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I'm not falling for the hype!!

Dez Bryant- Justin Blackmon? Yeah
Originally posted by mike:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
28 catches for 800+ yards, keep in mind he was in a run heavy offense. Imagine if Hill was in a pass-first offense and had 30 more catches, that's 1,600 yards. But you need to look at more than just measureables and production, its about getting separation at the next level and creating mismatches. Sometimes production doesn't always equal production in the NFL but more so if a payer will fit into your system or complement your existing players and I believe Hill can do just that.

Because his YAC is going to stay the same with more catches...Like I'm sure Ricardo Lockette(highest YAC in NFL) from the seahawks would have 2500 yards if he had 50 or so receptions lol.

In a pass first offense defenses would have covered him more tightly, and his average would have gone down simply from having more short/medium passes. As it is right now, all Hill basically did was streak deep down the field.

I thank you. Sound reasoning, sir... But seriously, everyone fell in love with his stopwatch. Before that he was probably a second or third rounder. We had another fast combine guy, Jason Hill...(coincidence?) I'm not falling for it!
I like Stephen Hill as a long term prospect, I'm just unsure how he fits into the Niner's offensive scheme. Yes, we got Randy Moss, but I'm hardly convinced he's going to be a starting receiver for us, especially given the terms of his contract. The team isn't a vertical offense and our starting/snap-heavy receivers need a full repertoire of routes to operate in the system. I'm not doubting that Hill couldn't become that type of receiver over time, but he's not going to be an effective receiver at running quick slants and intermediate digs in his first year because he's never once been asked to navigate through traffic and catch the ball over the middle. He'd be a huge upgrade in the vertical passing game, but do we have enough snaps that require that kind of skill set to warrant spending a first round selection on him? The people that are clamoring for Stephen Hill are the same people saying we need an immediate impact at WR, as we are ready to compete for a championship now, but he's not the type of receiver that will have us ready to compete for a championship. As of now he's a young player with a skill set similar to Randy Moss, and it makes little sense to bring in that type of receiver when A) you just signed Randy Moss and B) you need to find a player with the skills to step in and compete for a starting role out of the gate so he can upgrade the receiving corps in more ways than just being a rotational player.
Jeffery makes sense because of his thick build but his speed is an issue, not for running vertical routes, as his jumping ability and hands make it so he doesn't have to have elite seperation on downfield routes, but he's not explosive off the line (or so the draft experts/scouts I read say) so I don't know how effective he would be on shorter and intermediate routes as well.

The best player for for our needs, aside from Blackmon, is Kendall Wright. I think he's better than Floyd and miles away from Stephen Hill. I've watched a couple Baylor games and he is very complete. I've seen him weave over linebackers and under safeties while maintaining seperation from the CB to catch the ball over the middle. He's a little guy but he's played 4 years without injury concerns because he has a knack for going into crowds without getting rocked. It's a pretty unique ability, like a spidey sense. The few times I saw him play I was incredibly impressed. I would say the same for Blackmon and Jeffery, but Jeffery does look a little slow. Most of his catches are awesome (from the games I saw him play) but they are over a CB who's draped on him because he's not elite at getting seperation. Also, I think due to some early comparison to Desean Jackson (now gone after that 4.6 40) people thought Wright was just a small guy with speed that wouldn't go over the middle. Now I think people see him as a small guy that can't be an elite deep threat. But he got a reputation as a speedster for a reason. He burns fools. He can be just as good a deep threat as Hill. Don't be fooled by the combine.
Originally posted by D-Money:
Two guys , Calvin Johnson and Demaryus Thomas ( spelling?)., both from the same school with similar measurables, and now both lighting up the NFL, one with Tebow as qb. Now I know this could be coincidence or it could be a program that is now producing top notch receivers for the NFL. the problem is he played in The triple option so we don't know what he can in a more traditional offense. That being said, I'll pass all day on Jeffery at 30 as I've seen what he can do, not impressed, would rather draft Hill (you cant teach speed) who looks like he could be a true #1, while Jefferey is a #2 receiver.

