MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis for 2012 NFL Draft

Originally posted by AmpLee:

To be fair, I backed up my opinion with evidence. Now, I admit, I did not have the evidence you pointed to as it was buried in a thread I did not look in (I only looked at two threads), but I still pulled evidence to support a fact that at one time, was your opinion. I'm man enough to admit that I did not know your opinion had changed, and my apologies regarding that, sincerely. However, I'm far from a revisionist, liar, or troll. That's just completely dishonest.

My claim has very little to do with where Gabbert or Watt was on your best player rankings, and everything to do with the fact you use Watt's success as a crutch to your 'greatness'. My gripe is that you blasted Baalke and York for every thing they did and have never admitted that you were completely wrong. In fact, now it seems that you were just combating Baalke homers, when in reality you had moved the goal posts of what a 'homer' was by spewing so much hate towards the man and our management. You were up in arms about the McDonald contract, you chastised them for letting TKO go in favor of Bowman, you ripped them for not going after Nnamdi or Carr and instead lucking out on getting the runt of the FA CB litter in Rogers, you didn't like the picks of Aldon, Kap, Culliver, or Miller, and you said we'd be more likely to go 4-12 in 2011 than 8-8 (predicting we'd win 6 games).

And it's not even the fact you were so wrong. It's that you condescended anyone who differed in opinion to you. Heck, every poster on here is wrong about things, but no one gives a damn because they don't chastise others for having a differing opinion. Here's your chance. Man up and admit you were flat out wrong about Baalke and our FO.

I have moved on from the past. Nobody is great, everyone is humbled by the draft. Admitted numerous times before that my initial grade for 2011 was way too harsh. You can read my comments inside numerous posts in this thread. Would still take my 2011 class, but that doesn't minimize Baalkes success in 2011.

I encourage you to move on from 2011. Trust me, I am not that evil.

Originally posted by dmatt:

I'll take yours.

Thanks. Jackson has really looked good this preseason and Allen might just get that starting gig after the pick 6 this past week. Love Sanu and Konz should be that anchor for Ryan for the next decade. Surprised Thompson was not been better in 2012, but has been solid in camp and this past week versus Indi.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by AmpLee:
To be fair, I backed up my opinion with evidence. Now, I admit, I did not have the evidence you pointed to as it was buried in a thread I did not look in (I only looked at two threads), but I still pulled evidence to support a fact that at one time, was your opinion. I'm man enough to admit that I did not know your opinion had changed, and my apologies regarding that, sincerely. However, I'm far from a revisionist, liar, or troll. That's just completely dishonest.

My claim has very little to do with where Gabbert or Watt was on your best player rankings, and everything to do with the fact you use Watt's success as a crutch to your 'greatness'. My gripe is that you blasted Baalke and York for every thing they did and have never admitted that you were completely wrong. In fact, now it seems that you were just combating Baalke homers, when in reality you had moved the goal posts of what a 'homer' was by spewing so much hate towards the man and our management. You were up in arms about the McDonald contract, you chastised them for letting TKO go in favor of Bowman, you ripped them for not going after Nnamdi or Carr and instead lucking out on getting the runt of the FA CB litter in Rogers, you didn't like the picks of Aldon, Kap, Culliver, or Miller, and you said we'd be more likely to go 4-12 in 2011 than 8-8 (predicting we'd win 6 games).

And it's not even the fact you were so wrong. It's that you condescended anyone who differed in opinion to you. Heck, every poster on here is wrong about things, but no one gives a damn because they don't chastise others for having a differing opinion. Here's your chance. Man up and admit you were flat out wrong about Baalke and our FO.

I have moved on from the past. Nobody is great, everyone is humbled by the draft. Admitted numerous times before that my initial grade for 2011 was way too harsh. You can read my comments inside numerous posts in this thread. Would still take my 2011 class, but that doesn't minimize Baalkes success in 2011.

I encourage you to move on from 2011. Trust me, I am not that evil.

