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And the Anti-Heitmann Crowd Suddenly Went Silent

I like Eric but he just still isn't the same player he was before the injuries
A simple bull rush and you take him all the way back

And yes I still think that the run game is way better with Baas at guard and Wragge (stronger then Heitman) at center. When we have that line up in we seem to break longer runs and we seem to own the line of scrimmage
A man gets more respect by saying he is wrong once in a while rather than saying he's right all the time.
A few thoughts for Maddog:

1. After just a few games, you came on the board and pronounced that JTO would not be the starter after a handful games. I'd say you were pretty quick to judge him and implied that anyone who was excited about JTO was a moron:

"Does anyone honestly believe that JTO will survive the first handful of games before being demoted? You know it is going to happen.

The moment JTO strings three incomplete passes together, the masses will turn on him, and will be calling for Smith's name. The media will be all over it, and we will see number 11 on the field again. I've already looked in the crystal ball.

Oh, this silly board. The overreaction, and microanalyzation is hilarious. Thanks for the entertainment."

2. It's pretty easy to come on the board and tell us how smart you are AFTER Heitmann has a good game. Where were you before? Where are all your "Heitmann is one of the best centers in the league" proclamations before this game? Didn't see you at all in this thread:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=107903&highlight=09etihW
Dog, i didn't know heitmann broke his leg last yr, maybe thru inattention, maybe thru 6 weeks in hospital in SD. But i do know he had an excellent season in 2006, and not a good one last yr, but perhaps he was playing hurt, which shows he wants to play. Unfortunately the PT i saw of heitmann last yr was not superlative, nor was it mediocre. It was bad. This yr thru TC and preseason, and for first two games, i continued to see our C kicked backward on way too many snaps, and also saw him contribute to a pounding on our Qb, if not sacks(and there was one) , then hits, knockdowns, etc.

Sunday he looked like the 2006 version of heitmann. What happened? Either he got it(blocking system for martz O) , or the lions are so bad everybody looked good on OL. Who knows, maybe it was a bit of both. The fact the entire OL, incl Sims and Baas all looked good gives a bit of credence to less than average competition, but regardless of the etiology, i just hope, and look forward to more of the same.

My concern? Alex's injury came with SEA coming right over heitmann's back. That was what, game 3 or thereabouts? i just don't or didn't want to see more of that, and until yesterday, we all saw it. Playing an injured OL , like heitmann last yr, is a recipe for disaster. Sometimes, or usually , injured guys heal and return to play as well or better. Sometimes they just don't. We have a #1 QB, and then we have...well we have shaun. i do not want to see a repeat of last yr on our QB, and thus my comments. Heitmann did great on Sun, and i certainly hope he continues to do well. If not, or if he should become a freeway to the Qb, then i would be looking to put someone else in there who can block for JT.

As you are aware , Dog, noln's allegiance to starters is , well, unusual, in that even if a starter stinks it up, until injured, he stays out there. Kwame should have been benched about 12 games before he sat the pine for his last yr. We should not have to have a preventable problem like that on our OL.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by dmbgeek87:
He wasn't good last year, part recovery of his injury, and part scheme.

The criticism of Heitmann is warranted.

You can act high and mighty bout defending Heitmann but tell me this:

if he is, in fact, good, then why haven't the 49ers signed him to an extension while drafting a player in the 4th round to potentially replace him?

You obviously do not read. Please do a ten second internet search. I'm begging you. Read what the people around the NFL have to say. He was injured early last season, but he played a lot better at the end of the season. He is considered one of the best interior linemen in the NFC. Once again, please feel free to search what the pros have to say.

I will add that the team thinks so lowly of Heitmann that they made him....one of the four captains on the team. Yeah, he stinks.

Heitmann broke his leg in 2006, and also is scheduled for free agency. Free means free, which means he is not obligated to return.

Finally, name all of the high priced interior linemen that Nolan has kept on the team. I count.....none. The Niners don't spend their money that way.

link?

