his arse out , he had zilch

[ Edited by moopoo on Nov 25, 2008 at 19:01:29 ]
lmao on the MadDog pile-on.
I respectfully have to disagree MD. While he has had some good games, I've watched much more bad games by Heitmann than good ones this season. Too many times have I seen him blown off the ball where there was no one to blame but himself. If it were otherwise I would agree, but I just haven't seen it.

Wow. Now for the other posts.. Let me just say that anyone saying "Ratliff sucks" .. Clearly does not know what they're talking about, especially if they try to use stats as a basis for saying how good he is.

Ratliff is one of the best in the NFC.

[ Edited by OnTheClock on Nov 25, 2008 at 19:04:01 ]
I don't want stats to get in the way of anyone's theory, but according to footballoutsiders.com, the Niners rank third in the NFC in running the ball up the middle. And up the middle is.....that horrible Eric Heitmann.

"49ers are significantly better on the other side of the field. They're third in the league at runs to left end, and also third in the league at runs up the middle. 59% of their runs are up the middle (against a league average of 50%), so expect Jay Ratliff to have a big day. It's going to be essential for Bradie James and Zach Thomas to plug the gaps alongside Ratliff, and for Ware and Burnett to eliminate the angles for Frank Gore to cut back and bounce plays outside."

Looks like they had the defensive playbook in advance, except for Ratliff having a big day.

The Niners Third in the League in Running Up the Middle

Link Showing Niners OL Stats: Heitmann Leading the Number 3 Running NFC Team in the Middle

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Nov 25, 2008 at 20:32:53 ]
For the skeptics on Ratliff, here is just one article on the player, besides the comments from Martz, Madden, etc.:

If Rachal is in at right guard or if Wragge starts his 11th straight game there, they will at some point in Sunday's game be called on to help Heitmann double-team Cowboys nose tackle Jay Ratliff, an unusually talented player for the position.

Most nose tackles are built like floor safes with legs and contribute little to the pass rush. Not Ratliff. An agile 300-pounder in his fourth year, Ratliff has six sacks, most in the league by a nose tackle.

"Ratliff's the type of player who still has power but he has quickness," Heitmann said. "They use him on third down to rush the passer, which is different than what you see from a typical NFL nose guy. He does have a nice combination of quickness and power."

Said Foerster after a week of film study, "When he gets isolated one on one, or even when he's doubled, he's relentless at getting to the quarterback."


Thoughts on Ratliff by People Who are Intelligent
Honestly, skeptics, is the best that you've got? You are losing the battle, badly.
Go back and watch the tape, eat crow, and admit you are wrong. If Heitmann bites it next week, I'll do the same.

As of right now, if you click the link above that shows the stats, the Niners run the ball very well up the middle.

Once again, I'm just here to squash more of the ridiculous theories out there.

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Nov 25, 2008 at 20:37:21 ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Honestly, skeptics, is the best that you've got? You are losing the battle, badly.
Go back and watch the tape, eat crow, and admit you are wrong. If Heitmann bites it next week, I'll do the same.

As of right now, if you click the link above that shows the stats, the Niners run the ball very well up the middle.

Once again, I'm just here to squash more of the ridiculous theories out there.
He is ranked #33 in the list of centers by Scouts Inc.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/players/scouting?playerId=3739
Quote:
Comment: Heitmann has been a dependable starter at center for the 49ers for his whole six year career. He has played a lot of games and has been effective, if not flashy. He is very smart and has the ability to play guard as well as center and can make all the in line calls for this team. He understands angles and how to leverage himself to get the job done. He is not overly powerful, but keeps his pad level down and his feet under him. Heitmann is not a great athlete and does not recover easily when he starts to get off balance. He has enough short-area quickness to make most reach blocks or to get to the second level and position himself to cut off backside pressure. He does a good job of using his hands to get a good fit and steer opponents on by the pocket. He can struggle when it comes to holding his ground against some of the bigger, more powerful bull rushers. When Heitmann tries to pull or trap block he does not adjust on the move very well and he will struggle to make solid contact in space. He pretty much needs to play for a zone-blocking team that does not ask their interior linemen to be real athletic.
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Honestly, skeptics, is the best that you've got? You are losing the battle, badly.
Go back and watch the tape, eat crow, and admit you are wrong. If Heitmann bites it next week, I'll do the same.

As of right now, if you click the link above that shows the stats, the Niners run the ball very well up the middle.

Once again, I'm just here to squash more of the ridiculous theories out there.
He is ranked #33 in the list of centers by Scouts Inc.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/players/scouting?playerId=3739
Quote:
Comment: Heitmann has been a dependable starter at center for the 49ers for his whole six year career. He has played a lot of games and has been effective, if not flashy. He is very smart and has the ability to play guard as well as center and can make all the in line calls for this team. He understands angles and how to leverage himself to get the job done. He is not overly powerful, but keeps his pad level down and his feet under him. Heitmann is not a great athlete and does not recover easily when he starts to get off balance. He has enough short-area quickness to make most reach blocks or to get to the second level and position himself to cut off backside pressure. He does a good job of using his hands to get a good fit and steer opponents on by the pocket. He can struggle when it comes to holding his ground against some of the bigger, more powerful bull rushers. When Heitmann tries to pull or trap block he does not adjust on the move very well and he will struggle to make solid contact in space. He pretty much needs to play for a zone-blocking team that does not ask their interior linemen to be real athletic.

