MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Grinner:
I'm curious to know, just how much of Allen in college you saw ? Local broadcasting used to show Butte College games. Sonoma State wasn't exactly a regular on TV either. Hutch started as a true frosh and of course Michigan was often on the tele.

Allen played at Sonoma St. I think we can safely assume that very few people saw him play.

But, if you were in the Bay Area, it was apparent that he was going to drafted and have a good NFL career.

I really thought he would do well, but on the other hand, very few people knew he would be the player he became.

Your going on local newspaper accounts ? Rohnert Park was hardly a football Mecca.

I am happy with our draft picks. With our team being so stacked it is easy to take chances on players. I think our players will do well. Good draft grade or not, that is all that matters in the end.

Originally posted by Grinner:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Grinner:
I'm curious to know, just how much of Allen in college you saw ? Local broadcasting used to show Butte College games. Sonoma State wasn't exactly a regular on TV either. Hutch started as a true frosh and of course Michigan was often on the tele.

Allen played at Sonoma St. I think we can safely assume that very few people saw him play.

But, if you were in the Bay Area, it was apparent that he was going to drafted and have a good NFL career.

I really thought he would do well, but on the other hand, very few people knew he would be the player he became.

Your going on local newspaper accounts ? Rohnert Park was hardly a football Mecca.

Not all that complicated.

If you lived in the Bay Area and if you followed football, you knew who Allen was.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Grinner:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Grinner:
I'm curious to know, just how much of Allen in college you saw ? Local broadcasting used to show Butte College games. Sonoma State wasn't exactly a regular on TV either. Hutch started as a true frosh and of course Michigan was often on the tele.

Allen played at Sonoma St. I think we can safely assume that very few people saw him play.

But, if you were in the Bay Area, it was apparent that he was going to drafted and have a good NFL career.

I really thought he would do well, but on the other hand, very few people knew he would be the player he became.

Your going on local newspaper accounts ? Rohnert Park was hardly a football Mecca.

Not all that complicated.

If you lived in the Bay Area and if you followed football, you knew who Allen was.

I have and do live in the bay area and have long been a football fan. Not complicated at all is right.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Sorry, I meant the Bengals, not the Browns--as you could easily tell from comparing your actual post to what I was trying to quote. Inserting in the term "Bengals" for the term "Browns," the question remains--do you have any evidence to support your statement that the Bengals would not have cared about drafting at #30 instead of #27?

We'd love to read the "pre-draft sample" to which you referred. I'm asking you for a link to it, or the name of it, or some description of it. Your response seems to imply that there really was no such "pre-draft sample" specifically.

Your post here is pretty much a non-response to any of the questions raised.

Nuff said. Thanks anyway.

I think what you really want is an admission on camera or on audio tape from a Gm or GM's that they were: 1) actively attempting to trade down; 2) and at least to the 30th spot; before you believe that Baalke had this option. I think this option was available, but as stated, the GM's don't go around post-draft saying that they really wanted to move down but couldn't find a trade partner. It just doesn't happen.

I have already laid out the number of teams that did move down in the first round, have stated from my reading in the days before the draft that the bulk of teams in the first round wanted to move down (if you are skeptical, then you will have to do the research, otherwise trust that I understand the English language and that I am not making stories up).

You want undeniable proof that there was absolutely no option for the Niners to move up, that Cincinnati thought it was impossible to land their man at 30 if they traded back too far, that Cleveland had to stay at 22 (even though from all reports in nearby Cleveland that the target they wanted at 22 was gone at 20, which usually causes teams to trade back), that the Lions were in no way interested in moving down 7 slots to 30, and much more. I just don't buy the argument, based on following the draft for decades now, following information before, during, and after the draft, and what was happening in the first round, with the high number of trades. I sincerely doubt that Baalke's hands were tied, that he was stuck with that pick, and had no ability to go up and get DeCastro.

No, what I want is a link to the "pre-draft survey" to which you were referring. Obviously, no such link is available, because said "pre-draft survey" was fictional.

The lack of such a "pre-draft survey" is further evidence that you are not relying on any actual evidence for your opinion that the Niners could have moved up to draft DeCastro. Easy enough to speculate that they could have moved up, or to wish that they could have moved up.

But making stuff up ("there was a pre-draft survey") to try to support such a wish or opinion casts doubt on your entire post and severely damages the credibility of that post.

Originally posted by Grinner:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Grinner:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Grinner:
I'm curious to know, just how much of Allen in college you saw ? Local broadcasting used to show Butte College games. Sonoma State wasn't exactly a regular on TV either. Hutch started as a true frosh and of course Michigan was often on the tele.

Allen played at Sonoma St. I think we can safely assume that very few people saw him play.

But, if you were in the Bay Area, it was apparent that he was going to drafted and have a good NFL career.

I really thought he would do well, but on the other hand, very few people knew he would be the player he became.

Your going on local newspaper accounts ? Rohnert Park was hardly a football Mecca.

Not all that complicated.

If you lived in the Bay Area and if you followed football, you knew who Allen was.

I have and do live in the bay area and have long been a football fan. Not complicated at all is right.