Captain Heitmann

Review of Cards Game

Preseason Analysis

Barrows' Analysis of Heitmann

CC Times Scouting Report

NYT NFL Contributor

"Best Center in the NFC West"-ESPN

How is this for a start?

ah, thank you. its nice to see assertions proven.

again, i like heitmann. nothing against him. he was crap half of last year and he's having a great beginning to this year. kudos to....Heitmann.
  • dmatt
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,326
Originally posted by 09etihW:
A few thoughts for Maddog:

1. After just a few games, you came on the board and pronounced that JTO would not be the starter after a handful games. I'd say you were pretty quick to judge him and implied that anyone who was excited about JTO was a moron:

"Does anyone honestly believe that JTO will survive the first handful of games before being demoted? You know it is going to happen.

The moment JTO strings three incomplete passes together, the masses will turn on him, and will be calling for Smith's name. The media will be all over it, and we will see number 11 on the field again. I've already looked in the crystal ball.

Oh, this silly board. The overreaction, and microanalyzation is hilarious. Thanks for the entertainment."

2. It's pretty easy to come on the board and tell us how smart you are AFTER Heitmann has a good game. Where were you before? Where are all your "Heitmann is one of the best centers in the league" proclamations before this game? Didn't see you at all in this thread:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=107903&highlight=09etihW

I'm not a big maddog follower, but I think he may have been spot on with JTO has Smith not gotten hurt. We need to see how JTO plays deep in to the season before we can judge his opinion.
  • dmatt
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,326
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by dmbgeek87:
He wasn't good last year, part recovery of his injury, and part scheme.

The criticism of Heitmann is warranted.

You can act high and mighty bout defending Heitmann but tell me this:

if he is, in fact, good, then why haven't the 49ers signed him to an extension while drafting a player in the 4th round to potentially replace him?

You obviously do not read. Please do a ten second internet search. I'm begging you. Read what the people around the NFL have to say. He was injured early last season, but he played a lot better at the end of the season. He is considered one of the best interior linemen in the NFC. Once again, please feel free to search what the pros have to say.

I will add that the team thinks so lowly of Heitmann that they made him....one of the four captains on the team. Yeah, he stinks.

Heitmann broke his leg in 2006, and also is scheduled for free agency. Free means free, which means he is not obligated to return.

Finally, name all of the high priced interior linemen that Nolan has kept on the team. I count.....none. The Niners don't spend their money that way.

link?

Captain Heitmann

Review of Cards Game

Preseason Analysis

Barrows' Analysis of Heitmann

CC Times Scouting Report

NYT NFL Contributor

"Best Center in the NFC West"-ESPN

How is this for a start?

ah, thank you. its nice to see assertions proven.

again, i like heitmann. nothing against him. he was crap half of last year and he's having a great beginning to this year. kudos to....Heitmann.

How do internet links prove anything. It is just a link to more opinion, just someone else's.
Originally posted by dmatt:
Originally posted by 09etihW:
A few thoughts for Maddog:

1. After just a few games, you came on the board and pronounced that JTO would not be the starter after a handful games. I'd say you were pretty quick to judge him and implied that anyone who was excited about JTO was a moron:

"Does anyone honestly believe that JTO will survive the first handful of games before being demoted? You know it is going to happen.

The moment JTO strings three incomplete passes together, the masses will turn on him, and will be calling for Smith's name. The media will be all over it, and we will see number 11 on the field again. I've already looked in the crystal ball.

Oh, this silly board. The overreaction, and microanalyzation is hilarious. Thanks for the entertainment."

2. It's pretty easy to come on the board and tell us how smart you are AFTER Heitmann has a good game. Where were you before? Where are all your "Heitmann is one of the best centers in the league" proclamations before this game? Didn't see you at all in this thread:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=107903&highlight=09etihW

I'm not a big maddog follower, but I think he may have been spot on with JTO has Smith not gotten hurt. We need to see how JTO plays deep in to the season before we can judge his opinion.

Spot on? So you're saying had Smith not been hurt, JTO would be benched for the Saints game and Alex would be starting?
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,144
Originally posted by 49ERGLENN:
Originally posted by 09etihW:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by 49ers:
I agree with dmbgeek87...

regardless MD, sometimes you need a dose of your own advice: I call to the stand Ashley Lelie. EOS.


I do remember the huge impact Lelie was going to have on our squad this year. And, people called me a party pooper.

