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MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
It might change his mind on Aldon over Watt but it certainly wouldnt change anyones mind (other than yours perhaps) that Aldon and Kaep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else from your 2011 class.

Why dont you just admit that Baalke's 2011 draft was superior to yours. It isnt that hard to do.

He can't.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
It might change his mind on Aldon over Watt but it certainly wouldnt change anyones mind (other than yours perhaps) that Aldon and Kaep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else from your 2011 class.

Why dont you just admit that Baalke's 2011 draft was superior to yours. It isnt that hard to do.

Have to wait and see. Depends on the trajectory of Watt, Smith and CK. if Watt becomes the GOAT for DL ( way to early to project, but he just had the greatest single year of any DL), then you have to compare how Smith and CK develop their game, if Watt was an average to good player, it would be easy to concede. In that he has no peer amongst 34 DE, unlike peers that both Smith and CK possess, the value of what he creates for a team is huge,

In other words, compare Watt with the next best 34DE. Then, compare CK with Wilson, RGIii, Luck, Rodgers, manning, Brees, Brady, Ben, etc. This doesn't discount the talent of CK at all. It just shows a team is more likely to find a guy that fits into this group than Watt and any other 34 DE. The same applies to Smith who has a peer in Miller, someone similar in Ware, Wake, Matthews.

At this point, Watt is the only transcendent player of the three based on on the field performance and in comparison to players at the same position. In the link provided, ProFootballFocus stated that Watt had the highest grade ever given to any player at any position. He was the most dominant player in the game and that cannot be minimized.

All of this being said, it is way too early in these careers to decide which class is better. Too much football to be played, too many variables including injuries, knife fights, car crashes, DUI's, etc.

One final note: if there is one player in the league who may match Watt's dedication to the game, it may be CK. That dude loves football and wants to be great. And, we all hope he will.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by ninerlifer:
I love me some Amp V MD debates!

It really wasn't a debate. It was a false accusation that was rectified. Nothing more than that.

You have got to be kidding me?!

It was not a false accusation. I backed my accusation up with evidence. The only thing that changed is that you dropped Gabbert a single spot between the beginning of April and draft day. I hardly think that qualifies as a false accusation. Aside from that, I've made an argument you simply have never responded to.

You continue to ignore the raking you gave Baalke in 2011. You said you were a man who admits when they're wrong, but you aren't. Plain and simple. You condescended others who supported a wait and see approach with Baalke when he let TKO and Franklin go, when he re-signed Ray Mac, when he didn't sign Nnamdi or other high priced CBs and instead waited and signed Rogers for a small deal, and this isn't touching on the draft. So man up and admit you were wrong about Baalke. Or don't. But don't expect people to forget when a guy treats others like crap, then is wrong about nearly everything he predicted, then comes back puffing out his chest about JJ Watt and how he admits when he's wrong. Horse s**t.
A franchise QB is more valuable than the best 3-4 DE in the game, and it's not even close, even if that franchise QB has "peers".

And then when you toss in Aldon Smith, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Bruce Miller, etc. versus Rodney Hudson, Vick Ballard, Marcus Cannon, & Co, and it's an absolutely landslide.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
A franchise QB is more valuable than the best 3-4 DE in the game, and it's not even close, even if that franchise QB has "peers".

And then when you toss in Aldon Smith, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Bruce Miller, etc. versus Rodney Hudson, Vick Ballard, Marcus Cannon, & Co, and it's an absolutely landslide.

This. It simply doesnt matter if there are other great QBS in the league. The Niners did not have a franchise QB and Baalke stole one in the 2nd rd. Jaworski thinks he could be the greatest of all time. Now, I think thats crazy talk this early in his career but you have to admit he knows more about what it takes to be a great QB than anyone in here does.

You can continue to argue that your draft is better but I doubt you would find anyone anywhere to agree with you.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
A franchise QB is more valuable than the best 3-4 DE in the game, and it's not even close, even if that franchise QB has "peers".

And then when you toss in Aldon Smith, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Bruce Miller, etc. versus Rodney Hudson, Vick Ballard, Marcus Cannon, & Co, and it's an absolutely landslide.

