Originally posted by tjd808185:The guy succeeded in the NFL with quarterbacks like Jay Fieldler, Kordell Stewart, Neil O' Donnell, and Mike Tomzack. Made the playoffs as OC/HC for 6 straight years with 3 different teams. I'm going to state he's better offensive mind than you're giving him credit for.
Here's my actual point btw. I don't care how you classify my view of polished but Gailey's offense is heck of alot closer to a pro offense then Paul Johnson's. If Gailey's offense is 85% pro well that's a good 45% more of a pro passing attack than Paul Johnson's. If I pull up Hill's scouting report you better believe route running is going to be listed as a concern on every single one of them.
Calvin Johnson entered the draft as the #1 rated person on pretty much everyone's board before he blew it up at the combine. He wasn't viewed as a work in progress or a workout warrior like Hill is by anyone. Sorry, it's just not the case.
You want me to talk about route trees which you obviously know a heck of alot more than I do all I'm looking for is any proof that Calvin wasn't polished and you've yet to come up with anything other hypothetically breaking down routes. I know what your definition of a good route runner is but you've to let to put up anything showing that Calvin wasn't that. But go ahead keep talking about the 3 combination converting to the 7 on a cover 2. I'm just guessing but that's going to be hard to find on Youtube.
Re: Chan Gailey's offense. I never said it didn't produce, in fact I said it had exciting numbers. What I said was that it did not have the complexity or demand the precision of a typical NFL offense. The list of QBs does not impress me, as Spread schemes are notorious for getting great stats out of mediocre QBs. You are right, it is extremely tough to find sight adjustments on YouTube, since most highlight films do not show the coverage scheme. I did, however, find some draft analysis on CJ that supports my point. There were not many available from 2007, and you would be surprised how many evaluators did not discuss route-running as either a positive or a negative. The two I included are well-respected evaluators, outinely break down technical play, and do discuss route-running.
From Matt Miller at New Era Scouting Comparing Alshon Jeffery and CJ (both when they entered the draft) . Of course, megatron dominates the overall analysis, but he came up short in this particular area:
Jeffery: 9.3 | Johnson: 8.7
Johnson was used on a number of screen plays and bubble routes designed to get him the ball as fast as possible, and to allow him to work in space. As far as being a true technician in route-running, Johnson was more of an unfinished product when he entered the NFL.
Of course, having massive size and speed definitely helped mask some weaknesses here. A common knock on Johnson coming out of Georgia Tech was that he couldn't, or wouldn't, run over the middle. This was something that plagued his pre-draft visits and workouts.
Jeffery is used as more of an all-around receiver. He will run more deep routes than anything and works particularly well on comeback routes. Jeffery also works in a more complex passing system under Steve Spurrier, making him more NFL-ready to devour a playbook and passing tree. Jeffery does a great job setting up cornerbacks. See his performance against potential Top 10 draft prospect Dre Kirkpatrick of Alabama for examples where Jeffery torched him for two touchdowns.
From Rob Rang at CBS Sports:
Negatives: Has good overall body control, but sometimes does not play up to his timed speed
Even though he has good leaping ability, his timing is sometimes off, as he doesn't win as many jump ball battles as you would expect from a player of his size and arm extension
Demonstrates good toughness battling for the ball, but he has also left quite a few passes on the field, perhaps due to poor passing precision from the quarterback position, but he has caught only 127 of 271 passes thrown to him
For a player over 6:04 and with his jumping skills (45 inches) along with his long reach, it is hard to imagine the smaller cornerbacks having success in batting away 21 of those passes thrown to him the last two-plus years
Better down field than on deep routes, as he tends to lose sight of the ball over his head
Has some hip stiffness when trying to change direction and this will sometimes prevent him from making sharp cuts (takes wasted steps)
Needs to show better hip sink on his cuts
Tends to lose concentration working in a crowd, leading to several missed opportunities (hears defender's footsteps)
Gets his feet down properly when working along the side-lines, but must be more alert to the quarterback scramble
Despite his strength, he will struggle and get frustrated by a physical jam.
Underlined text is specific to route-running, while the italicized just seemed interesting, because it was news to me. I'm not trying to kill the guy, as I think he was and is an absolute stud. I would have taken him top 3 if we could have. I just think his game was rough coming out of college. HUGELY productive and amazing to watch, mind you, just rough.
[ Edited by WRATHman44 on Mar 4, 2012 at 8:48 AM ]