And your prediction of JTO's imminent demise?

pwned;

POTD
You know what I have had it up to here with you arrogant ass attitude Maddog. You know what you are even more arrogant than me and football is my job! I deal with it everyday and actually understand it. You know what?? EVERY time I have ever asked you a real high level technical question you have been unable to answer. You know what you read things on the internet and then repost it here as your "gospel" you, "talk to scouts" and use generics terms when talking about players but you know what you never bring up any high level technical information.
I may not be able to write post as articulate as you but you never argue any threads with me when I am talking high level schemes or technique. The fact is "DOG" that you are a high school teacher. The FACT is, that you obviously spend a lot of time reading about football on the internet but let me ask you, do you even coach football at the high school level? No, I already checked, referring back to the name given by Matt in his article. I asked scouts and coaches alike and none of them heard of you. Fact is, that in no way are you involved in the higher level of football. If you are the talent evaluator that you claim to be, then you would be making more money than me, as a head talent scout at either a huge college or a pro team. Yet you stay making nothing as a high school teacher....hmmmm....FACT is if you had all the knowledge you claim to have, you would be able to be my boss easily but you aren't and you don't have that knowledge. Get real, you are a guy who knows how to use the internet to get more info than most about football but in now way are you a talent evaluator or a scout.
What you are is a guy who has gotten way to big for even me to take, and I am known for my arrogance. The difference is when people ask, I am more than willing to talk in depth about scheme and be really cool about it. I will not make a post about how stupid all the other "experts" are. You need to realize who you are, and where you are at in life and put yourself back in check.

[ Edited by nvchamp9ers on Sep 22, 2008 at 21:25:39 ]
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Dog, i didn't know heitmann broke his leg last yr, maybe thru inattention, maybe thru 6 weeks in hospital in SD. But i do know he had an excellent season in 2006, and not a good one last yr, but perhaps he was playing hurt, which shows he wants to play. Unfortunately the PT i saw of heitmann last yr was not superlative, nor was it mediocre. It was bad. This yr thru TC and preseason, and for first two games, i continued to see our C kicked backward on way too many snaps, and also saw him contribute to a pounding on our Qb, if not sacks(and there was one) , then hits, knockdowns, etc.

Sunday he looked like the 2006 version of heitmann. What happened? Either he got it(blocking system for martz O) , or the lions are so bad everybody looked good on OL. Who knows, maybe it was a bit of both. The fact the entire OL, incl Sims and Baas all looked good gives a bit of credence to less than average competition, but regardless of the etiology, i just hope, and look forward to more of the same.

My concern? Alex's injury came with SEA coming right over heitmann's back. That was what, game 3 or thereabouts? i just don't or didn't want to see more of that, and until yesterday, we all saw it. Playing an injured OL , like heitmann last yr, is a recipe for disaster. Sometimes, or usually , injured guys heal and return to play as well or better. Sometimes they just don't. We have a #1 QB, and then we have...well we have shaun. i do not want to see a repeat of last yr on our QB, and thus my comments. Heitmann did great on Sun, and i certainly hope he continues to do well. If not, or if he should become a freeway to the Qb, then i would be looking to put someone else in there who can block for JT.

As you are aware , Dog, noln's allegiance to starters is , well, unusual, in that even if a starter stinks it up, until injured, he stays out there. Kwame should have been benched about 12 games before he sat the pine for his last yr. We should not have to have a preventable problem like that on our OL.

1) Baas isn't starting. He was the starter before the injury and should be starting now, but isn't
2) If I remember correctly Heitman injured his leg late in 06
Intense
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,144
Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:
You know what I have had it up to here with you arrogant ass attitude Maddog. You know what you are even more arrogant than me and football is my job! I deal with it everyday and actually understand it. You know what?? EVERY time I have ever asked you a real high level technically question you have been unable to answer. You know what you read things on the internet and then repost it here as your "gospel" you, "talk to scouts" and use generics terms when talking about players but you know what you never bring up any high level technical information.
I may not be able to write post as articulate as you but you never argue any threads with me when I am talking high level schemes or technique. The fact is "DOG" that you are a high school teacher. The FACT is, that you obviously spend a lot of time reading about football on the internet but let me ask you, do you even coach football at the high school level? No, I already checked, referring back to the name given by Matt in his article. I asked scouts and coaches alike and known knew you. Fact is, that in no way are you involved in the higher level of football. If you are the talent evaluator that you claim to be, then you would be making more money than me, as a head talent scout at either a huge college or a pro team. Yet you stay making nothing as a high school teacher....hmmmm....FACT is if you had all the knowledge you claim to have, you would be able to be my boss easily but you aren't and you don't have that knowledge. Get real, you are a guy who knows how to use the internet to get more info than most about football but in now way are you a talent evaluator or a scout.
What you are is a guy who has gotten way to big for even me to take, and I am known for my arrogance. The difference is when people ask, I am more than willing to talk in depth about scheme and be really cool about it. I will not make a post about how stupid all the other "experts" are. You need to realize who you are, and where you are at in life and put yourself back in check.

