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Alshon Jeffrery, WR, South Carolina

Originally posted by Travisty13:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
He went from the assumed biggest (as far as weight) receiver in the draft to one of the most fit. All of the following others weighed in heavier:

Michael Floyd, Notre Dame - 6-3 220
Juron Criner, Arizona - 6-3 224
Gerell Robinson, Arizona St. - 6-3 227
Dwight Jones, North Carolina - 6-3 230
Jeff Fuller, Texas A&M - 6-4 223
Brian Quick, Appalachian St. - 6-4 220
Rishard Matthews, Nevada - 6-0 217

Can't really call him fat anymore.

Stephen Hill - Georgia Tech - 6'4 215



Was talking about receivers that weighed in *heavier*.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Feb 24, 2012 at 4:20 PM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Travisty13:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
He went from the assumed biggest (as far as weight) receiver in the draft to one of the most fit. All of the following others weighed in heavier:

Michael Floyd, Notre Dame - 6-3 220
Juron Criner, Arizona - 6-3 224
Gerell Robinson, Arizona St. - 6-3 227
Dwight Jones, North Carolina - 6-3 230
Jeff Fuller, Texas A&M - 6-4 223
Brian Quick, Appalachian St. - 6-4 220
Rishard Matthews, Nevada - 6-0 217

Can't really call him fat anymore.

Stephen Hill - Georgia Tech - 6'4 215



Was talking about receivers that weighed in *heavier*.

I know. Just wanted to show that Hill is both taller and leaner.
Originally posted by Travisty13:
I know. Just wanted to show that Hill is both taller and leaner.

imo that seems a bit too skinny i would like hill to be about 5-10 pounds heavier
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
imo that seems a bit too skinny i would like hill to be about 5-10 pounds heavier

That's what NFL strength and conditioning coaches are for. They'll find the perfect weight they'd want him to play at, as to not lose any speed and still stay healthy.
Originally posted by sfout:
Just watched youtube highlights of the bowl game. I think Jeffery will easily run a 4.55, on the one play he knew for sure he was going deep he gained about 3 yards of separation on Dennard, only reason Dennard caught up was because Jeffery randomly turned and ran for the far pylon rather then running straight for the endzone.

That weight drop absolutely shocked me, 6-3 216?!?!? After seeing that I'd honestly be surprised if he wasn't one of the more in shape big WRs in Indy. The weight drop is a great double edged sword for him, shows his work ethic is amazing and shows how quickly he can get in football shape. The bowl game wasn't even a full months ago and he dropped 18+ pounds(listed weight was 233).

I think it cuts against him too. My hat's off to the kid for getting into that kind of shape, but it also shows just how easily he could have been in shape this whole time. That doesn't paint a flattering image of his off-season work ethic. Of course he could have discovered a love for nutrition and intense off-season conditioning. Either that, or someone convinced him that he could work his butt off for a few weeks and make a ton of money. I don't know which it is, but I probably wouldn't take that risk if I was picking, even if I felt confident that he would ever get into or out of routes quickly.
i dont think wright falls neither does blackmon

i think/hope that the one of alshon jeffery or floyd falls to us at 30
I don't know why everyone is acting like Alshon is suddenly a top wr because he didn't come in overweight.

If he looked sloppy at his playing weight for his entire collegiate career, has zero suddenness to his game, gets no seperation and lacks top end speed, why is all suddenly erased when he sheds a few pounds for the combine when so much money is on the line? If anything it's selfish that he couldn't be in shape for his college team, but can when he stands to profit immensely off of it.

If he needs that much motivation to not be the Humburgler, who is to say he will stay motivated and be in shape when he gets drafted and receives an NFL contract.

And once again, how does this in any way erase the fact that he isn't sudden, does not have speed, and cannot separate? I would draft Alshon Jeffery as a TE in the second round, I wouldn't draft him as a WR in the first two rounds. Alshon has the natural frame to grow into a perfect TE body, the strength to stay in and block, and the route running savy/jump ball ability to become a Brandon Pettigrew type of player. He just doesn't possess the attributes to beat a NFL team's number 1 cb.
Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
I don't know why everyone is acting like Alshon is suddenly a top wr because he didn't come in overweight.

If he looked sloppy at his playing weight for his entire collegiate career, has zero suddenness to his game, gets no seperation and lacks top end speed, why is all suddenly erased when he sheds a few pounds for the combine when so much money is on the line? If anything it's selfish that he couldn't be in shape for his college team, but can when he stands to profit immensely off of it.

