Jamal Lewis, Dorsey Levels sue NFL over concussions

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

So let me get this straight, all of you guys critizing the lawsuits believe employers should be able to lie and misinform employees about health risks, so long as the job has an inherent level of danger in it?

And if the employee retires and begins to develop lingering serious health side effects, your response is f**k them? Without even knowing about the facts involved....What a wonderful humane world we live in.

really? this is not some hidden risk that is being withheld. It's beyond obvious that football players get hit in the head. Alot. If they were too stupid to realize this when they decided to declare for the draft, all they had to do was to consult a doctor. But guess what, they didn't care. They wanted to get paid. And now they want go get paid yet again.

So you think anyone who says there isn't long term health risk to getting hit in the head is stupid?

So what do you think of the NFL telling players there is no long term health risk to getting hit on the head? Excusable to make such a stupid comment?

getting hit in the head once? Maybe not. Getting hit in the head repeatedly? It doesn't take a neurologist to know that could pose a long-term health risk. If the NFL told them that, then well they effed up and they are going to have to pay. Let me take that back.........we're going to have to pay.

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
So let me get this straight, all of you guys critizing the lawsuits believe employers should be able to lie and misinform employees about health risks, so long as the job has an inherent level of danger in it?

And if the employee retires and begins to develop lingering serious health side effects, your response is f**k them? Without even knowing about the facts involved....What a wonderful humane world we live in.

really? this is not some hidden risk that is being withheld. It's beyond obvious that football players get hit in the head. Alot. If they were too stupid to realize this when they decided to declare for the draft, all they had to do was to consult a doctor. But guess what, they didn't care. They wanted to get paid. And now they want go get paid yet again.

So you think anyone who says there isn't long term health risk to getting hit in the head is stupid?

So what do you think of the NFL telling players there is no long term health risk to getting hit on the head? Excusable to make such a stupid comment?

getting hit in the head once? Maybe not. Getting hit in the head repeatedly? It doesn't take a neurologist to know that could pose a long-term health risk. If the NFL told them that, then well they effed up and they are going to have to pay. Let me take that back.........we're going to have to pay.

And thats my point. I'm not on either side of this case, my first post is lets wait till the facts come out and even if the NFL is at fault, I still think there are major legal hurdles (as I cited to in my previous post).

This is what the NFL officially said in 2004:
"Court papers detail how the committee published a paper in the October 2004 edition of Neurosurgery, which asserted that its research found no risk of repeated concussions in players with previous concussions, and that there was no "7- to 10-day window of increased susceptibility to sustaining another concussion."

Both of those conclusions are now considered wrong, and players are alleging the NFL intentionally suprressed or ignored evidence to the contrary but never told players. Instead the NFL repeatedly told players not to worry about long term risks after repeated concussions.

Thats what neurologists hired by the NFL found in their report. And that is the information the NFL had been telling players. The NFL had been telling players for decades that there was no risk, and there turns out there is risk.

What I just said isn't even whats being disputed, there isn't a dispute that the NFL gave bad advice to players. The dispute instead surrounds whether the NFL was aware of the risk. In your own words, it would be stupid not to see the risk. So I ask you, why did the NFL hire neurologists to say something that you think is stupid??

I'll tell you why, the NFL wants its star players on the field to get fans in the stadium. Is it really that hard to see that the NFL had a possible agenda to conceal the concussion risk and give bad advice that players relied on?

Edit: And I don't think players are blameless in this. If I'm the defense attorney questions #1 would be "Have you ever played hurt before" #2 "Did you take pride in being a tough player that played through pain" #3 "Did you ever ignore pain to keep playing." Players are going to answer yes to all three and it will do some severe damage to their case. The players have to prove if they were given different information, the harm done to them would be mitigated.

This is easy in asbestos cases, no one in their right mind would work with asbestos without protection if they knew the risks. But athletes on the other hand engage in risk everyday and even take pride in it. Players want to play through pain if they can.

And as far as players jsut filing lawsuits out of greed, I dunno if they are or if they are not. But again, I find the impulse of people to jump to cynical conclusions without even looking into the issue to be pretty lame.

A lot of retired players didn't make the multi-million dollar deals we hear about now. And its not very easy to make smart decisions with money if your brain has been turned into a pile of mush to the point you can't even remember your address at times.

If you ever followed the whole Mackey story, you'd understand that a lot of these players are looking for funding for long term medical care. If you think its fun living with severe neurological issues because there is money in your pocket....well I think you have neurological issues of your own.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

So let me get this straight, all of you guys critizing the lawsuits believe employers should be able to lie and misinform employees about health risks, so long as the job has an inherent level of danger in it?

And if the employee retires and begins to develop lingering serious health side effects, your response is f**k them? Without even knowing about the facts involved....What a wonderful humane world we live in.

really? this is not some hidden risk that is being withheld. It's beyond obvious that football players get hit in the head. Alot. If they were too stupid to realize this when they decided to declare for the draft, all they had to do was to consult a doctor. But guess what, they didn't care. They wanted to get paid. And now they want go get paid yet again.

So you think anyone who says there isn't long term health risk to getting hit in the head is stupid?

