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Were at 30, and Stephen Hill and Fleener are on the board

Were at 30, and Stephen Hill and Fleener are on the board

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Riot:
The more I see of Hill the less impressed I become. Fleener seems the bigger playmaker to me, and that's what we need.

Fleener is probably the better player. Hill is a combine guy. I think Hill will be gone by #30 anyway.
Somebody else might know the actual percentages. How often do we use 2 TE sets? If we use them over 50%, then VD and another TE will always be on the field. Right now the other guy is Walker and he isn't a viable threat. If you are always in the 2 TE set that only leaves room for 2 WR's on the field. Crabs is 1 and right now the 2 is Moss. If you go with Hill as the pick, is Hill on the sidelines watching or is Moss? I'm down to find another stretch the field WR for life after Moss but can't we do that with our other picks? If we go with Hill I still like the pick, I just hope another TE will be drafted or Walker will get alot better and taller over night...
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I would pretty much never waste a 1st on a TE. You can find them later, as evidenced by pretty much all the best TEs in the last 20 years.
Originally posted by Riot:
The more I see of Hill the less impressed I become. Fleener seems the bigger playmaker to me, and that's what we need.

Agree. I think Hill is overhyped... primarily due to the combine. I havent watched his "tape" but when he pulled up on that fake hammy injury after flat out dropping a wide open touchdown , I lost a tiny bit of respect for the guy.
[ Edited by 9erguy on Mar 14, 2012 at 2:50 PM ]
ill take Hill. Fleener is dope too but with VD and no WR's i think Hill is the choice. he could be the next big thing
Originally posted by 9erred:
Look at Free Agency, a run on CB's and WR's in day one, coincidence, no.

Moss is only signed for one year,
Crabtree for 2 more years
Niners need a strong #1 on roster for the next 5 years under contract.

If we sign Mario or Brandon we go Fleener in the first. Then take a wr in the thrid. Speaking of next year, Walker is gone after 2012. The picture will be clearer fto us, but the more moves we make like signing a RG and another wr in the FA period, the more teams will not where the niners are going to come from.
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by 9erred:
Look at Free Agency, a run on CB's and WR's in day one, coincidence, no.

Moss is only signed for one year,
Crabtree for 2 more years
Niners need a strong #1 on roster for the next 5 years under contract.

If we sign Mario or Brandon we go Fleener in the first. Then take a wr in the thrid. Speaking of next year, Walker is gone after 2012. The picture will be clearer fto us, but the more moves we make like signing a RG and another wr in the FA period, the more teams will not where the niners are going to come from.

Mario is not a number 1, and by the current market I would say Lloyd isn't either.
Fleener is the guy we need because he is an instant contributor. Hill is more of a project who probably has the higher ceiling. I take Fleener.
At first, I would say Hill but the more a watch video of Fleener the more I like him...
[ Edited by 619Niner on Mar 15, 2012 at 11:20 AM ]
Well wide receiver was one of if not our biggest weakness last year. Tight end was one of our strengths, so pretty easy decision. You go Hill.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Well wide receiver was one of if not our biggest weakness last year. Tight end was one of our strengths, so pretty easy decision. You go Hill.
I don't see how that works. We had a TE that was good last year so VD was a strength but the other TE (Walker or ?) is not a strength. We had Crabtree produce the same numbers as VD so you have 1 good wr and 1 good TE. That's tied at 1 to 1 and now you need to upgrade each position. If we run more 3 wr sets, than yeah we definitely need another good wr. The Moss signing just cancels out the braylon one from last year...they are just hoping Moss can stay on the field and produce. So..........by my count you have 1 good TE for a system that runs 2 TE sets and 1 wr for those sets and if Moss works out he will be the 2 or 3.

Fleener can't be had in the 2nd round but many of the other wr's can, just not Hill.
Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Well wide receiver was one of if not our biggest weakness last year. Tight end was one of our strengths, so pretty easy decision. You go Hill.
I don't see how that works. We had a TE that was good last year so VD was a strength but the other TE (Walker or ?) is not a strength. We had Crabtree produce the same numbers as VD so you have 1 good wr and 1 good TE. That's tied at 1 to 1 and now you need to upgrade each position. If we run more 3 wr sets, than yeah we definitely need another good wr. The Moss signing just cancels out the braylon one from last year...they are just hoping Moss can stay on the field and produce. So..........by my count you have 1 good TE for a system that runs 2 TE sets and 1 wr for those sets and if Moss works out he will be the 2 or 3.

Fleener can't be had in the 2nd round but many of the other wr's can, just not Hill.

id still take the WR. dominant WRs win games single handedly sometimes. look at guys like desean jackson and calvin johnson who can take a little slant and take it all the way. its a lot harder to find a TE who can do that, theyll help in the redzone because theyre big and they move chains but the niners need homerun hitters to scare the defense. if we had another legit threat at WR Gore would be killing everybody in the run game and in the flats. i think WR helps a lot more
Look, Delanie Walker is only under contract for this upcoming season. After that, there is a chance that he doesn't return. He could potentially be a starting TE on a lower tier team, but on the Niners, he will always be second fiddle to VD. For that reason, I think we pick up Fleener as insurance. He will already be a better athlete than Walker, and at 6'6" with terrific hands, he is a mismatch nightmare, especially in the red zone, but has game breaking ability from anywhere on the field, just like VD, Gronk, Graham, etc.

And Harbaugh loves running TE heavy formations, so the depth is nice as well. And if Walker leaves next season or there's an injury, we still have the ability to run double TE sets, but with the explosiveness of New England's TE duo. Let's say we pick up Lloyd as a FA WR. In spread formations, we have Moss, Crabtree, Lloyd, VD, Fleener, and Gore all on the field...who do you cover?

Also, Fleener is a better value at #30 than Hill. Hill jumped 2-3 rounds based on combine stats? Seems like someone Al Davis would pick. The draft is deep at receiver this season, so why waste #30 on one when Fleener is the better value? We'd be reaching for a player and that doesn't seem like Baalke's MO. Fleener already has a relationship with Harbaugh, is a receiving threat as well, and provides us insurance for years to come. We can grab a receiver anywhere in the 2nd to 4th rounds to add to the WR depth since the draft is deep at the position.


If he is on the board at #30, I'll be shocked if we don't take him.


Also, this is kind of a different topic, but it's related. I feel like the differences in peoples' opinion on who to take, Hill or Fleener, is a difference in how people think JH is going to run his offense. We haven't had a true #1 WR since TO left, and I feel like the people who want Hill, are of the mindset that a team needs a hierarchy of receivers, and as a result, we need to draft one since there weren't any in FA other than Vincent Jackson.
However, I feel like the people who want Fleener, sort of understand that JH wants to run a system based on solid playmaking from across the board. Look at Green Bay, New Orleans, and New England. None of those teams really have a true #1 WR, sure there may be players that are better than others on the team, but for the most part, Brees, Rodgers, and Brady can pick and choose their targets and have the confidence that whoever they are throwing the ball to, will make a play. They are solid from top to bottom with guys who can make plays. I don't think we need a #1 game breaking WR. Why would we when the defense knows that every single guy on the field is a threat to score on any given play?
[ Edited by Alkasquawlik on Mar 15, 2012 at 5:56 PM ]
neither
Originally posted by DaDivaRecieva15:
Hill

This, easy.
Hill...produced a lot in a WR-unfriendly environment.