If he needs that much motivation to not be the Humburgler, who is to say he will stay motivated and be in shape when he gets drafted and receives an NFL contract.

And once again, how does this in any way erase the fact that he isn't sudden, does not have speed, and cannot separate? I would draft Alshon Jeffery as a TE in the second round, I wouldn't draft him as a WR in the first two rounds. Alshon has the natural frame to grow into a perfect TE body, the strength to stay in and block, and the route running savy/jump ball ability to become a Brandon Pettigrew type of player. He just doesn't possess the attributes to beat a NFL team's number 1 cb.
?


he dominated in the SEC...
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
I don't know why everyone is acting like Alshon is suddenly a top wr because he didn't come in overweight.

If he looked sloppy at his playing weight for his entire collegiate career, has zero suddenness to his game, gets no seperation and lacks top end speed, why is all suddenly erased when he sheds a few pounds for the combine when so much money is on the line? If anything it's selfish that he couldn't be in shape for his college team, but can when he stands to profit immensely off of it.

If he needs that much motivation to not be the Humburgler, who is to say he will stay motivated and be in shape when he gets drafted and receives an NFL contract.

And once again, how does this in any way erase the fact that he isn't sudden, does not have speed, and cannot separate? I would draft Alshon Jeffery as a TE in the second round, I wouldn't draft him as a WR in the first two rounds. Alshon has the natural frame to grow into a perfect TE body, the strength to stay in and block, and the route running savy/jump ball ability to become a Brandon Pettigrew type of player. He just doesn't possess the attributes to beat a NFL team's number 1 cb.
?


he dominated in the SEC...

I take it you never watched Dwayne Jarrett or Mike Williams play college football?

Dwayne Jarrett received for over 200 yards and 2 td's while matched up against Leon Hall in his final collegiate game. Leon Hall is a better corner than any cb that Alshon dominated. Dwayne Jarrett was also more sudden and got better separation than Alshon. I agree that Alshon is a 1st or 2nd day talent, I just don't think his best NFL position is WR. I also don't think he stands a chance of going before our pick.

Looking at Dwayne Jarrett/Mike Williams and Alshon Jeffery, the few differences I see are that Jeffery is thicker, slower and less sudden. While each player is unique, I don't understand how you can burn a first rounder on a player with weight problems, no suddeness, and that so closely resembles the playing style/skillset of two former busts. Yes he has production, a great set of hands, and the ability to get the ball at its highest point, but there are too many good players in the first round of the draft without those red flags.

[ Edited by 49oz2superbowl on Feb 24, 2012 at 7:11 PM ]
Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
I don't know why everyone is acting like Alshon is suddenly a top wr because he didn't come in overweight.

If he looked sloppy at his playing weight for his entire collegiate career, has zero suddenness to his game, gets no seperation and lacks top end speed, why is all suddenly erased when he sheds a few pounds for the combine when so much money is on the line? If anything it's selfish that he couldn't be in shape for his college team, but can when he stands to profit immensely off of it.

If he needs that much motivation to not be the Humburgler, who is to say he will stay motivated and be in shape when he gets drafted and receives an NFL contract.

And once again, how does this in any way erase the fact that he isn't sudden, does not have speed, and cannot separate? I would draft Alshon Jeffery as a TE in the second round, I wouldn't draft him as a WR in the first two rounds. Alshon has the natural frame to grow into a perfect TE body, the strength to stay in and block, and the route running savy/jump ball ability to become a Brandon Pettigrew type of player. He just doesn't possess the attributes to beat a NFL team's number 1 cb.

Not feeling this post at all. The 1 season where Jeffrey got decent QB play he dominated SEC #1 corners all season long. He's got ridiculously long arms and he only weighs 215, the guy is not a TE. He's a tall WR. He's going to get better at route running with pro coaching and he's got fantastic hands and he's good at dragging defenders around. The guy's a beast and he's atleast a 2nd round WR, should be a first IMO, but might not because of the depth at the position in this class.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Travisty13:
I know. Just wanted to show that Hill is both taller and leaner.

imo that seems a bit too skinny i would like hill to be about 5-10 pounds heavier

6-4 215 isn't exactly skinny. It's just right, especially when you look at Hill's build. Leaner doesn't really mean skinnier, just means more toned/cut/less bulk to him.

See: A.J. Green - 6-4 207.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Feb 24, 2012 at 7:09 PM ]
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
I don't know why everyone is acting like Alshon is suddenly a top wr because he didn't come in overweight.

