Originally posted by oldman9er:
The thing with these raw WRs is, if we can get a vet FA wideout, then it makes getting a raw 1st/2nd rounder far more appealing.
True, but wouldn't you rather have someone who can contribute immediately? Why use a 1st/2nd rounder on a project?
If we re-sign Morgan or sign a vet like Meachem, then we won't need to worry about an immediate contributor anyway. Early 1st rounders almost demand an immediate starter... later 1st round or later picks can take more time and development. The Niners were a few plays away from a SB... so we don't necessarily need an immediate starter. What we need, is to make sure we have enough offensive firepower to sustain a full season drive for ring # 6.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
You are inferring more than I said. I never said that Johnson played in the triple option. I also never said that Johnson didn't have better stats than Hill. I said that CJ was picked more on physical potential than statistical production, and I stand by that. Johnson also ran a very incomplete route tree, so scouts had to assume that he could run the rest of the routes based on his observed athleticism and the workout that he presented to show his route running.
Fair enough, but I still think that analogy is a tremendous reach and doesn't really apply.
Johnson was very productive. He wasn't an unknown quantity to anywhere near the extent that Hill is. He had 1200 yards receiving and 15 TDs as a junior.
Georgia Tech's passing offense in 2006 was limited because they were a mediocre team, not because of scheme. They attempted 369 passes that year. In 2011, they attempted 167.
I would like your scenario of getting Fleener AND a WR, though. Agree with you 100% on Fleener being a great pick for us.
The number of passes thrown has absolutely nothing to do with the complexity of the passing offense or the diversity of the route tree. A weak offensive scheme can make a talented offense predictable and mediocre. There was a risk in taking him that early, because there was a risk that he would be a very gifted one trick pony. I am not calling them the same prospect, as I have said nothing about Hill going at the top of the first. I just said that if you want the guy, you probably can't wait to your next pick to get him. If you don't want him, cool.
Nobody is expecting the world to change at pick 30. That being said I think Hill adds very very good depth. At a minimum it's elite speed with some decent hands and real size. I know it seems to good to be true but I'd love to draft this kid. Serious man crush. Also the idea that he would go to a program like GT with that kind of size/speed it shows a team player attitude. I like that alot. There is no doubt that he adds some serious depth. He can be the guy to finally take the top off. I know he doesn't have alot of routes on his tape. But there is ALOT of him making nice catches and fighting for balls. Which isa very good compliment to a guy who is fast. If he doesn't get spearation horizontally he'll get it vertically.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Not fair in this case. He is a similar situation to Megatron, in that the extremely-limited passing offense he was in left a lot of questions about his game. He is a committed, determined blocker, which we KNOW because GT uses their WRs more like wide tackles. No one knew how well he would run his routes and catch the short-intermediate routes because he never did that at GT. Just like CJ, he will be a pick based on physical potential, more than production. You don't get to move your pick to where the guy is supposed to go, with an agreement from the other teams not to take him early. Now, I'm certainly not calling this guy Calvin Johnson, but the situation is similar, and the physical potential is very impressive. As a GM, if you feel he is a must-have, you need to take him when he is available. If he is just another prospect, you wait and hope he falls. He seems to have all of the traits that a team would look for, other than statistical production and experience in a diverse route tree. I would love to come away w/Fleener and Hill/Streeter/Quick somehow. I just don't know how realistic that will be (esp regarding Hill right now) after today.
Nope. Not at all true. I knew someone was going to say this. Paul Johnson was NOT at Georgia Tech when Calvin Johnson was there. Paul Johnson was at Navy.
Calvin Johnson did NOT play in a triple option offense in college. Not even close. Calvin Johnson was incredibly productive in college.
Stephen Hill, in his most productive season, caught 28 balls for 820 yards and 5 TDs.
Calvin Johnson, in his most productive season at GT, caught 76 balls for 1202 yards and 15 TDs.
There is no basis for comparison between Calvin Johnson and Stephen Hill other than the fact they're both tall, fast, and played at Georgia Tech.
Hill's 29 yard average is impressive regardless. It nearly doubles that of Megatron.
Pre-2007 draft measureables
6 ft 5 in, 239 lb
40-yd dash, Vert, Broad
4.35, 42.5 in, 11 ft 7 in
All from NFL Combine, except vertical and broad jump (which are from Georgia Tech pro day).
I think the point here isn't that Hill is the next Calvin Johnson. The point is as some have said he has CJ potential. He just added an 11'10' broad. I also think the point is that he isn't some Al davis burner. He's 6-4 legit. He has some of the best numbers all around and yes some unkowns on routes. His workout is going to make people take a look at him. I wouldn't consider it lucky at all to go in the bottom of the first. There are plenty of guys with 4.3 speed today. But nobody with that size. THe other thing is everyone wants to talk up Sanu but that guy just had a bunch of catches vs. nobody. If it's me there is no way I'm taking Sanu at 30 if Hill is on the board.
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