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Schefter reports: ATL to release CB Robinson, DE Abraham, RB Turner

Originally posted by baltien:
I don't get the opposition to "renting" Revis for a year. The way I see it is unless they're a WR, anyone we draft has slim to no chance of starting anyway so it's not that big of a deal.

I'd be willing to part with our (original) second and maybe a fourth to secure Revis. Even if we can't get him extended, it'd be we'll worth it assuming he stays healthy.

And really, this helps him out too because if we win a ring, his price will go up even higher next year. $10 mil will look like a drop in the bucket when compared to what he'd command then.

I'm sure he knows this, meaning he'll come motivated to play.

If we are going with an injured guy, I'd rather try to sign Grimes longterm. Good teams draft their own Revis, they don't thro away draft picks for 1 year. We have a lot of picks this year, but we certainly won't have this many picks every year. We need constantly improving depth that can take over starting positions when our success makes it impossible for us to hang onto some of our own guys. I thought Robinson might come cheap, and the fact that he was released means he will not affect our comp equation next year. Signing Robinson and trading for Revis are completely different topics. A 2nd round pick could emerge as a longterm high-impact starter, which would mean much more than a very good player contributing for one year, right after a major injury, IMO.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
If we are going with an injured guy, I'd rather try to sign Grimes longterm. Good teams draft their own Revis, they don't thro away draft picks for 1 year. We have a lot of picks this year, but we certainly won't have this many picks every year. We need constantly improving depth that can take over starting positions when our success makes it impossible for us to hang onto some of our own guys. I thought Robinson might come cheap, and the fact that he was released means he will not affect our comp equation next year. Signing Robinson and trading for Revis are completely different topics. A 2nd round pick could emerge as a longterm high-impact starter, which would mean much more than a very good player contributing for one year, right after a major injury, IMO.

Huh? No, good teams do not just "draft their own Revis." That's why he's bar none the best in the league (when healthy, obviously). So it doesn't make sense to sign Brent Grimes because Grimes isn't anywhere near Revis' level.

The idea is that we go with the sure shot. Not draft or sign someone that we hope will fill a pressing need for us.
Originally posted by baltien:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
If we are going with an injured guy, I'd rather try to sign Grimes longterm. Good teams draft their own Revis, they don't thro away draft picks for 1 year. We have a lot of picks this year, but we certainly won't have this many picks every year. We need constantly improving depth that can take over starting positions when our success makes it impossible for us to hang onto some of our own guys. I thought Robinson might come cheap, and the fact that he was released means he will not affect our comp equation next year. Signing Robinson and trading for Revis are completely different topics. A 2nd round pick could emerge as a longterm high-impact starter, which would mean much more than a very good player contributing for one year, right after a major injury, IMO.

Huh? No, good teams do not just "draft their own Revis." That's why he's bar none the best in the league (when healthy, obviously). So it doesn't make sense to sign Brent Grimes because Grimes isn't anywhere near Revis' level.

The idea is that we go with the sure shot. Not draft or sign someone that we hope will fill a pressing need for us.

There is no sure shot. Two years ago, Nnamdi was the 2nd best CB in the league, and he pulled down a crazy contract, only to underrperform. Revis is great, but he is also hurt, and you can't expect an Adrian Peterson comeback for everyone. We don't know if he will be the same or somewhat diminished, but we DO know that he will be looking for that, "Straight cash, Homie," as soon as his contract is up. I would prefer Grimes, because we could presumably get him for multiple years, so a down recovery year would not burn us as badly as it would in a trade to rent Revis. I would like a cheap Robinson contract as well, because there is nothing but financial risk involved, and he is still a good cover guy that plays physically versus the run and the pass.

BTW, wasn't Revis a 2nd round pick? Someone drafted him, right? And everyone passed on him first, IIRC.
[ Edited by WRATHman44 on Mar 1, 2013 at 3:32 PM ]
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
There is no sure shot. Two years ago, Nnamdi was the 2nd best CB in the league, and he pulled down a crazy contract, only to overperform. Revis is great, but he is also hurt, and you can't expect an Adrian Peterson comeback for everyone. We don't know if he will be the same or somewhat diminished, but we DO know that he will be looking for that, "Straight cash, Homie," as soon as his contract is up. I would prefer Grimes, because we could presumably get him for multiple years, so a down recovery year would not burn us as badly as it would in a trade to rent Revis. I would like a cheap Robinson contract as well, because there is nothing but financial risk involved, and he is still a good cover guy that plays physically versus the run and the pass.

You're missing the point entirely. I'm well aware that Revis is coming off major surgery. I said as much in the first post you responded to.

I also said that if we're going to gamble on a CB it may as well be for not only the best one available, but the best in the league.

