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Manning Greatest of all time by Ross Tucker

Ross Tucker

His email like is under his name...

I thought you guys might want to comment on his articel...
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,327
Manning is an outstanding QB, but the writer even said in the article that Montana played in a different era of football.

If he played in a different era of football in terms of rules and economics, then why the f**k even compare the two in the first place?

QB comparisons should really be based on the decade they've played. Otherwise, it's just useless debate as bias comes into play for forming opinions.
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,368
I can't believe even after the loss, on the radio show I was listening to on the drive home after the game they were calling Manning the greatest of all time. He is 9-9 as a playoff starter, give me a break!
Not close, dude has 9 playoff losses and has played with guys like Wayne, Clark, Faulk, Harrison, James, coached by Dungy, etc. He's really good when he's on fire but eventually he's going to f**k up and throw a pick or an incomplete pass. Remember 07 vs the Chargers? Threw the ball too high for Clark. He's had elite talent and only won 1 superbowl. Joe would've gotten atleast 3 with that.
Personality goes a long way.

Just ask Bradshaw and Namath.


Manning is the best audibler of all time though.
Originally posted by GEEK:
Manning is an outstanding QB, but the writer even said in the article that Montana played in a different era of football.

If he played in a different era of football in terms of rules and economics, then why the f**k even compare the two in the first place?

QB comparisons should really be based on the decade they've played. Otherwise, it's just useless debate as bias comes into play for forming opinions.

I agree with this to a point.

However, I also firmly believe in what Steve Young says about his (and Bill Walsh's) belief about interceptions; it the QB fault. I can understand making the play and you guy drops it or fumbles the ball, but when you throw a pick 6 in the drive that you need to win the game... well you can compare those stats regardless of era.

Montana is still king.
He's definitely the best QB I've ever seen.

The playoff record argument is silly. To compare the level of talent that the Colts have to the level of talent that those Niner teams had is completely disingenuous. Manning was absolutely phenomenal yesterday, but the Saints did a great job of keeping him off of the field for almost two consecutive quarters.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
He's definitely the best QB I've ever seen.

The playoff record argument is silly. To compare the level of talent that the Colts have to the level of talent that those Niner teams had is completely disingenuous. Manning was absolutely phenomenal yesterday, but the Saints did a great job of keeping him off of the field for almost two consecutive quarters.

I agree with this 100%. Manning is NOT to blame for that loss yesterday. He was great as always. The pick, according to a WR as knowledgable as Chris Carter, was the fault of Reggie Wayne. I would put much more blame on the Colts defense that couldnt stop Brees and the Colts HC who played it way too conservative.

I think Manning is the best I have seen as well but he still has to win another SB to have the title GOAT. Championships do matter ultimately and Montana won 4 and deserves that title.
My reply:

Ross...you are dead wrong. Even if Peyton won yesterday...you would still be dead wrong. Joe Montana is the greatest ever, and it isn't close. No conversation, caveat, or argument necessary.

Your stated, "He did, however, play in an era before the advent of free agency and the salary cap. That's not his fault, of course, but it does help explain why he accomplished what he did, benefiting from immensely talented rosters that other teams couldn't raid."

Your statement is fallacious. It implies that Joe had a core of talent that powered the Niners through a brief period of success. What you should have done is taken a look at the rosters of the 49ers for Super Bowls 16, 19, 23, and 24. What you would have found is that the Niners experienced a dramatic amount of turnover in each of these seasons, and that Joe, unlike Tom or Peyton, was absolutely perfect on the games biggest stage. He's thrown 11 TDs against 0 interceptions. He completed 68% of his passes, and has a collective passer rating of 127.8 in the Super Bowl.

The man is a once in a century kind of player. He is the very best Modern Era QB...and it isn't close. To suggest otherwise is utterly ridiculous.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
He's definitely the best QB I've ever seen.

The playoff record argument is silly. To compare the level of talent that the Colts have to the level of talent that those Niner teams had is completely disingenuous. Manning was absolutely phenomenal yesterday, but the Saints did a great job of keeping him off of the field for almost two consecutive quarters.

I don't know, Pete. I will say that Peyton is the best QB in the league, even after yesterday's loss, but he was really ineffective in the 2nd half. His players had some drops...but there were more than a few times where he was late with the football, and a few times that he tried to force a good pass into a really bad spot.

I would also take issue with comparing the Colts to the Niners. The Niners experienced a massive amount of turnover from Super Bowl to Super Bowl...more than most teams of their era. Walsh was constantly looking for newer, better players, and had no qualms bouncing a guy that was falling off. Just look at the rosters from year to year, and you'll see what I mean.

I watched every single Super Bowl, and I remember them all. Joe was head and shoulders above anyone when it mattered

All time, if there was one player that I could pick to lead the most important drive of a season, I'm picking Joe. I firmly believe that about 90% of NFL fans would pick him, too.
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,327
Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
He's definitely the best QB I've ever seen.