Come at Me. Hahaha. LMAO

I agree with you. We would be rolling the dice, but there's a lot to like there. And he has a really high ceiling. Plus he wouldn't be the featured part of the offense, so he wouldn't have double teams from the get-go.

I just hope he's available at 30. I'd even be down to trade up to the mid 20s to get him.
Now that is convincing!! Problem is most likely have to move up to get Wright! We can let Jeffrey come to us
The one area Kendall Wright probably wouldn't offer an upgrade is in the redzone as his size limits his ability to simply go up and get it. He can still be effective in the redzone because he's elite in crowded areas, but he definitely wouldn't be as big of an asset in the RZ as Jeffery would, but I think signing a guy like Chaz Schillens alleviates that need. Randy Moss is also tall as hell with the some of the best ball skills the league has ever seen so I'm sure he'll nab a few TDs in the back of the endzone.
  • mike
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Originally posted by 2Legit2Quit:
I like Stephen Hill as a long term prospect, I'm just unsure how he fits into the Niner's offensive scheme. Yes, we got Randy Moss, but I'm hardly convinced he's going to be a starting receiver for us, especially given the terms of his contract. The team isn't a vertical offense and our starting/snap-heavy receivers need a full repertoire of routes to operate in the system. I'm not doubting that Hill couldn't become that type of receiver over time, but he's not going to be an effective receiver at running quick slants and intermediate digs in his first year because he's never once been asked to navigate through traffic and catch the ball over the middle. He'd be a huge upgrade in the vertical passing game, but do we have enough snaps that require that kind of skill set to warrant spending a first round selection on him? The people that are clamoring for Stephen Hill are the same people saying we need an immediate impact at WR, as we are ready to compete for a championship now, but he's not the type of receiver that will have us ready to compete for a championship. As of now he's a young player with a skill set similar to Randy Moss, and it makes little sense to bring in that type of receiver when A) you just signed Randy Moss and B) you need to find a player with the skills to step in and compete for a starting role out of the gate so he can upgrade the receiving corps in more ways than just being a rotational player.
Jeffery makes sense because of his thick build but his speed is an issue, not for running vertical routes, as his jumping ability and hands make it so he doesn't have to have elite seperation on downfield routes, but he's not explosive off the line (or so the draft experts/scouts I read say) so I don't know how effective he would be on shorter and intermediate routes as well.

The best player for for our needs, aside from Blackmon, is Kendall Wright. I think he's better than Floyd and miles away from Stephen Hill. I've watched a couple Baylor games and he is very complete. I've seen him weave over linebackers and under safeties while maintaining seperation from the CB to catch the ball over the middle. He's a little guy but he's played 4 years without injury concerns because he has a knack for going into crowds without getting rocked. It's a pretty unique ability, like a spidey sense. The few times I saw him play I was incredibly impressed. I would say the same for Blackmon and Jeffery, but Jeffery does look a little slow. Most of his catches are awesome (from the games I saw him play) but they are over a CB who's draped on him because he's not elite at getting seperation. Also, I think due to some early comparison to Desean Jackson (now gone after that 4.6 40) people thought Wright was just a small guy with speed that wouldn't go over the middle. Now I think people see him as a small guy that can't be an elite deep threat. But he got a reputation as a speedster for a reason. He burns fools. He can be just as good a deep threat as Hill. Don't be fooled by the combine.

Agreed, I'd say if you're going to knock wright on his 40 at least give him props for his vertical jump, Stephan hill jumped 1 inch higher but he's 7 inches taller. Wright has freakish athleticism that makes him just as much of a threat in a crowd.

He isn't desean jackson, desean is 3 inches shorter and a way better "track star". But he can be similar in that they both are great jumpers.

