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Coby Fleener - TE Stanford

Originally posted by jreff22:
We have draft how many WR's the past few years.....how many made the probowl with us?

6 17 182 Ronald Johnson WR USC
6 37 206 Kyle Williams WR Arizona State
1 10 10 Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech
6 8 174 Josh Morgan WR 6-1 215 Virginia Tech
3 12 76 Jason Hill WR Washington State
3 84 Brandon Williams WR Wisconsin
538 (174)Rasheed Marshall WR West Virginia
79 (223)Marcus Maxwell WR Oregon
Round 1, Pick 31: Rashaun Woods
Round 3, Pick 14: Derrick Hamilton

So basically you're showing us that it doesn't matter where we select them at they will suck.

Because that's basically all you've proved there.

Scout them all and if one grades out high enough draft them. Otherwise move on.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
This is what you claim but it doesn't mean that he can't beat a safety. You bringing up his 6'0 doesn't mean that he can't beat a safety. Most safeties are around 6' -6'3, some are even under 6'. There are only 2 safety on defense so if like you say they put a safety on Walker and 1 on VD, our receivers are 1 on 1. But wait we don't have a big, fast WR to beat the CB outright or use his size and body position for a jump ball. We need a WR more than a TE.

Meh. 49ers moved the ball down the field pretty well, they struggled when things tightened up, especially in the red-zone. That is where a big physical target like Fleener would make a huge impact rather than throwing out yet another receiver and hoping for miracles.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by jreff22:
We have draft how many WR's the past few years.....how many made the probowl with us?

6 17 182 Ronald Johnson WR USC
6 37 206 Kyle Williams WR Arizona State
1 10 10 Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech
6 8 174 Josh Morgan WR 6-1 215 Virginia Tech
3 12 76 Jason Hill WR Washington State
3 84 Brandon Williams WR Wisconsin
538 (174)Rasheed Marshall WR West Virginia
79 (223)Marcus Maxwell WR Oregon
Round 1, Pick 31: Rashaun Woods
Round 3, Pick 14: Derrick Hamilton

So basically you're showing us that it doesn't matter where we select them at they will suck.

Because that's basically all you've proved there.

Scout them all and if one grades out high enough draft them. Otherwise move on.

We have drafted poorly and the thought that going outside the first round is safe sounds great but in our case we have failed more then we have succeeded. If Hill is the highest graded WR we have and he is there, you take him.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Phoenix dude, you've been on this thread since like 3PM. Go watch a movie or something bud.

Dude, why do you even care what anyone does, if you don't like what I have to say, go piss off to another section of the forum instead of crying like a little girl. You've been on here considerably longer than me today, does that mean you've been sitting at your computer the whole time? Absolutely not.

Seriously man.
Originally posted by jreff22:
We have drafted poorly and the thought that going outside the first round is safe sounds great but in our case we have failed more then we have succeeded. If Hill is the highest graded WR we have and he is there, you take him.

You got 2 1st rounders on that list there and they have a combined 0 Pro Bowls.

Personally I think Green Bay and Pittsburgh have the best strategy. Use a 2nd to 4th rounder every year. I'm definetily not against taking Hill the thing is I'm not a scout so I have no grade on him so I'm not saying he's the best route to take.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
You got 2 1st rounders on that list there and they have a combined 0 Pro Bowls.

Personally I think Green Bay and Pittsburgh have the best strategy. Use a 2nd to 4th rounder every year. I'm definetily not against taking Hill the thing is I'm not a scout so I have no grade on him so I'm not saying he's the best route to take.

This, more often than not, picking outside of the Top 5, you're likely to bust with WR's in the first round. Outside of the Top 5-8 picks, the majority of top WR's were all later round picks and in some cases even undrafted.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by jreff22:
We have drafted poorly and the thought that going outside the first round is safe sounds great but in our case we have failed more then we have succeeded. If Hill is the highest graded WR we have and he is there, you take him.

You got 2 1st rounders on that list there and they have a combined 0 Pro Bowls.

Personally I think Green Bay and Pittsburgh have the best strategy. Use a 2nd to 4th rounder every year. I'm definetily not against taking Hill the thing is I'm not a scout so I have no grade on him so I'm not saying he's the best route to take.