I dont think you would EVER admit that your class is inferior to Baalke's even when its obvious. I wouldnt trade Kaep straight up for Watt even if he is an awesome DE. Aldon Smith and Kaep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else on your 2011 board.

The guys you wanted in 2011 arent bad at all. But no impartial observer would say its better than the haul that Baalke brought in.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by AmpLee:
To be fair, I backed up my opinion with evidence. Now, I admit, I did not have the evidence you pointed to as it was buried in a thread I did not look in (I only looked at two threads), but I still pulled evidence to support a fact that at one time, was your opinion. I'm man enough to admit that I did not know your opinion had changed, and my apologies regarding that, sincerely. However, I'm far from a revisionist, liar, or troll. That's just completely dishonest.

My claim has very little to do with where Gabbert or Watt was on your best player rankings, and everything to do with the fact you use Watt's success as a crutch to your 'greatness'. My gripe is that you blasted Baalke and York for every thing they did and have never admitted that you were completely wrong. In fact, now it seems that you were just combating Baalke homers, when in reality you had moved the goal posts of what a 'homer' was by spewing so much hate towards the man and our management. You were up in arms about the McDonald contract, you chastised them for letting TKO go in favor of Bowman, you ripped them for not going after Nnamdi or Carr and instead lucking out on getting the runt of the FA CB litter in Rogers, you didn't like the picks of Aldon, Kap, Culliver, or Miller, and you said we'd be more likely to go 4-12 in 2011 than 8-8 (predicting we'd win 6 games).

And it's not even the fact you were so wrong. It's that you condescended anyone who differed in opinion to you. Heck, every poster on here is wrong about things, but no one gives a damn because they don't chastise others for having a differing opinion. Here's your chance. Man up and admit you were flat out wrong about Baalke and our FO.

I have moved on from the past. Nobody is great, everyone is humbled by the draft. Admitted numerous times before that my initial grade for 2011 was way too harsh. You can read my comments inside numerous posts in this thread. Would still take my 2011 class, but that doesn't minimize Baalkes success in 2011.

I encourage you to move on from 2011. Trust me, I am not that evil.

I dont think you would EVER admit that your class is inferior to Baalke's even when its obvious. I wouldnt trade Kaep straight up for Watt even if he is an awesome DE. Aldon Smith and Kaep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else on your 2011 board.

The guys you wanted in 2011 arent bad at all. But no impartial observer would say its better than the haul that Baalke brought in.

To me, this argument is feels a bit like arguing over which is better, a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. The correct answer is either.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I dont think you would EVER admit that your class is inferior to Baalke's even when its obvious. I wouldnt trade Kaep straight up for Watt even if he is an awesome DE. Aldon Smith and Kaep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else on your 2011 board.

The guys you wanted in 2011 arent bad at all. But no impartial observer would say its better than the haul that Baalke brought in.

Ya, the inability to admit that Baalke's draft class didn't just beat MadDog's, but completely annihilated it, is cringe-worthy and indicative of how (despite his assertions to the contrary) he absolutely does not admit when he's wrong. For chrissakes, the 2nd best player in his draft was Rodney Hudson, lol. Baalke's 2nd best player (or at least the 2nd most important) was Aldon Smith. Those two drafts aren't even remotely close to each other. This is ridiculous.

MD can't be held accountable for a trade in the second round made by TB and JH. Nobody can predict trades. I love Aldon period. But the difference between him and Watt isn't just a little as many on this board are saying. Watt is the most dominant player in the NFL not named Kaep, Rodgers, Manning, or Brady. Watt is capable of LT like performances not with standing his elbow. TB got it seriously wrong on that pick.. We were lucky Aldon is as good as he is. The Giants won super bowls based on LT's performances. Triple teams free so many players up. Even Clowney isn't going to be as good as Watt, maybe equal but not better. So don't sell that Aldon is almost as good because it simply isn't true.