Anyone who has watched wright knows he plays faster than his combine numbers. If he falls to us there's no way he doesn't get picked. But I like him enough I'd trade a mid round pick to move up to get him(we're only a few pieces away so losing a depth pick is no big deal for a guy who can impact from day 1). He would be pretty much the ideal slot receiver.
[ Edited by mike on Mar 15, 2012 at 11:24 PM ]
  • cools
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Read about what scouts and coaches are saying about his blocking ability, and how hard he works

Things like that say alot more about what kind of player he is, then weight and height
Yes.. REDZONE I want touchdowns! David Akers,bless your heart, I dont want to see you on the field unless you are kicking p.a.t.s, kickoffs or throwing touchdown passes!!
We'll give you a cookie if you're right in 3-5 years.

Seriously doe, the draft is all about projection, whether that be based on measureables, college production or a combination of the two. IMO, Jeffrey is as talented as any WR in this draft, but he hasn't always shown the necessary dedication/work ethic that you'd like to see in a top pick, nor has he displayed the kind of speed you want to see in a big-bodied WR. So based on projections, Hill is likely to be picked higher than Jeffrey, but both have great size and are crazily talented/athletic. But if I was investing millions of dollars in a young WR, I'd go with the faster one who caught everything in sight at the combine and who displayed big-play ability but who played in a run-oriented offense (upside) over the guy who's slower and has a questionable work ethic. But that's me.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Mar 15, 2012 at 11:47 PM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
We'll give you a cookie if you're right in 3-5 years.

Seriously doe, the draft is all about projection, whether that be based on measureables, college production or a combination of the two. IMO, Jeffrey is as talented as any WR in this draft, but he hasn't always shown the necessary dedication/work ethic that you'd like to see in a top pick, nor has displayed the kind of speed you want to see in a big-bodied WR. So based on projections, Hill is likely to be picked higher than Jeffrey, but both have great size and are crazily talented/athletic. But if I was investing millions of dollars in a young WR, I'd go with the faster one who caught everything in sight at the combine and who displayed big-play a bility but who played in a run-oriented offense (upside) over the guy who's slower and has a questionable work. But that's me.

Jeffrey hasnt run yet, what if he runs a 4.6 like wright, is that fast enough for you? Anquan Boldin and Marcus Colston arent thought of as "fast" but dudes are studs!

Oh and I'll give u a cookie if you are right!
Originally posted by SAVAGE49er:
Now that is convincing!! Problem is most likely have to move up to get Wright! We can let Jeffrey come to us

That's true. It would be a miracle if Wright fell in our laps. But, if Baalke feels like I do about Wright (doubtful, but for the sake of argument hear this out) and he thinks he's both an immediate upgrade across from Crabtree and a long term solution at one WR position, then giving up a 3rd or 4th to go up and get him is a reasonable price to pay. You never want to part with draft picks, but Baalke has done it in both previous drafts when he feels the talent is worth it.

As for Jeffery, I think he's been written off all to quickly. He was widely viewed as a top 10 pick heading into this season, and for good reason. Few sophomores (he may have even been a redshirt freshman the year before last...) have the type of production he does in the SEC. However, while he still might be an elite talent, I doubt (could be wrong) that he's being seriously considered by Baalke and Harbaugh, whose "gold star" draft board probably would lower Jeffery on the board for some of his odd behavior during the combine (not competing in some drills without injury/excuse) and his weight concerns which are fixable but show bad discipline and possibly a bad work ethic. I also remember reading that Jeffery reportedly turned some teams off during the interview process at the combine.

Regardless, I strongly agree with the general thrust of this thread. I'm not saying Hill isn't going to be a star, I just think his measurables are getting people too worked up, over a "perceived" need. Baalke clearly stated we need to upgrade the receiver position. The fans were the ones that took that to mean "tall guy with elite straight line speed."
Originally posted by 2Legit2Quit:
Originally posted by SAVAGE49er:
Now that is convincing!! Problem is most likely have to move up to get Wright! We can let Jeffrey come to us

That's true. It would be a miracle if Wright fell in our laps. But, if Baalke feels like I do about Wright (doubtful, but for the sake of argument hear this out) and he thinks he's both an immediate upgrade across from Crabtree and a long term solution at one WR position, then giving up a 3rd or 4th to go up and get him is a reasonable price to pay. You never want to part with draft picks, but Baalke has done it in both previous drafts when he feels the talent is worth it.