You know what? Both of you pipe down.

I am a GM, Coach, QB, RB, OL, DL, WR, TE, FB, DL, LB, DB, K, P, KR/PR, OC, DC, Strength trainer, scout, and position coach for my animated football franchise.

I actually have a track record and I am currently 34-0 in it.

Suck on that.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Captain Heitmann

An article stating that Eric Heitmann has been named as a team captain. No praise from anyone.

Evidence of league-wide recognition for Heitmann=

Quote:
Review of Cards Game

Kevin Lynch, a SF writer, saying "Center Eric Heitmann shifted the line adroitly and no one broke into the backfield untouched (except once but in that case it was up to O'Sullivan to get rid of the ball and he did). Heitmann also did a fine job stopping the pressure up the middle. All the heat came from outside."

Evidence of league-wide recognition for Heitmann= Minimal. It is a review of one game (Arizona, Week 1). No opinion of him overall as a player, just evaluation that he played well in Week 1.

Quote:
Preseason Analysis

Another article written by a SF writer, Craig Massei. Here is what he says about Heitmann:

"With new opening-day starters at every position except center - which is capably manned by veteran Eric Heitmann, who is playing the best football of his career as the season begins..."

"...A solid center in Eric Heitmann."

The first statement is relative to Heitmann's own performance, and not a statement on how he is regarded league-wide. It would be a definite stretch of the imagination to say that saying that Heitmann was "solid" is a glowing endorsement along the lines of him being one of the best interior linemen in the NFC.

Evidence of league-wide recognition for Heitmann= Minimal Sorry, a local writer calling him "solid" doesn't make a compelling case.

Quote:
Barrows' Analysis of Heitmann

"A year ago at this time, Heitmann had made a Herculean effort to return to the field following a broken leg late in the 2006 season. Largely because of that effort, he won the team's Bobb McKittrick award (voted on by the offensive line) as well as the Ed Block Courage award. Heitmann, however, wasn't himself early in the season, and he and the rest of the interior of the offensive line struggled mightily. (Search: Smith, Alex + Bernard, Rocky). Heitmann's play improved by the end of the season, and so far this summer he and Jennings have been the most impressive linemen. It's a good time to be playing well; Heitmann is in the final year of his contract. Last year, only one starting center was paid less. Heitmann should be rewarded. The question is whether the 49ers or one of the 31 other teams in the league will do the rewarding."

Evidence of league-wide recognition for Heitmann?= You tell me.

Quote:
CC Times Scouting Report

"Center Eric Heitmann is playing at his highest level since breaking a leg late in 2006"

Evidence of league-wide recognition for Heitmann?=Yikes, not even close.

NYT NFL Contributor

"Only center Eric Heitmann returns to the same position after starting all 16 games last year, as he played well last year after returning from a broken leg suffered late in the 2006 season"

Evidence of league-wide recognition= The best so far, although even MadDog describes Heitmann as "playing well at the end of the season" last year. Their opinion of his 2007 season as a whole seems to be in the minority. But at least it's from the NY Times.

Quote:
"Best Center in the NFC West"-ESPN

"No member of the team wears No. 7 on his jersey, but center Eric Heitmann qualifies as the best seventh-round draft choice on the roster -- and in the division. He has 82 starts over the past six seasons and there isn't a better center in the NFC West."

Evidence of league-wide recognition for Heitmann?= Somewhat. Once again, at least it's a national publication. However, I'm not sure that many people on this board, including the ones who are lukewarm about him, believe that he isn't better than Lyle Sendlein, Chris Spencer, & Nick Leckey. Saying that Heitmann is the "best Center in the NFC West" isn't exactly effusive praise.

Quote:
How is this for a start?

Fairly unconvincing.

[ Edited by LA9erFan on Sep 22, 2008 at 21:29:40 ]