The 49ers 2011 draft is one of the best I have ever seen. To get a franchise qb and a franchise olb in the same draft is unthinkable. I would take aldon over watt.imo

I love me some Amp V MD debates!

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

I love me some Amp V MD debates!

It really wasn't a debate. It was a false accusation that was rectified. Nothing more than that.

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Originally posted by outside4949:

The 49ers 2011 draft is one of the best I have ever seen. To get a franchise qb and a franchise olb in the same draft is unthinkable. I would take aldon over watt.imo

A worthy read that might change your thinking.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/03/2012-pff-defensive-player-of-the-year/

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
[

Originally posted by outside4949:
The 49ers 2011 draft is one of the best I have ever seen. To get a franchise qb and a franchise olb in the same draft is unthinkable. I would take aldon over watt.imo

A worthy read that might change your thinking.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/03/2012-pff-defensive-player-of-the-year/

It might change his mind on Aldon over Watt but it certainly wouldnt change anyones mind (other than yours perhaps) that Aldon and Kaep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else from your 2011 class.

Why dont you just admit that Baalke's 2011 draft was superior to yours. It isnt that hard to do.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
It might change his mind on Aldon over Watt but it certainly wouldnt change anyones mind (other than yours perhaps) that Aldon and Kaep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else from your 2011 class.

Why dont you just admit that Baalke's 2011 draft was superior to yours. It isnt that hard to do.

He can't.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

It might change his mind on Aldon over Watt but it certainly wouldnt change anyones mind (other than yours perhaps) that Aldon and Kaep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else from your 2011 class.

Why dont you just admit that Baalke's 2011 draft was superior to yours. It isnt that hard to do.

Have to wait and see. Depends on the trajectory of Watt, Smith and CK. if Watt becomes the GOAT for DL ( way to early to project, but he just had the greatest single year of any DL), then you have to compare how Smith and CK develop their game, if Watt was an average to good player, it would be easy to concede. In that he has no peer amongst 34 DE, unlike peers that both Smith and CK possess, the value of what he creates for a team is huge,

In other words, compare Watt with the next best 34DE. Then, compare CK with Wilson, RGIii, Luck, Rodgers, manning, Brees, Brady, Ben, etc. This doesn't discount the talent of CK at all. It just shows a team is more likely to find a guy that fits into this group than Watt and any other 34 DE. The same applies to Smith who has a peer in Miller, someone similar in Ware, Wake, Matthews.

At this point, Watt is the only transcendent player of the three based on on the field performance and in comparison to players at the same position. In the link provided, ProFootballFocus stated that Watt had the highest grade ever given to any player at any position. He was the most dominant player in the game and that cannot be minimized.

All of this being said, it is way too early in these careers to decide which class is better. Too much football to be played, too many variables including injuries, knife fights, car crashes, DUI's, etc.

One final note: if there is one player in the league who may match Watt's dedication to the game, it may be CK. That dude loves football and wants to be great. And, we all hope he will.

A franchise QB is more valuable than the best 3-4 DE in the game, and it's not even close, even if that franchise QB has "peers".

And then when you toss in Aldon Smith, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Bruce Miller, etc. versus Rodney Hudson, Vick Ballard, Marcus Cannon, & Co, and it's an absolutely landslide.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
A franchise QB is more valuable than the best 3-4 DE in the game, and it's not even close, even if that franchise QB has "peers".

And then when you toss in Aldon Smith, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Bruce Miller, etc. versus Rodney Hudson, Vick Ballard, Marcus Cannon, & Co, and it's an absolutely landslide.

This. It simply doesnt matter if there are other great QBS in the league. The Niners did not have a franchise QB and Baalke stole one in the 2nd rd. Jaworski thinks he could be the greatest of all time. Now, I think thats crazy talk this early in his career but you have to admit he knows more about what it takes to be a great QB than anyone in here does.

You can continue to argue that your draft is better but I doubt you would find anyone anywhere to agree with you.