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49ers 2013 Compensatory picks

Comp Picks deal with Value of contract and playing time first. Dorsey would x out Sopoaga, but no way Dahl and Skuta mark out Walker and RJF. Teams can lose same amount and gain same amount and still get net picks.

Below is from the NFL.com link, http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000151670/article/nfl-awards-32-compensatory-draft-picks-to-16-teams
Compensatory free agents are determined by a formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. The formula was developed by the NFL Management Council. Not every free agent lost or signed by a team is covered by this formula.


Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
The value of the contract has a lot to do with it. 49ers signed a bunch of guys on the cheap but lost others who got paid relatively large amounts. Right now I'd say a 3rd for Goldson, a 4th for RJF and a 4th/5th for Walker.

You're forgetting Sopoaga. They've also signed three FAs, so right now Walker, Sop, and RJF would be cancelled out, and they'd just get a comp for Goldson. If Cincy signs Ginn and we don't sign any FAs then we'd likely have two comp picks coming back.

That's not how compensation works. The formula is made up of 3 factors: contract size, playing time and postseason accolades. It has nothing to do with net number of free agent signed.

Net loss and gain is the first factor considered. You're right that all three of our FAs might not be considered (cut before the season, value to low to enter the equation) but losses and gains cancel out based on closest values. AdamTJ13 was doing really good work figuring out the formula for quite some time; don't know if he still is. He could always get the canceling out correct, but missed sometimes on the round values, iirc.

None of the free agent deals we sign players to will approach the deals that Goldson, RJF, and DWalker signed so they won't be cancelled out.
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Comp Picks deal with Value of contract and playing time first. Dorsey would x out Sopoaga, but no way Dahl and Skuta mark out Walker and RJF. Teams can lose same amount and gain same amount and still get net picks.

Below is from the NFL.com link, http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000151670/article/nfl-awards-32-compensatory-draft-picks-to-16-teams
Compensatory free agents are determined by a formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. The formula was developed by the NFL Management Council. Not every free agent lost or signed by a team is covered by this formula.

Bingo!

But since Dorsey signed for less money than Sopoaga, let's say they get equal playing time and neither receive any honors. In that case, wouldn't the 49ers still gain a little bit in the draft compensation formula since Dorsey signed for less than Sopoaga?
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Originally posted by kam_niners1:
I was hoping we'd get a 3rd rounder... maybe iam being a bit greedy

It can always be worse Chargers didn't get a Comp pick for losing Vincent Jackson

will we be in line to get a 3rd next year after Goldson's departure?
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Comp Picks deal with Value of contract and playing time first. Dorsey would x out Sopoaga, but no way Dahl and Skuta mark out Walker and RJF. Teams can lose same amount and gain same amount and still get net picks.

Below is from the NFL.com link, http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000151670/article/nfl-awards-32-compensatory-draft-picks-to-16-teams
Compensatory free agents are determined by a formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. The formula was developed by the NFL Management Council. Not every free agent lost or signed by a team is covered by this formula.

All the data to support what I'm saying is in your link (although I've re-organized it below to make it more convenient to parse out).
(worth reading too for AllTimeGreat and Buck)

1. Yes, if you don't have a net loss of Free Agents but you lose higher quality free agents (based on the formula you're talking about) you can still get one 7th round Comp Pick, which is what happened with the Colts and Giants this year (they have the two last comp picks of the 7th round). The same is true also for if what you gained in quality is dramatically overshadowed by what you lost, which is why the 9ers got the bonus pick at the end of the 7th too.

2. Every other team in the NFL was awarded Comp Picks based on Net Loss minus Net Gain. The formula you guys keep on talking about is to assign the round the pick is awarded in if it has not been cancelled out by a gain.

Look for yourself (all at AB83's link):

Falcons
Lost: 4
Gained: 0
Comp Picks: 4

Ravens:
Lost: 6
Gained: 2
Comp Picks: 4

Bengals:
Lost: 5
Gained: 3
Comp Picks: 2

Lions:
Lost: 2
Gained: 0
Comp Picks: 2

Packers:
Lost: 2
Gained: 1
Comp Picks: 1

Texans:
Lost: 4
Gained: 2
Comp Picks: 2

Colts (see above, gained as many as they lost, but the lost was assigned at higher value than the gained by the formula, so they get 1 pick at the end of the 7th)

Chiefs:
Lost: 4
Gained: 2
Comp Picks: 2

Dolphins:
Lost: 4
Gained: 2
Comp Picks: 2

Giants: (same as Colts above, equal number of lost gained, but loss was higher value due to formula, so they get one comp at the end of the 7th)

Raiders:
Lost: 4
Gained: 3
Comp Picks: 1

Eagles:
Lost: 2
Gained: 1
Comp Picks: 1

Steelers:
Lost: 1
Gained: 0
Comp Picks: 1

9ers:
Lost: 3
Gained: 1
Comp Picks: 2 + 1 at the end of the 7th for having lost better value than they gained according to the formula(if Manningham had played all year they wouldn't have gotten the bonus end of the 7th pick).

Seahawks:
Lost: 4
Gained: 2
Comp Picks: 2

Titans:
Lost: 3
Gained: 0
Comp Picks: 3


You guys can keep incorrectly trying to correct me, but it's right there right in front of you.

AdamTJ13 figured out the comp picks a couple years ago (the end of a process of doing it for ten seasons), and used to post about it regularly on KFFL.

If the 9ers don't gain or lose any more FAs and all the FAs gained and lost make their teams and stay on the roster all year, the 9ers will get one comp pick for Goldson (most likely a 3rd rounder, based on the formula) and one bonus comp pick at the end of the 7th round for the other losses being bigger than the other gains (based on the formula).

[ Edited by PopeyeJonesing on Mar 19, 2013 at 3:23 PM ]
Also, just for clarification:

They use the formula to assign a value to each loss and each gain, and then cancel out the losses and gains based on proximate values.

So if the 9ers lose someone assigned a third round value and someone assigned a fifth round value, but gain someone assigned a 6th round value, the 6th rounder gained is canceled out with the fifth rounder lost, and the team gets a 3rd round comp pick.

If the 9ers lose two 3rd round value players and get a 6th round valued player, then you get one of the cases where the team would get the 3rd round comp pick, and then a bonus comp pick at the end of the 7th round.

FWIW I don't know what the standards are to enter into the equation, although IIRC AdamJT13 did this work. (Example: I don't know if Marlon Moore counts in the formula or not, but it's pretty clear that Net Loss - Net Gain is how the number of picks is awarded, and then the formula you guys are talking about is how they assign value and what gets cancelled out and what's left).
Originally posted by buck:
I wish I could blame my computer's operating system; unfortunately, it is my personal operating system that screwed up.

Oh, well. Good news is good news.

Just drop the "computer's" and leave "operating system" to be interpreted...that's what I do anyway! Good news indeed!
Man, the Raven's are going to get like 10 comp picks next year lol
I think the Maximum number of Comp picks any one team can get is 4.....
^^^^ Yep.

Right now they've signed Canty and Spears, and lost Ellerbe, Williams and Kruger to FA. When Reed signs somewhere else they'll get another comp pick, and another one on top of that if McKinnie leaves, assuming they don't sign anyone else (and all pretty high, I'd have to guess).