If he comes in, plays well and we can extend him, great. If not, he walks with his salary (~$10 mil) with no further cap ramifications. Signing CB's that aren't even upgrades over what we already have doesn't make sense on any level.

Revis, and to a far lesser extent, Cromartie are the only corners that are worth a damn on the market. Anyone else and we may as well just go with the guys currently on the roster.
[ Edited by baltien on Mar 1, 2013 at 3:43 PM ]
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
If we are going with an injured guy, I'd rather try to sign Grimes longterm. Good teams draft their own Revis, they don't thro away draft picks for 1 year. We have a lot of picks this year, but we certainly won't have this many picks every year. We need constantly improving depth that can take over starting positions when our success makes it impossible for us to hang onto some of our own guys. I thought Robinson might come cheap, and the fact that he was released means he will not affect our comp equation next year. Signing Robinson and trading for Revis are completely different topics. A 2nd round pick could emerge as a longterm high-impact starter, which would mean much more than a very good player contributing for one year, right after a major injury, IMO.

i understand your point of the 2nd possibly being a star. but what i have said is, if they get him for their 2nd rd pick and let him walk at the end of the year that sucks. but then he is likely to get a big contract and start on his new team, and with that we would likely get a 3rd round comp pick or maybe a 4th. so we would be getting a 1 year rental for essentially a 3rd to 5th round pick.

also because we have so many picks in this draft, that is way too many players that will never make this team. we could even trade a 3rd & 4th/5th for him. i am not saying this is what it would take, i am saying this is what i would be happy with giving up. the jets get a pick now in a draft they need it, and the niners get a great player long term or a pick in a later draft.


i would also like to see them bring in asomugha if he comes in at a reasonable contract. i don't think they will bring all in, but 1 of the big 4 would be nice(but revis only making 6-7mil is so nice)
Originally posted by jdt84_2:
i understand your point of the 2nd possibly being a star. but what i have said is, if they get him for their 2nd rd pick and let him walk at the end of the year that sucks. but then he is likely to get a big contract and start on his new team, and with that we would likely get a 3rd round comp pick or maybe a 4th. so we would be getting a 1 year rental for essentially a 3rd to 5th round pick.

also because we have so many picks in this draft, that is way too many players that will never make this team. we could even trade a 3rd & 4th/5th for him. i am not saying this is what it would take, i am saying this is what i would be happy with giving up. the jets get a pick now in a draft they need it, and the niners get a great player long term or a pick in a later draft.


i would also like to see them bring in asomugha if he comes in at a reasonable contract. i don't think they will bring all in, but 1 of the big 4 would be nice(but revis only making 6-7mil is so nice)

ESPN is asking about our 1 and KC's 2 being the appropriate value for Revis. Just pissed me right off. If we could get him for a 3 and a 5, that's interesting, especially if we gain any insight into his rehab.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
ESPN is asking about our 1 and KC's 2 being the appropriate value for Revis. Just pissed me right off. If we could get him for a 3 and a 5, that's interesting, especially if we gain any insight into his rehab.

Jets wish. I want Revis, but not at that price.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
There is no sure shot. Two years ago, Nnamdi was the 2nd best CB in the league, and he pulled down a crazy contract, only to underrperform. Revis is great, but he is also hurt, and you can't expect an Adrian Peterson comeback for everyone. We don't know if he will be the same or somewhat diminished, but we DO know that he will be looking for that, "Straight cash, Homie," as soon as his contract is up. I would prefer Grimes, because we could presumably get him for multiple years, so a down recovery year would not burn us as badly as it would in a trade to rent Revis. I would like a cheap Robinson contract as well, because there is nothing but financial risk involved, and he is still a good cover guy that plays physically versus the run and the pass.

BTW, wasn't Revis a 2nd round pick? Someone drafted him, right? And everyone passed on him first, IIRC.
The Jets moved up in the draft to get Revis at 14. There was a lot of talent in that 2007 draft. Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, Marshawn Lynch, and Joe Thomas among others. When Revis "fell" to 14, they traded their 1st, 2nd, and 5th (they drafted 25 overall), for Carolina's 1st and 6th.

Looking back on it, that really was a loaded draft. Carolina moved down 11 spots and got Jon Beason.
On the subject of the Falcons releasing John Abraham, this means there is possibly another team that could be drafting for defensive line ahead of us in the draft.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
There is no sure shot. Two years ago, Nnamdi was the 2nd best CB in the league, and he pulled down a crazy contract, only to underrperform. Revis is great, but he is also hurt, and you can't expect an Adrian Peterson comeback for everyone. We don't know if he will be the same or somewhat diminished, but we DO know that he will be looking for that, "Straight cash, Homie," as soon as his contract is up. I would prefer Grimes, because we could presumably get him for multiple years, so a down recovery year would not burn us as badly as it would in a trade to rent Revis. I would like a cheap Robinson contract as well, because there is nothing but financial risk involved, and he is still a good cover guy that plays physically versus the run and the pass.

