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We will not be drafting a NT high

I will go on record and say no to NT but a DT replacing J.Smith is more likely, but it will be with our 2/3 picks not our first. I think first selection will be offense. Allen, Hopkins, Eifert or even moving up for Austin or Patterson
Originally posted by smithc28:
I will go on record and say no to NT but a DT replacing J.Smith is more likely, but it will be with our 2/3 picks not our first. I think first selection will be offense. Allen, Hopkins, Eifert or even moving up for Austin or Patterson

Why "replace" Justin this year? If healthy, Justin will play at least 90% of the defensive plays. No to DEs.
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Originally posted by smithc28:
I will go on record and say no to NT but a DT replacing J.Smith is more likely, but it will be with our 2/3 picks not our first. I think first selection will be offense. Allen, Hopkins, Eifert or even moving up for Austin or Patterson

Why "replace" Justin this year? If healthy, Justin will play at least 90% of the defensive plays. No to DEs.

We need a rotation and depth there so he is not forced to be on the feild every snap even durring garbage time, but yea, Cowboy will be back to his old form just fine.

Although i would be fine with taking a DE, its not really a necessity like some make it out to be. If there is a guy there they like, fine, but its nt a huge need. Im much more conserned with finding a capable DT.
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Why "replace" Justin this year? If healthy, Justin will play at least 90% of the defensive plays. No to DEs.


He's 34 and his contract expires this year.
The only thing that bothers me about NOT getting a NT high is 1- Williams wasnt a factor at all, so just because we resigned him doesnt mean he's annoited to be any good, heck he couldnt beat out anybody we had last 2 yrs. 2- Dorsey returning to LSU/pre draft/pre-KC form is not a given !!, we should still take a guy like essie Williams at either #31 or #34, as he can slide to DE too..
For yrs of ineptitude, we kidded ourselves by saying, "Oh, we can get a good OG in the 3rd or 4th rd." Or the F.O. said, " ah, we can always get a DL in the mid 3rd or 4th rds and coach them up as starters." Well, for 9 yrs that didn't work. It won't work now. If we need 2 DLs, then we should draft guys who are bona fide starters, not development players or projects. We need to DLs to start right now, so we should be drafting 2 DL starters. Maybe the time has come when the 4-3 ought to be looked at again. Heck, we basically have our front 3 AND Aldon with his hand in the dirt most of the time anyway. Putting the entire load on Justin ended up with injury and being wiped out as playoffs rolled around. Suddenly Coach H and fangio realize, "jeez, maybe we should get some help to lighten justin's load. " No kidding. But please don't tell me that a 3rd or 4th rd project can be molded into a starter. It just doesn't happen that way when we need 2 DL starters yesterday.

Maybe we trade up 4-6 spots, possibly more, for that starting FS/CB. But we better be honed in on 2 starters for DL or this season is going to go backwards right quick. baalke can trade up mostly into 2nd rd, and also move up enough for a starting CB. Anybody thinking about TE or Tavon instead of DLs and a S/CB is kidding himself.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Why "replace" Justin this year? If healthy, Justin will play at least 90% of the defensive plays. No to DEs.


He's 34 and his contract expires this year.
Then the need won't occur until next year.
BPA all day 'ery day. We are set up to have exactly one need, Free Safety and in a class this deep there is no need to get one in the first round. We have the luxury of going after the cream of the crop with no immediate holes to fill and I think anyone who is acting like they know who we will pick with such unyielding certainty is the one kidding themselves. We are really and truely ready to pounce on anybody who slips down the board farther than their talent would indicate.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
For yrs of ineptitude, we kidded ourselves by saying, "Oh, we can get a good OG in the 3rd or 4th rd." Or the F.O. said, " ah, we can always get a DL in the mid 3rd or 4th rds and coach them up as starters." Well, for 9 yrs that didn't work. It won't work now. If we need 2 DLs, then we should draft guys who are bona fide starters, not development players or projects. We need to DLs to start right now, so we should be drafting 2 DL starters. Maybe the time has come when the 4-3 ought to be looked at again. Heck, we basically have our front 3 AND Aldon with his hand in the dirt most of the time anyway. Putting the entire load on Justin ended up with injury and being wiped out as playoffs rolled around. Suddenly Coach H and fangio realize, "jeez, maybe we should get some help to lighten justin's load. " No kidding. But please don't tell me that a 3rd or 4th rd project can be molded into a starter. It just doesn't happen that way when we need 2 DL starters yesterday.

Maybe we trade up 4-6 spots, possibly more, for that starting FS/CB. But we better be honed in on 2 starters for DL or this season is going to go backwards right quick. baalke can trade up mostly into 2nd rd, and also move up enough for a starting CB. Anybody thinking about TE or Tavon instead of DLs and a S/CB is kidding himself.

The guy who starts opposite Justin Smith was a 3rd rounder.



Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
For yrs of ineptitude, we kidded ourselves by saying, "Oh, we can get a good OG in the 3rd or 4th rd." Or the F.O. said, " ah, we can always get a DL in the mid 3rd or 4th rds and coach them up as starters." Well, for 9 yrs that didn't work. It won't work now. If we need 2 DLs, then we should draft guys who are bona fide starters, not development players or projects. We need to DLs to start right now, so we should be drafting 2 DL starters. Maybe the time has come when the 4-3 ought to be looked at again. Heck, we basically have our front 3 AND Aldon with his hand in the dirt most of the time anyway. Putting the entire load on Justin ended up with injury and being wiped out as playoffs rolled around. Suddenly Coach H and fangio realize, "jeez, maybe we should get some help to lighten justin's load. " No kidding. But please don't tell me that a 3rd or 4th rd project can be molded into a starter. It just doesn't happen that way when we need 2 DL starters yesterday.

Maybe we trade up 4-6 spots, possibly more, for that starting FS/CB. But we better be honed in on 2 starters for DL or this season is going to go backwards right quick. baalke can trade up mostly into 2nd rd, and also move up enough for a starting CB. Anybody thinking about TE or Tavon instead of DLs and a S/CB is kidding himself.


What are you talking about? We spent high picks on the line year after year. They just ended up being busts. Kwame Harris, David Baas, Justin Smiley, Chilo Rachel. Those are 1st and 2nd round picks. The only later round pick we relied on was Adam Snyder.
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Then the need won't occur until next year.

That's a pretty short sighted view. God forbid we look 1 year in advance.

You guys overrate the need to draft a nose tackle early. It's an extremely loaded defensive tackle class and there's not a huge market for them. Some of these guys will fall.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Apr 10, 2013 at 12:31 PM ]
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Then the need won't occur until next year.

That's a pretty short sighted view. God forbid we look 1 year in advance.

You guys overrate the need to draft a nose tackle early. It's an extremely loaded defensive tackle class and there's not a huge market for them. Some of these guys will fall.

You could also argue that WR is a bigger need than DL when looking at the future.

Unfortunate those seem to be the worst positions to draft early...
http://www.rantsports.com/blog/2012/02/15/nfl-draft-how-well-each-position-translates-from-college-football-to-the-pros/
The one thing we know about Baalke is that he's not afraid to reach for someone he likes, especially if it's a need.....so if he likes a NT and feels we need more talent there besides two players that have almost zero combined experience playing the 3-4 NT position in an NFL game (Williams and Dorsey), he'll go in that direction. If he feels that a guy like Cyprien or Reed can step in and immediately challenge for the FS spot, he'll grab one of those guys. Same goes with a WR...regardless of need or perceived value, he could easily draft a guy like Quinton Patten in the late first/early 2nd if he/they liked him enough.

But to say what position Baalke WILL or WILL NOT address early on with any level of certainty is a fools game.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
The one thing we know about Baalke is that he's not afraid to reach for someone he likes, especially if it's a need.....so if he likes a NT and feels we need more talent there besides two players that have almost zero combined experience playing the 3-4 NT position in an NFL game (Williams and Dorsey), he'll go in that direction. If he feels that a guy like Cyprien or Reed can step in and immediately challenge for the FS spot, he'll grab one of those guys. Same goes with a WR...regardless of need or perceived value, he could easily draft a guy like Quinton Patten in the late first/early 2nd if he/they liked him enough.

But to say what position Baalke WILL or WILL NOT address early on with any level of certainty is a fools game.

That's a safe way to look at it. I believe there is not a pure NT that is worth taking in the first 2 rounds. Star, Jessie Williams and even John Jenkins are not Pure NT's. They are hybrids that can play a 3-4 DE. If any of them are selected, it will not be to play NT only.
[ Edited by 60sfan on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:43 PM ]
Originally posted by 60sfan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
The one thing we know about Baalke is that he's not afraid to reach for someone he likes, especially if it's a need.....so if he likes a NT and feels we need more talent there besides two players that have almost zero combined experience playing the 3-4 NT position in an NFL game (Williams and Dorsey), he'll go in that direction. If he feels that a guy like Cyprien or Reed can step in and immediately challenge for the FS spot, he'll grab one of those guys. Same goes with a WR...regardless of need or perceived value, he could easily draft a guy like Quinton Patten in the late first/early 2nd if he/they liked him enough.

But to say what position Baalke WILL or WILL NOT address early on with any level of certainty is a fools game.

That's a safe way to look at it. I believe there is not a pure NT that is worth taking in the first 2 rounds. Star, Jessie Williams and even John Jenkins are not Pure NT's. They are hybrids that can play a 3-4 DE. If any of them are selected, it will not be to play NT only.

It's not safe, it's just the truth. I can't think of too many people who had Aldon Smith #7 overall to us, or AJ Jenkins in the late first. Baalke goes after the guys he wants regardless of perceived value, that's been his track record so far. And yes, it's not likely we select someone to just play a pure NT role because we're not a pure 3-4 team. It stands to reason that we would need someone with the ability to play inside in different fronts, and even someone to play the 5 technique when called for. That's the nature of their scheme.