Now, I live in Santiago, Chile. It is much more complicated. Thanks for the internet

I used to post here but this whole comments section is the reason I don't trolls troll. Thx mad

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

No, what I want is a link to the "pre-draft survey" to which you were referring. Obviously, no such link is available, because said "pre-draft survey" was fictional.

The lack of such a "pre-draft survey" is further evidence that you are not relying on any actual evidence for your opinion that the Niners could have moved up to draft DeCastro. Easy enough to speculate that they could have moved up, or to wish that they could have moved up.

But making stuff up ("there was a pre-draft survey") to try to support such a wish or opinion casts doubt on your entire post and severely damages the credibility of that post.

Can we stop this ping pong now please. The discussion has gone as far as it can and I am not at all happy about the direction. I would prefer not to lock the thread, if I can avoid it.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
No, what I want is a link to the "pre-draft survey" to which you were referring. Obviously, no such link is available, because said "pre-draft survey" was fictional.

The lack of such a "pre-draft survey" is further evidence that you are not relying on any actual evidence for your opinion that the Niners could have moved up to draft DeCastro. Easy enough to speculate that they could have moved up, or to wish that they could have moved up.

But making stuff up ("there was a pre-draft survey") to try to support such a wish or opinion casts doubt on your entire post and severely damages the credibility of that post.

Can we stop this ping pong now please. The discussion has gone as far as it can and I am not at all happy about the direction. I would prefer not to lock the thread, if I can avoid it.

I'm just asking questions that are raised by posts.

Locking this thread now would deprive MadDog of the ability to correct a mistake he made in a previous post (i.e., "I meant it was a 'pre-draft survey' that I conducted myself"), or correct the apparent damage to his credibility created by his prior post. (If, for example, he can actually provide a link to the "pre draft survey" of GMs to which he referred, proving that its not fictional.) So locking the thread now doesn't seem fair to him.

Are we not allowed to question any posts? Or are we just not allowed to question any of MadDog's posts?

Neither seems entirely fair, but the latter seems especially unfair to MadDog.

(BTW, though he probably doesn't recognize it, I'm actually one of MadDog's best friends on this board. Meaning that unlike some, I don't just blindly accept his stuff, I actually pay attention to what he says, and sometimes point out mistakes he might make. Wouldn't we all be better posters with feedback like that?)

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

No, what I want is a link to the "pre-draft survey" to which you were referring. Obviously, no such link is available, because said "pre-draft survey" was fictional.

The lack of such a "pre-draft survey" is further evidence that you are not relying on any actual evidence for your opinion that the Niners could have moved up to draft DeCastro. Easy enough to speculate that they could have moved up, or to wish that they could have moved up.

But making stuff up ("there was a pre-draft survey") to try to support such a wish or opinion casts doubt on your entire post and severely damages the credibility of that post.

Can we stop this ping pong now please. The discussion has gone as far as it can and I am not at all happy about the direction. I would prefer not to lock the thread, if I can avoid it.

I'm just asking questions that are raised by posts.

Locking this thread now would deprive MadDog of the ability to correct a mistake he made in a previous post (i.e., "I meant it was a 'pre-draft survey' that I conducted myself"), or correct the apparent damage to his credibility created by his prior post. (If, for example, he can actually provide a link to the "pre draft survey" of GMs to which he referred, proving that its not fictional.) So locking the thread now doesn't seem fair to him.

Are we not allowed to question any posts? Or are we just not allowed to question any of MadDog's posts?

Neither seems entirely fair, but the latter seems especially unfair to MadDog.

(BTW, though he probably doesn't recognize it, I'm actually one of MadDog's best friends on this board. Meaning that unlike some, I don't just blindly accept his stuff, I actually pay attention to what he says, and sometimes point out mistakes he might make. Wouldn't we all be better posters with feedback like that?)

Read what I said please. If you have any problem with this please use the pm the mod facility and we will be happy to discuss the matter offline.

Originally posted by Grinner:
DeCastro was by far one of the better players regardless of postion, available in this draft.

The Steelers got thier perfect Lineman.

The Niners want a guard suited at pushing the pile, sealing and pinching off. They have thier pulling guard in Iupati.

Wouln't be suprised if none of the players drafted in 2012 are still on the roster in 5 years

I think everyone can "push the pile...and pinch off"

Gets a bit tougher too do when you get older

No point in getting DeCastro when he could get a better player in Zeitler.

Originally posted by SD49ers:

Originally posted by Grinner:
DeCastro was by far one of the better players regardless of postion, available in this draft.

The Steelers got thier perfect Lineman.

The Niners want a guard suited at pushing the pile, sealing and pinching off. They have thier pulling guard in Iupati.

Wouln't be suprised if none of the players drafted in 2012 are still on the roster in 5 years

I think everyone can "push the pile...and pinch off"

Originally posted by SD49ers:

Originally posted by Grinner:
DeCastro was by far one of the better players regardless of postion, available in this draft.

The Steelers got thier perfect Lineman.

The Niners want a guard suited at pushing the pile, sealing and pinching off. They have thier pulling guard in Iupati.

Wouln't be suprised if none of the players drafted in 2012 are still on the roster in 5 years

I think everyone can "push the pile...and pinch off"

Yes. The sealing part is tough though.