Kick off returns- NFL records.

Originally posted by mkmasn:
It's free yardage regardless of outcome until he crosses out of the end zone into the field of play. They're not starting their possession until they cross out of the end zone into the field of play -- if they were to down the ball, fair catch, run out of the back of the end zone, or be tackled, they get the ball at the 20.

OP is correct. You can't count those yards. Since they do, a touchback should only count for 20 yards, not starting at the 20. If the guy gets tackled in the back of the end zone, ball should be placed at the 9 yard line for a net of 20 yards, not 29 yards.

Touchbacks also scratch away 20 yards of the net yardage on kickoffs and punts. SO its not that crazy.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
THEY HELD MILLER FOR 7 f**kING SECONDS!!!

No they didn't.

Truth unfortunately.

The Ravens did something in our SB that I have never seen any team do. They researched and exploited the rulebook. The rule on a double block on a kick return is that there is no holding unless the player being blocked goes to the ground. Thats why you kept seeing Miller's feet coming up off the ground while they were blocking him. They were making sure he didn't go to the ground.

Regardless there was a separate block in the back on that play so it still should have been called back anyway, but the Miller block was legal believe it or not.

I'm going with NOT.


Per NFL Rulebook:
When a defensive player is held by an offensive player during the following situations, offensive holding will
not be called:
(h) if the action is part of a double-team block in close-line play.
Exception: Holding will be called if the opponent is pulled to the ground by one or both of the blockers
Supplemental note: Close-line play is that which occurs in an area extending laterally to the position originally occupied by
the offensive tackles and longitudinally three yards on either side of each line of scrimmage.



I read these rules to mean that you cannot hold as part as double team block as long as both of the following criteria are met:
a) The defender does not go to the ground - Check
b) The block occurs in an area extending as wide as the position originally occupied by the offensive tackles and as deep as 3 yards in front of or behind the line of scrimmage. - No check. It was a kick return. There was no line of scrimmage or offensive tackles. No close line play. It was a hold.

Sorry if this was already flushed out in another thread, but will someone please explain why I am wrong? The rule seems pretty clear to me.

Originally posted by 9erfan4life:

Originally posted by mkmasn:

Originally posted by 9erfan4life:

Originally posted by mkmasn:

Originally posted by SealTeam6:
One thing I was scratching my head over during the run back was the 108 yards. Why is that. There is no other play in football where yards made in the end zone count towards a record or stats. If gore goes in untouched an runs out the back of the end zone, why aren't they tacking on an extra ten yards if the end zone matters

Originally posted by boast:
it counts as yardage because that's where the possession starts. in your Gore example, the distance from the line of scrimmage to the end zone goal line is all that counts. that's because the instant the ball crosses the goal line, it's a touchdown and the play is over.

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Turnovers in the endzones are also Ed Reed holds the record of a 107 yard int return, Longest fumble return shared by Jack Tatum & Aeneas Williams of 104 yards, and the longest return of a blocked/missed field goal by Antonio Cromartie of 109 yards.

It's free yardage regardless of outcome until he crosses out of the end zone into the field of play. They're not starting their possession until they cross out of the end zone into the field of play -- if they were to down the ball, fair catch, run out of the back of the end zone, or be tackled, they get the ball at the 20.

OP is correct. You can't count those yards. Since they do, a touchback should only count for 20 yards, not starting at the 20. If the guy gets tackled in the back of the end zone, ball should be placed at the 9 yard line for a net of 20 yards, not 29 yards.

not true
possession starts when the player controls the ball

it's just the rules are different for endzone plays

next you're gonna tell us that every field goal kicked after 1973 should be 10 yards shorter in the stat book

lol

That makes no sense. The ball travels those yards before crossing through the goal posts. A field goal is scored by a different, defined system.

The end zone is comprised off free yards: A TD pass from the 10 is always only a 10 yard pass. Yardage is not calculated after crossing the goal line. A kickoff downed in the end zone is returned for no yards, but regardless of where in the end zone it is downed, the ball is placed at the 20. Those yards don't count there, why should they count during a return or a kick into the end zone? If there are only 100 yards of metered playing field, you can't add magic yardage to invent records.

Also, I don't think of special teams as the beginning of your possession... It's more of an intermediary between the end of one team's possession and the start of the other team's possession...

it makes all the sense in the world based on the rules of the game

a kicked ball is defined by different rules as you stated

a passed ball caught inside the endzone is dead at the point of player possession
(receiving possession is also different inside the endzone) as apposed to the field of play
a rushed ball is dead when it touches the goal line

a punted ball is dead when it touches the goal line

kickoffs and field goals
the ball is live when it enters the endzone

kick returns and missed field goal returns are yards of gain from the possession the player takes inside the endzone

also

Intercepted passes inside the endzone are treated the same as kick returns
a player can down the ball for a touchback or return the ball into the field of play with the added yardage from spot of possession

you're thinking too much

I understand the rules, but they are inconsistent and make no sense. That's the point.

Punt = dead ball in the end zone. Kickoff, FG return = not a dead ball in the end zone. Both kicks... different rules. Makes no sense.

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Touchbacks also scratch away 20 yards of the net yardage on kickoffs and punts. SO its not that crazy.

20 yards, not 24, not 23, not 29... 20. If the kick is 6 yards deep in the end zone and kneeled down, 20 yards get subtracted from the kick, not 26. Yet the ball is placed 26 yards from where it was caught.

See? The rule isn't even consistent from one kickoff to the next.