The playoff record argument is silly. To compare the level of talent that the Colts have to the level of talent that those Niner teams had is completely disingenuous. Manning was absolutely phenomenal yesterday, but the Saints did a great job of keeping him off of the field for almost two consecutive quarters.

I don't know, Pete. I will say that Peyton is the best QB in the league, even after yesterday's loss, but he was really ineffective in the 2nd half. His players had some drops...but there were more than a few times where he was late with the football, and a few times that he tried to force a good pass into a really bad spot.

I would also take issue with comparing the Colts to the Niners. The Niners experienced a massive amount of turnover from Super Bowl to Super Bowl...more than most teams of their era. Walsh was constantly looking for newer, better players, and had no qualms bouncing a guy that was falling off. Just look at the rosters from year to year, and you'll see what I mean.

I watched every single Super Bowl, and I remember them all. Joe was head and shoulders above anyone when it mattered

All time, if there was one player that I could pick to lead the most important drive of a season, I'm picking Joe. I firmly believe that about 90% of NFL fans would pick him, too.

Considering he has 0 INTs in the Super Bowl.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
He's definitely the best QB I've ever seen.

The playoff record argument is silly. To compare the level of talent that the Colts have to the level of talent that those Niner teams had is completely disingenuous. Manning was absolutely phenomenal yesterday, but the Saints did a great job of keeping him off of the field for almost two consecutive quarters.

Yup. Tell me one key player that the Colts have gotten thru free agency? Gary Brackett and after that it's pretty much crickets. Indy's done a better job than anyone else at finding players that fit their offensive and defensive schemes, but pound for pound they're not as talented as people give them credit for.

Peyton will never be as clutch as Montana and nobody else will for that matter, but if he can rack up 3 Super Bowl wins and rack up every single passing stat known to man than he's made his case. We won't know that until he's finished.
The Saints offered up Peyton Manning a John Candy scenario and he utterly failed. There's no pinning that play on either the WR or QB...the play resulted in disaster and both sides are equally guilty.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
He's definitely the best QB I've ever seen.

The playoff record argument is silly. To compare the level of talent that the Colts have to the level of talent that those Niner teams had is completely disingenuous. Manning was absolutely phenomenal yesterday, but the Saints did a great job of keeping him off of the field for almost two consecutive quarters.

Yup. Tell me one key player that the Colts have gotten thru free agency? Gary Brackett and after that it's pretty much crickets. Indy's done a better job than anyone else at finding players that fit their offensive and defensive schemes, but pound for pound they're not as talented as people give them credit for.

Peyton will never be as clutch as Montana and nobody else will for that matter, but if he can rack up 3 Super Bowl wins and rack up every single passing stat known to man than he's made his case. We won't know that until he's finished.

Record for most wins in the decade.... during the regular season. Great. Good Job. Should say a lot about there talent level, no? Yet all that has only been converted in to 1 Super Bowl ring, where Manning threw more interceptions than he did touchdowns.
Originally posted by Legbreaker:
My reply:

Ross...you are dead wrong. Even if Peyton won yesterday...you would still be dead wrong. Joe Montana is the greatest ever, and it isn't close. No conversation, caveat, or argument necessary.

Your stated, "He did, however, play in an era before the advent of free agency and the salary cap. That's not his fault, of course, but it does help explain why he accomplished what he did, benefiting from immensely talented rosters that other teams couldn't raid."

Your statement is fallacious. It implies that Joe had a core of talent that powered the Niners through a brief period of success. What you should have done is taken a look at the rosters of the 49ers for Super Bowls 16, 19, 23, and 24. What you would have found is that the Niners experienced a dramatic amount of turnover in each of these seasons, and that Joe, unlike Tom or Peyton, was absolutely perfect on the games biggest stage. He's thrown 11 TDs against 0 interceptions. He completed 68% of his passes, and has a collective passer rating of 127.8 in the Super Bowl.

The man is a once in a century kind of player. He is the very best Modern Era QB...and it isn't close. To suggest otherwise is utterly ridiculous.

Finally! Somebody with some wisdom. This is absolutely a great post.

The different era argument is a load of hogwash. Parity? Really?! Is that why the Colts, Patriots, and Steelers have been in the last 8 of 9 Super Bowls? All you've done is trade money for great managers and, if anything, have widened the gap between good and bad even more.

Top that with the fact that the NFL is by far the most popular sport in America and not having your quarterback on the field means you lose money. That leads to rules being created to assist the quarterback (See: Brady, Tom). I'd argue that it's been ripe for the picking for Manning. He just rarely delivers.
[ Edited by Rivers77 on Feb 8, 2010 at 10:35 AM ]