This was probably an offseason publication that you are quoting. At the end of the preseason, here is what ESPN.com had to say:

Best No. 7: No member of the team wears No. 7 on his jersey, but center Eric Heitmann qualifies as the best seventh-round draft choice on the roster -- and in the division. He has 82 starts over the past six seasons and there isn't a better center in the NFC West.

Heitmann Ranked the Best Center in the NFC West

Now that we have that settled, can I add that neither article means a thing. The basis of my argument has been his play this season. The numbers do not lie about Heitmann. The Niners have ran 59% of the time through the middle, which is over the league average of 50%. So, the team has confidence in him. The Niners are also ranked third in the NFL in running efficiency up the middle, as noted by footballoutsiders. com, who tracks the plays.

Third in the NFL is not bad. In fact, I think it is pretty darn good.

Read, Weep
Not that I think Heitmann is bad.. I've simply been very displeased with many instances where he simply couldn't sustain his blocks or was immediately blown of the ball.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Honestly, skeptics, is the best that you've got? You are losing the battle, badly.
Go back and watch the tape, eat crow, and admit you are wrong. If Heitmann bites it next week, I'll do the same.

As of right now, if you click the link above that shows the stats, the Niners run the ball very well up the middle.

Once again, I'm just here to squash more of the ridiculous theories out there.
He is ranked #33 in the list of centers by Scouts Inc.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/players/scouting?playerId=3739
Quote:
Comment: Heitmann has been a dependable starter at center for the 49ers for his whole six year career. He has played a lot of games and has been effective, if not flashy. He is very smart and has the ability to play guard as well as center and can make all the in line calls for this team. He understands angles and how to leverage himself to get the job done. He is not overly powerful, but keeps his pad level down and his feet under him. Heitmann is not a great athlete and does not recover easily when he starts to get off balance. He has enough short-area quickness to make most reach blocks or to get to the second level and position himself to cut off backside pressure. He does a good job of using his hands to get a good fit and steer opponents on by the pocket. He can struggle when it comes to holding his ground against some of the bigger, more powerful bull rushers. When Heitmann tries to pull or trap block he does not adjust on the move very well and he will struggle to make solid contact in space. He pretty much needs to play for a zone-blocking team that does not ask their interior linemen to be real athletic.

This was probably an offseason publication that you are quoting. At the end of the preseason, here is what ESPN.com had to say:

Best No. 7: No member of the team wears No. 7 on his jersey, but center Eric Heitmann qualifies as the best seventh-round draft choice on the roster -- and in the division. He has 82 starts over the past six seasons and there isn't a better center in the NFC West.

Heitmann Ranked the Best Center in the NFC West

Now that we have that settled, can I add that neither article means a thing. The basis of my argument has been his play this season. The numbers do not lie about Heitmann. The Niners have ran 59% of the time through the middle, which is over the league average of 50%. So, the team has confidence in him. The Niners are also ranked third in the NFL in running efficiency up the middle, as noted by footballoutsiders. com, who tracks the plays.

Third in the NFL is not bad. In fact, I think it is pretty darn good.

Read, Weep
#1
Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. This is the only statistic on this page that includes quarterbacks.
PowerSuccess PowerRank
50% 32

#2
It's MID/GUARD not just MID

wow now look at that yes yes it's true he is a great center. Why did I ever doubt our interior line

#3
Being the best Center in the NFC West isn't saying much
Chris Spencer C SEA
Lyle Sendlein C ARI
Nick Leckey C STL
won't be pro bowlers any time soon

[ Edited by solidg2000 on Nov 25, 2008 at 21:38:30 ]
  • redwoodniner
  • Info N/A
Well, this thread has gotten to be more than a little over the top, but since "piling on" hasn't been called in about 15-20 years, might as well....

MadDog deserves respect and attention for his research, analysis, and conclusions: within limits I accept his argument in this thread-as he says, one can deal with the facts, or....

...but his critics also strike me as correct in their analyses: Heitmann, like our entire team, is good enough, but good enough for what? 3-8, that's what. Eleven carries for eleven yards for Gore against a good defense. Push? Move a defender off the line? Show me that on film, and then give me a percentage of how often that has happened this season for the center of our line.

Or try it another way: compare Heitmann with Saturday and Hartings, Bentley and Kreutz; Hardwick, Burke, and Gurode, and tell me--how does Heitmann compare to them?

I don't see Pro-bowl on the field, I see adequate at best.

I'd trust him with my sixteen year old virgin daughter because....
Heitmann is an average Center. He is a smart one but one that is inconsistent. He isn't and hasn't been playing well for a while now. It might have to do with the chemistry also of the oline since there are a lot of new starters but IMO we also have to change our running scheme from a finesse one to a more of a Power running one. We have to get rid of Martz.
I'd agree Heitmann's a smart player...but, is a good C what we need? I think we need a great C...especially if we're going to be a power running team. I think we need a mauler...which is why I've been calling for Baas at C for quite awhile now. I like Baas at LG...but, at C, I think he could become a Pro Bowler. I know EH's contract was extended...and I know we drafted Wallace, but, I'd really like to see us draft Cal's Alex Mack. The guy's the real deal and would give us a stud to anchor our OL for years. And, before anyone says it, yeah, we also need a good OT.
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Here's one more myth
MadDog49er is a good NFL evaluator