So what do you think of the NFL telling players there is no long term health risk to getting hit on the head? Excusable to make such a stupid comment?

getting hit in the head once? Maybe not. Getting hit in the head repeatedly? It doesn't take a neurologist to know that could pose a long-term health risk. If the NFL told them that, then well they effed up and they are going to have to pay. Let me take that back.........we're going to have to pay.

And thats my point. I'm not on either side of this case, my first post is lets wait till the facts come out and even if the NFL is at fault, I still think there are major legal hurdles (as I cited to in my previous post).

This is what the NFL officially said in 2004:
"Court papers detail how the committee published a paper in the October 2004 edition of Neurosurgery, which asserted that its research found no risk of repeated concussions in players with previous concussions, and that there was no "7- to 10-day window of increased susceptibility to sustaining another concussion."

Both of those conclusions are now considered wrong, and players are alleging the NFL intentionally suprressed or ignored evidence to the contrary but never told players. Instead the NFL repeatedly told players not to worry about long term risks after repeated concussions.

Thats what neurologists hired by the NFL found in their report. And that is the information the NFL had been telling players. The NFL had been telling players for decades that there was no risk, and there turns out there is risk.

What I just said isn't even whats being disputed, there isn't a dispute that the NFL gave bad advice to players. The dispute instead surrounds whether the NFL was aware of the risk. In your own words, it would be stupid not to see the risk. So I ask you, why did the NFL hire neurologists to say something that you think is stupid??

I'll tell you why, the NFL wants its star players on the field to get fans in the stadium. Is it really that hard to see that the NFL had a possible agenda to conceal the concussion risk and give bad advice that players relied on?

Edit: And I don't think players are blameless in this. If I'm the defense attorney questions #1 would be "Have you ever played hurt before" #2 "Did you take pride in being a tough player that played through pain" #3 "Did you ever ignore pain to keep playing." Players are going to answer yes to all three and it will do some severe damage to their case. The players have to prove if they were given different information, the harm done to them would be mitigated.

This is easy in asbestos cases, no one in their right mind would work with asbestos without protection if they knew the risks. But athletes on the other hand engage in risk everyday and even take pride in it. Players want to play through pain if they can.

those neurologists hired by the NFL should be held accountable along with the league then, yes?

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

And as far as players jsut filing lawsuits out of greed, I dunno if they are or if they are not. But again, I find the impulse of people to jump to cynical conclusions without even looking into the issue to be pretty lame.

A lot of retired players didn't make the multi-million dollar deals we hear about now. And its not very easy to make smart decisions with money if your brain has been turned into a pile of mush to the point you can't even remember your address at times.

If you ever followed the whole Mackey story, you'd understand that a lot of these players are looking for funding for long term medical care. If you think its fun living with severe neurological issues because there is money in your pocket....well I think you have neurological issues of your own.

and my point is......use your brain while it is still intact. Getting hit in the head=possible long term issues. If the NFL told you to jump off a bridge so they can make a buck, would you do it? When you dangle millions in front of someone, they tend to ignore risks, even when common sense tells them different. It's human nature.

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
those neurologists hired by the NFL should be held accountable along with the league then, yes?

That would be an extremely tough legal case. The attorneys will go for the "low hanging fruit" ( lawyer speak for easiest defendant with money). The NFL is being targetted because they are so powerful and run a monopoly, and generally the more powerful you are the more responsible you are (not really a legal theory, but thats usually how it works out).

Personally I think these are fascinating legal cases that aren't open and shut as I think people are writing them off as. I think there are very legimitate arguements on both sides.

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
And as far as players jsut filing lawsuits out of greed, I dunno if they are or if they are not. But again, I find the impulse of people to jump to cynical conclusions without even looking into the issue to be pretty lame.

A lot of retired players didn't make the multi-million dollar deals we hear about now. And its not very easy to make smart decisions with money if your brain has been turned into a pile of mush to the point you can't even remember your address at times.

If you ever followed the whole Mackey story, you'd understand that a lot of these players are looking for funding for long term medical care. If you think its fun living with severe neurological issues because there is money in your pocket....well I think you have neurological issues of your own.

and my point is......use your brain while it is still intact. Getting hit in the head=possible long term issues. If the NFL told you to jump off a bridge so they can make a buck, would you do it? When you dangle millions in front of someone, they tend to ignore risks, even when common sense tells them different. It's human nature.

I completely agree with you, and its the main legal defense that will be raised.

I just don't think it is a case without merit for the players to bring. I think there are some legal issues that will be heavily debated and deserve to be debated.

Excellent posts, SunDevilNiner. I've been disgusted with the NFL for a long time over this. Whether or not the players can prove legal liability, that the NFL intentionally misled them, the fact is they were misled, their competitive spirit to play hurt and take crazy risks was exploited. The NFL didn't institute proper safety rules and I don't buy for a second that they were unaware of the risks. I believe those neurologists were bought off just like the Tobacco industry bought off scientists to say smoking doesn't cause cancer. Shame on them, and good luck to the players.

NFL players getting paid millions... getting girls/vacations more than i could ever dream of having... We might as well pay Police officers/Fire Fighters more than NFL athletes since they are protecting your lives in a way and sacrificing there own to keep you safe... And they get paid no were near what NFL players do, i dont feel sorry for them, i mean i do feel sorry for them but i dont if you catch my drift.

Soccer is more dangerous