If he looked sloppy at his playing weight for his entire collegiate career, has zero suddenness to his game, gets no seperation and lacks top end speed, why is all suddenly erased when he sheds a few pounds for the combine when so much money is on the line? If anything it's selfish that he couldn't be in shape for his college team, but can when he stands to profit immensely off of it.

If he needs that much motivation to not be the Humburgler, who is to say he will stay motivated and be in shape when he gets drafted and receives an NFL contract.

And once again, how does this in any way erase the fact that he isn't sudden, does not have speed, and cannot separate? I would draft Alshon Jeffery as a TE in the second round, I wouldn't draft him as a WR in the first two rounds. Alshon has the natural frame to grow into a perfect TE body, the strength to stay in and block, and the route running savy/jump ball ability to become a Brandon Pettigrew type of player. He just doesn't possess the attributes to beat a NFL team's number 1 cb.

Not feeling this post at all. The 1 season where Jeffrey got decent QB play he dominated SEC #1 corners all season long. He's got ridiculously long arms and he only weighs 215, the guy is not a TE. He's a tall WR. He's going to get better at route running with pro coaching and he's got fantastic hands and he's good at dragging defenders around. The guy's a beast and he's atleast a 2nd round WR, should be a first IMO, but might not because of the depth at the position in this class.

There is absolutely no way that Alshon weighed 215 while playing last season. He was easily 230.

Why would he play at such a sloppy weight? Anyone can do the right thing for the combine, whose to say he is going to maintain weight his entire NFL career.

Weight aside, suddenness can't be coached. It is a skill. A skill that Alshon Jeffery doesn't have and never will.

Agree to disagree on his NFL prospects. Time will tell who is right and I will gladly eat crow if he becomes a solid number 1 wr.
Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
I take it you never watched Dwayne Jarrett or Mike Williams play college football?

Dwayne Jarrett received for over 200 yards and 2 td's while matched up against Leon Hall in his final collegiate game. Leon Hall is a better corner than any cb that Alshon dominated. Dwayne Jarrett was also more sudden and got better separation than Alshon. I agree that Alshon is a 1st or 2nd day talent, I just don't think his best NFL position is WR. I also don't think he stands a chance of going before our pick.

Looking at Dwayne Jarrett/Mike Williams and Alshon Jeffery, the few differences I see are that Jeffery is thicker, slower and less sudden. While each player is unique, I don't understand how you can burn a first rounder on a player with weight problems, no suddeness, and that so closely resembles the playing style/skillset of two former busts. Yes he has production, a great set of hands, and the ability to get the ball at its highest point, but there are too many good players at that juncture in the draft without those red flags.


I'll poke a hole in your argument that all guys with that skill-set are guaranteed busts: Brandon Marshall.

And two more: Marques Colston and Vincent Jackson.

None of the three guys I listed have good suddenness. They're big, physical, and know how to use their bodies to shield DBs.
[ Edited by JamesGatz83 on Feb 24, 2012 at 7:12 PM ]
Using Dwayne Jarrett as an example is just so off-base it's crazy.

Jarrett had documented terrible practice habits, a legitimate lack of care at times, and was known to have some attitude problems. His work ethic was beyond poor. He wasn't just a failure because of those things either, but they contributed. Jarrett, despite his size, lacked NFL-caliber strength, so not only was he zero threat after the catch because he couldn't break or elude tackles, he had no ability to separate from press-coverage and get off jams at the line of scrimmage. Put that together with no speed, 4.62 (Pro Day) - 4.7 range, and you've got a receiver that not only cannot get downfield, but he can't even break away from defenders when he does get the ball. You get a guy that overall simply doesn't have the collective pieces to succeed in the NFL.. and unfortunately, nor the desire to work to even attempt to attain any of them.

I am well-document as not the biggest fan of Jeffery, but to compare him to Jarrett is silly. They are nothing alike aside from having size and being good college players. Jeffery has many strengths that Dwayne never had.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Feb 24, 2012 at 7:33 PM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Travisty13:
I know. Just wanted to show that Hill is both taller and leaner.

imo that seems a bit too skinny i would like hill to be about 5-10 pounds heavier

6-4 215 isn't exactly skinny. It's just right, especially when you look at Hill's build. Leaner doesn't really mean skinnier, just means more toned/cut/less bulk to him.

See: A.J. Green - 6-4 207.

true

depends how he looks

i like hilla lot but if were getting hi we need a more polished WR in 1st (alshon jeffery floyd ow wright) in the 1st round or a FA like Vjax bowe wayne etc

hill is not only not a day 1 starter but he will need a year at the minumum