I still think the BPA strat is the best but if we are debating between WR and TE I prefer the WR. I did a poll at the end of the season on what the biggest need was and WR came in the 1st. Moss is not long term, Manningham is not a #1, Swain is garbage, Crabs is not a #1 and will bolt after his contract is up, Ginn is not a reliable WR, and I hate Williams.

We need somebody...I have always said Hill is IMO a 36-42 range prospect but if we cant trade back you suck it up and pull the trigger. The option is reach a bit or take the leftovers at 60....the talent wont be close.
Originally posted by jreff22:
I still think the BPA strat is the best but if we are debating between WR and TE I prefer the WR. I did a poll at the end of the season on what the biggest need was and WR came in the 1st. Moss is not long term, Manningham is not a #1, Swain is garbage, Crabs is not a #1 and will bolt after his contract is up, Ginn is not a reliable WR, and I hate Williams.

We need somebody...I have always said Hill is IMO a 36-42 range prospect but if we cant trade back you suck it up and pull the trigger. The option is reach a bit or take the leftovers at 60....the talent wont be close.

Yes it will, not sure what the heck you're talking about, this is one of the deeper drafts at WR and most of the value is in Rounds 2-4. You'll have guys like Marvin Jones, Marvin McNutt, Brian Quick, Greg Childs and many more available later on who are highly talented and and in some cases, arguably more ready to contribute, especially in the case of Jones. There should be no need to reach for a WR in a draft that is loaded with them.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by jreff22:
I still think the BPA strat is the best but if we are debating between WR and TE I prefer the WR. I did a poll at the end of the season on what the biggest need was and WR came in the 1st. Moss is not long term, Manningham is not a #1, Swain is garbage, Crabs is not a #1 and will bolt after his contract is up, Ginn is not a reliable WR, and I hate Williams.

We need somebody...I have always said Hill is IMO a 36-42 range prospect but if we cant trade back you suck it up and pull the trigger. The option is reach a bit or take the leftovers at 60....the talent wont be close.

Yes it will, not sure what the heck you're talking about, this is one of the deeper drafts at WR and most of the value is in Rounds 2-4. You'll have guys like Marvin Jones, Marvin McNutt, Brian Quick, Greg Childs and many more available later on who are highly talented and and in some cases, arguably more ready to contribute, especially in the case of Jones. There should be no need to reach for a WR in a draft that is loaded with them.

If that was the case they would be higher rated. Just because it is deep doesn't mean the talent is the same. And sitting at 60 and 90 you either reach or pray somebody falls, no player is guaranteed after our first pick.
Originally posted by jreff22:
I still think the BPA strat is the best but if we are debating between WR and TE I prefer the WR. I did a poll at the end of the season on what the biggest need was and WR came in the 1st. Moss is not long term, Manningham is not a #1, Swain is garbage, Crabs is not a #1 and will bolt after his contract is up, Ginn is not a reliable WR, and I hate Williams.

We need somebody...I have always said Hill is IMO a 36-42 range prospect but if we cant trade back you suck it up and pull the trigger. The option is reach a bit or take the leftovers at 60....the talent wont be close.


The talent is always closer than you think. They key is finding the right guy. I'm not advocating for Streeter just making a point that he's fairly close in measurables compared to Hill.

Other times it's the Chris Givens at 5'11 198 pounds and 4.41 speed that actually is that dynamic guy we could be looking for. Or Marvin Jones.

The notion that you can't find guys outside the 1st round is ridiculous. See Pittsburgh and Green Bay.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
The talent is always closer than you think. They key is finding the right guy. I'm not advocating for Streeter just making a point that he's fairly close in measurables compared to Hill.

Other times it's the Chris Givens at 5'11 198 pounds and 4.41 speed that actually is that dynamic guy we could be looking for. Or Marvin Jones.

The notion that you can't find guys outside the 1st round is ridiculous. See Pittsburgh and Green Bay.

You can only find good receivers in the 1st round....except for Jordy Nelson, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Victor Cruz, Steve Smith, Wes Welker, Marques Colston, Anquan Boldin, Pierre Garcon, Vincent Jackson, Brandon Marshall and many others........yeah except for those guys, you can only find good WR's in the 1st round.