This. It simply doesnt matter if there are other great QBS in the league. The Niners did not have a franchise QB and Baalke stole one in the 2nd rd. Jaworski thinks he could be the greatest of all time. Now, I think thats crazy talk this early in his career but you have to admit he knows more about what it takes to be a great QB than anyone in here does.

You can continue to argue that your draft is better but I doubt you would find anyone anywhere to agree with you.

I don't think even JJ Watt would agree.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Have to wait and see. Depends on the trajectory of Watt, Smith and CK. if Watt becomes the GOAT for DL ( way to early to project, but he just had the greatest single year of any DL), then you have to compare how Smith and CK develop their game, if Watt was an average to good player, it would be easy to concede. In that he has no peer amongst 34 DE, unlike peers that both Smith and CK possess, the value of what he creates for a team is huge,

In other words, compare Watt with the next best 34DE. Then, compare CK with Wilson, RGIii, Luck, Rodgers, manning, Brees, Brady, Ben, etc. This doesn't discount the talent of CK at all. It just shows a team is more likely to find a guy that fits into this group than Watt and any other 34 DE. The same applies to Smith who has a peer in Miller, someone similar in Ware, Wake, Matthews.

At this point, Watt is the only transcendent player of the three based on on the field performance and in comparison to players at the same position. In the link provided, ProFootballFocus stated that Watt had the highest grade ever given to any player at any position. He was the most dominant player in the game and that cannot be minimized.

All of this being said, it is way too early in these careers to decide which class is better. Too much football to be played, too many variables including injuries, knife fights, car crashes, DUI's, etc.

One final note: if there is one player in the league who may match Watt's dedication to the game, it may be CK. That dude loves football and wants to be great. And, we all hope he will.

I dunno MadDog, we have a pretty good 3-4 DE in Justin Smith. Watt may be the class at that position, but your post seems to indicate he has no peers. I think that's false. And yes A. Smith and Kaep aren't head and shoulders above the other best players at their respective positions, but we didn't have a franchise OLB or a franchise QB before 2011 and now we do ... we have an All-Pro DE in Justin Smith. I think for drafting for need and hitting two home runs, it was an excellent draft.
If we went MadDog's route in 2011 and took Watt, I assume we would have let Ray McDonald walk in free agency that summer (FA after draft because of lockout).

So we have 2 options:

1. J.J. Watt and Rodney Hudson

or

2. Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Ray McDonald

I'll take option 2. It's a no brainer. Watt's career projection is that of a HOFer, but so is Aldon's. Aldon has more sacks in his first 2 years than anyone in NFL history. Then Kap, a bonafide franchise QB which trumps everything else. McDonald is still one of the top 3-4 DE's in the game. Not much to debate here in my eyes.
should've traded the whole 2012 draft and taken Watt
Originally posted by jreff22:
should've traded the whole 2012 draft and taken Watt

lmao, imagine that.


Smith and Watt on the edges and Smith, bowman, brooks, and willis.


ALL TIME GREAT DEFENSE AND IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Technically we'd probably still have Alex Smith so we might still of had a franchise qb.

I don't know why anyone cares what Maddog would have done differently. You grade the draft based on how the team chose to fill needs. Maddog just falls in love with own opinions and then takes away points because he sees better value elsewhere. That's crazy. Personally I love hearing Maddog's player breakdowns but when he gets into armchair GM mode is when I start to have a problem with his analysis.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Sep 4, 2013 at 12:44 AM ]
Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by jreff22:
should've traded the whole 2012 draft and taken Watt

lmao, imagine that.


Smith and Watt on the edges and Smith, bowman, brooks, and willis.


ALL TIME GREAT DEFENSE AND IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE.
it would be the only time in history that a team decided to punt on first down every drive
I got to say to have that many players from the 11 draft class, contribute that year....Aldon, Culliver, Kendall, Miller among others contributing right away....already made that class one of the best in Niner history....

But

To get a franchise QB that same draft....MD, it's not even close. This was a draft for the ages
Been in this road before with MD.

I recall having an animated debate with him and all I asked was for him to say he was wrong about a particular pick (been so long I don't even remember who the player was). Back to the present and how many years later, I still have not seen him admit he was wrong.

Good luck to those waiting for him to say he was wrong. May he have said, "I am a man enough to admit when I am wrong," you will never see it written (typed/posted) by him.

- 98
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