BTW, wasn't Revis a 2nd round pick? Someone drafted him, right? And everyone passed on him first, IIRC.
The Jets moved up in the draft to get Revis at 14. There was a lot of talent in that 2007 draft. Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, Marshawn Lynch, and Joe Thomas among others. When Revis "fell" to 14, they traded their 1st, 2nd, and 5th (they drafted 25 overall), for Carolina's 1st and 6th.

Looking back on it, that really was a loaded draft. Carolina moved down 11 spots and got Jon Beason.

Well, sh!t. Wonder who the hell I was thinking of then.

Anyway, 14 is attainable by any team that really wants it, especially a team with the 49ers draft capital. For a stacked draft, several bums still got picked ahead of him (Okoye, Brown, Ginn, Carriker). If we can't get him for a mid round pick or two and extend him to a ~ $10million or less/year deal, I don't want him. If the draft is always going to involve a small element of gambling, then you need more and better chips. There are big, long, fast CBs with hands and good feet in this draft. We need or FO to get the right one. This too talented of a team to jeopardize the future for one FA, IMO.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Well, sh!t. Wonder who the hell I was thinking of then.

Anyway, 14 is attainable by any team that really wants it, especially a team with the 49ers draft capital. For a stacked draft, several bums still got picked ahead of him (Okoye, Brown, Ginn, Carriker). If we can't get him for a mid round pick or two and extend him to a ~ $10million or less/year deal, I don't want him. If the draft is always going to involve a small element of gambling, then you need more and better chips. There are big, long, fast CBs with hands and good feet in this draft. We need or FO to get the right one. This too talented of a team to jeopardize the future for one FA, IMO.
It is definitely attainable. But for this draft, I'm not sure if it's worth it to move up. Because there is so much good talent available in the middle rounds, I think I'd rather we move to get another pick in the 2nd or 3rd round. We could conceivably hit on 4-6 future starters at DE, NT, CB, WR, and S with our 1st through 3rd round picks. Spending those extra picks to move up would land us a quality corner, but also put us in a position where the rest of our picks (because they would be low) would probably be nothing more than key backups. Your idea is fine, but I think you only move up in the 1st round where there is a lot of blue chip talent available and 2013 doesn't appear to be one of those drafts.
I want Brent Grimes if we go after a vet CB in the offseason. The only thing is that I want a "healthy" Grimes. The dude can ball when he is healthy.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
It is definitely attainable. But for this draft, I'm not sure if it's worth it to move up. Because there is so much good talent available in the middle rounds, I think I'd rather we move to get another pick in the 2nd or 3rd round. We could conceivably hit on 4-6 future starters at DE, NT, CB, WR, and S with our 1st through 3rd round picks. Spending those extra picks to move up would land us a quality corner, but also put us in a position where the rest of our picks (because they would be low) would probably be nothing more than key backups. Your idea is fine, but I think you only move up in the 1st round where there is a lot of blue chip talent available and 2013 doesn't appear to be one of those drafts.

To be clear, I was merely reinforcing that a team could conceivably draft their own Revis, I was not advocating selling the draft to do so. I think we would be better served to follow the course you suggest, partially because of the impressive depth in this draft, but also because their doesn't seem to be a big difference between the top and middle of this draft. None of the "top ten" guys seem like can't miss picks to me. I'd rather have more picks, so we aren't burned as badly by the inevitable miss (no one, not even St. Baalke, hits on every pick).

The best corner wouldnt help as much as a tall RZ threat, a playmaking safety or two, interior and exterior DL, and a good corner. Flesh out the rest of the draft with a kicker, ILB to replace Grant, and trade all of the remaining non-comp picks back into the next draft at a one-round increase. I think rounds 2-3 are money, that's where my interest in Robinson originated. He's a physical guy (albiet a little undersized), and his release means he would not factor into our compensatory pick equation next year.

However, given the choice between one year of Revis (or several years at a $14-16million/year pop) or a reasonable contract with Grimes, I'd choose Grimes. I think he is top 5-10 when healthy, and he wouldn't cost picks. Ideally, we'd solidify the roster with mid-level FA bargains (Robinson) and build through the draft, especially a draft that seems particularly deep in CB and Safety (not to mention DL and tall TEs: it's good to be us!)
We could use the depth...especially if Baalke feels Goldson's asking for too much and lets him walk. One of the of the existing options is Culliver...he played FS his sophomore and junior seasons for Spurrier at SC. Robinson could come in handy in that situation.
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