As for Jeffery, I think he's been written off all to quickly. He was widely viewed as a top 10 pick heading into this season, and for good reason. Few sophomores (he may have even been a redshirt freshman the year before last...) have the type of production he does in the SEC. However, while he still might be an elite talent, I doubt (could be wrong) that he's being seriously considered by Baalke and Harbaugh, whose "gold star" draft board probably would lower Jeffery on the board for some of his odd behavior during the combine (not competing in some drills without injury/excuse) and his weight concerns which are fixable but show bad discipline and possibly a bad work ethic. I also remember reading that Jeffery reportedly turned some teams off during the interview process at the combine.

Regardless, I strongly agree with the general thrust of this thread. I'm not saying Hill isn't going to be a star, I just think his measurables are getting people too worked up, over a "perceived" need. Baalke clearly stated we need to upgrade the receiver position. The fans were the ones that took that to mean "tall guy with elite straight line speed."



Wow get out of my brain!
Originally posted by SAVAGE49er:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
We'll give you a cookie if you're right in 3-5 years.

Seriously doe, the draft is all about projection, whether that be based on measureables, college production or a combination of the two. IMO, Jeffrey is as talented as any WR in this draft, but he hasn't always shown the necessary dedication/work ethic that you'd like to see in a top pick, nor has displayed the kind of speed you want to see in a big-bodied WR. So based on projections, Hill is likely to be picked higher than Jeffrey, but both have great size and are crazily talented/athletic. But if I was investing millions of dollars in a young WR, I'd go with the faster one who caught everything in sight at the combine and who displayed big-play a bility but who played in a run-oriented offense (upside) over the guy who's slower and has a questionable work. But that's me.

Jeffrey hasnt run yet, what if he runs a 4.6 like wright, is that fast enough for you? Anquan Boldin and Marcus Colston arent thought of as "fast" but dudes are studs!

Oh and I'll give u a cookie if you are right!

Ok, if it makes you feel better about yourself, we'll all just agree with you and not offer up any differing opinions. I went out of my way to point out how talented Jeffrey is, and only pointed out that speed is an issue (not a deal-breaker or a death blow to his career). I hope he runs well and I hope he has a great career....was just saying if it was up to me, I'd place my bet on Hill. You feel differently, that's America for you.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Mar 15, 2012 at 11:46 PM ]
  • buck
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Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
We'll give you a cookie if you're right in 3-5 years.

Seriously doe, the draft is all about projection, whether that be based on measureables, college production or a combination of the two. IMO, Jeffrey is as talented as any WR in this draft, but he hasn't always shown the necessary dedication/work ethic that you'd like to see in a top pick, nor has displayed the kind of speed you want to see in a big-bodied WR. So based on projections, Hill is likely to be picked higher than Jeffrey, but both have great size and are crazily talented/athletic. But if I was investing millions of dollars in a young WR, I'd go with the faster one who caught everything in sight at the combine and who displayed big-play ability but who played in a run-oriented offense (upside) over the guy who's slower and has a questionable work. But that's me.

I basically agree. But first, I have a question. What does "doe" stand for?

My sense is that Hill has better intangibles than Jeffrey.

Hill came into the combine prepared; he put in the required work. I think did everything.

Jeffrey did not put in the required work, and he knew that his 40 time, correctly or incorrectly, would be important. He chose not to run.

Success in the NFL is to a large degree about work and dedication to the craft. I think Hill has work habits and dedication.

I would go with Hill over Jeffrey. I would trade up for Hill, Wright, or Floyd.

If Jeffrey were to fall to us, I would let him continue to fall.