Additionally WR's are the least likely of all positions to start as rookies and the most likely to become a bust, which is why the constant annual drafting of WR's by Pittsburgh and GB has been so effective.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by jreff22:
I still think the BPA strat is the best but if we are debating between WR and TE I prefer the WR. I did a poll at the end of the season on what the biggest need was and WR came in the 1st. Moss is not long term, Manningham is not a #1, Swain is garbage, Crabs is not a #1 and will bolt after his contract is up, Ginn is not a reliable WR, and I hate Williams.

We need somebody...I have always said Hill is IMO a 36-42 range prospect but if we cant trade back you suck it up and pull the trigger. The option is reach a bit or take the leftovers at 60....the talent wont be close.


The talent is always closer than you think. They key is finding the right guy. I'm not advocating for Streeter just making a point that he's fairly close in measurables compared to Hill.

Other times it's the Chris Givens at 5'11 198 pounds and 4.41 speed that actually is that dynamic guy we could be looking for. Or Marvin Jones.

The notion that you can't find guys outside the 1st round is ridiculous. See Pittsburgh and Green Bay.

But they have normally had a really good guy always on the roster then can afford to find more help later on. For argumnets sake IMO we have nothing above #2's and #3's.

Personally I wanted to draft 2 WR's....Hill and Hilton for instance would make me super happy.
Originally posted by jreff22:
But they have normally had a really good guy always on the roster then can afford to find more help later on. For argumnets sake IMO we have nothing above #2's and #3's.

Personally I wanted to draft 2 WR's....Hill and Hilton for instance would make me super happy.

Guess what, the number of actual #1's is few and far between, you have guys like Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson and Megatron that get snatched up early on in the draft....and then the rest of it generally becomes a crap shoot and you're just as likely to pull a #1 guy late in the draft once you've gotten past those few guys. I'd be happy with a solid guy like Marvin Jones that isn't spectacular but has no real weaknesses to his game and he'd be available in the 2nd round. Most of the guys you're going to get in the late 1st, and I'm assuming that Hill will be gone, are going to basically be possession receivers, Randle, Jeffery, Sanu...etc....or more of what the 49ers have.


I also doubt they will draft 2 WR's. With Crabtree, Manningham, Moss, Ginn, Kyle Williams and a rookie, there's no way they are going to carry 7 WR's on the roster.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by jreff22:
But they have normally had a really good guy always on the roster then can afford to find more help later on. For argumnets sake IMO we have nothing above #2's and #3's.

Personally I wanted to draft 2 WR's....Hill and Hilton for instance would make me super happy.

Guess what, the number of actual #1's is few and far between, you have guys like Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson and Megatron that get snatched up early on in the draft....and then the rest of it generally becomes a crap shoot and you're just as likely to pull a #1 guy late in the draft once you've gotten past those few guys. I'd be happy with a solid guy like Marvin Jones that isn't spectacular but has no real weaknesses to his game and he'd be available in the 2nd round. Most of the guys you're going to get in the late 1st, and I'm assuming that Hill will be gone, are going to basically be possession receivers, Randle, Jeffery, Sanu...etc....or more of what the 49ers have.


I also doubt they will draft 2 WR's. With Crabtree, Manningham, Moss, Ginn, Kyle Williams and a rookie, there's no way they are going to carry 7 WR's on the roster.

I dont see 2 guys now with Ginn back.

Bowe
Green
Wayne
Fitzgerald
C Johnson
A Johnson
Cruz
Marshall
Colston
Steve Smith
Wallace
Jennings
Vincent Jackson
White

etc etc

A lot of teams have 1 real solid guy and another good compliment. We have a compliment and no solid guy.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
This is what you claim but it doesn't mean that he can't beat a safety. You bringing up his 6'0 doesn't mean that he can't beat a safety. Most safeties are around 6' -6'3, some are even under 6'. There are only 2 safety on defense so if like you say they put a safety on Walker and 1 on VD, our receivers are 1 on 1. But wait we don't have a big, fast WR to beat the CB outright or use his size and body position for a jump ball. We need a WR more than a TE.

Meh. 49ers moved the ball down the field pretty well, they struggled when things tightened up, especially in the red-zone. That is where a big physical target like Fleener would make a huge impact rather than throwing out yet another receiver and hoping for miracles.


LOL, did u say Fleener is physcial? WOW. Actually, he's not physcial or big. Just tall and a little skinny for a TE.
[ Edited by kronik on Apr 24, 2012 at 9:35 PM ]