if the "plan" is to tank 2011 to get luck in 2012

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
People were furious that I actively rooted against the Niners last season until they fired Singletary. It is hard to argue against the logic of tanking this meaningless year to get a player who could possibly fit a bunch more rings on the other hand. As Singletary was that bad, Luck is that good.

This is truly weird. I actually believe that you are serious.

So do you root against the 49ers again this year, because Baakle is that bad, and Luck is that good.

Originally posted by buck:
This is truly weird. I actually believe that you are serious.

So do you root against the 49ers again this year, because Baakle is that bad, and Luck is that good.

No, I root that the light finally turns on for Alex Smith, and the team plays great. I had zero confidence in Nolan and Singletary. I have a shade of confidence in Baalke that he can figure out how to make better player personnel decisions in the future. And, my criticism of Baalke is also attached to the York's, who may be limiting Baalke's hand.

That being said, if the team starts off slowly in 2011, I'd rather us continue tanking than win meaningless games at the end of the year to lose the shot at Luck. I know it is warped, but think of the difference a superstar QB makes to our team.

Our chances of getting Luck have now dropped considerably. Apparently no one told the 49ers they are supposed to lose. (:

Originally posted by fryet:
Our chances of getting Luck have now dropped considerably. Apparently no one told the GINN that the 49ersy are supposed to lose. (:

Fixed.

Our chances our less now. I gotta admit that Ted Ginn won't do that every game though. We got kind of lucky. Our D faded badly at the end again. Like last year in the 4th quarter. And our offense wasn't super by far all day. This team is capable of losing a lot of games. Yesterday we got lucky and Ted Ginn bailed us out.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by buck:
This is truly weird. I actually believe that you are serious.

So do you root against the 49ers again this year, because Baakle is that bad, and Luck is that good.

No, I root that the light finally turns on for Alex Smith, and the team plays great. I had zero confidence in Nolan and Singletary. I have a shade of confidence in Baalke that he can figure out how to make better player personnel decisions in the future. And, my criticism of Baalke is also attached to the York's, who may be limiting Baalke's hand.

That being said, if the team starts off slowly in 2011, I'd rather us continue tanking than win meaningless games at the end of the year to lose the shot at Luck. I know it is warped, but think of the difference a superstar QB makes to our team.

I appreciate both the tone and content of your response, but I will wait a day or two to respond. After work, I went out for super and had a few too many pisco sours, and I in no shape for a thoughtful answer. Pisco, by the way, is like rum, or maybe tequila, but made from grapes.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by buck:
This is truly weird. I actually believe that you are serious.

So do you root against the 49ers again this year, because Baakle is that bad, and Luck is that good.

No, I root that the light finally turns on for Alex Smith, and the team plays great. I had zero confidence in Nolan and Singletary. I have a shade of confidence in Baalke that he can figure out how to make better player personnel decisions in the future. And, my criticism of Baalke is also attached to the York's, who may be limiting Baalke's hand.

That being said, if the team starts off slowly in 2011, I'd rather us continue tanking than win meaningless games at the end of the year to lose the shot at Luck. I know it is warped, but think of the difference a superstar QB makes to our team.

I couldn't agree with you more. We are in no way shape or form a Super Bowl contender. If we make the playoffs with our current roster, it is merely a result of the division we play in. Unless Alex Smith somehow flips a switch and becomes the player we drafted him to be, I want us to lose. Losing is what triggers change (see Mike Singletary). People on this board that say we aren't fans for rooting against them this season are clouded by shortsightedness.

When I root against the 49ers, I am rooting for the franchise. I am rooting for the franchise to win as many games as possible in my lifespan. The most direct way for that to happen is to land Andrew Luck in the draft. It is an investment, rather than immediate gratification. Three years from now when we're watching Andrew Luck turn around a franchise and take his team deep into the playoffs will we say "Boy, I'm so glad we beat a miserable Seattle team due to 2 special teams touchdowns. It was totally worth taking us out of contention to land Andrew Luck."

No, Andrew Luck is not a guaranteed player, but he is the closest thing to a guaranteed franchise quarterback to ever enter the NFL draft. As a RS freshman he showed the poise, pocket presence, accuracy and field vision of a first round pick. I would go as far to say that if he stays healthy and enters an above average offensive system, he is guaranteed to be a franchise and Pro Bowl qb. When you land a qb of that caliber, you have him for 15 years. That is 15 years of being able to build around the core of our franchise, with offensive consistency, not constantly wasting draft picks on stopgaps or "high potential" players. Look at the Colts without Peyton Manning. They are a below average team without Manning. All they've needed to keep them a perrenial playoff team was one first overall pick in the right draft. A first overall pick like this hasn't come out in 15 years (arguably ever). This is the right time to get that player. This is the right time to turn our franchise into the Colt's of the past 10 years (only arguably better with the supporting talent on our roster, making us a much more well-rounded team than the colts ever were).

I am sick of going the past 8 years without a franchise qb. I'm sick of watching teams within our division go from great to bad back to good, while we've been stuck in a never-ending rebuild. We are a franchise qb away from being a deep playoff contender, and we are a losing season away from getting a franchise qb. Fans that don't see it that way aren't any more a fan than I am. In fact I would argue that you and I are bigger fans than they are. We are willing to sacrifice the immediate gratification of wins for the long term gain and greater good of the team. This season is a battle. Why push to win a battle (try to squeak in to the playoffs only to be eliminated in the first round) at the expense of winning the war (winning a super bowl in the next 10 years)?

^^^Well fkn said!!!

but no matter how you put it, you will be prosecuted for "rooting against" the team.

Cool, I found the zone's butthole.

From what I have seen from Kellen Moore it wouldn't be all that bad to get this guy!!! he is a surgeon and even lost Young, Pettis, and his OC!!! With all of that is still putting up great numbers so far. Other options in my opinion would be to trade Gore or Crabtree mid season and get another 1st round pick to possibly move up and get Luck, or Moore next year and team him up with Blackmon!! I mean why not? Gore is closing in on 30, multiple surgeries, and Hunter is looking pretty good to me!!! Go young and build through the draft.. Eagles west!! If this were our starting line-up next year I would be pumped... K.Moore, Hunter, Braylon, Justin Blackmon, VD. That is a pretty sweet line-up!! wishful thinking, but very possible with having 2 1st round picks!!!

Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
I couldn't agree with you more. We are in no way shape or form a Super Bowl contender. If we make the playoffs with our current roster, it is merely a result fo the division we play in. Unless Alex Smith somehow flips a switch and becomes the player we drafted him to be, I want us to lose. Losing is what triggers change (see Mike Singletary). People on this board that say we aren't fans for rooting against them in certain games are clouded by shortsightedness.

When I root against the 49ers, I am rooting for the franchise. I am rooting for the franchise to win as many games as possible in my lifespan. The most direct way for that to happen is to land Andrew Luck in the draft. It is an investment, rather than immediate gratification. Three years from now when we're watching Andrew Luck turn around a franchise and take his team deep into the playoffs will we say "Boy, I'm so glad we beat a miserable Seattle team due to 2 special teams touchdowns. It was totally worth taking us out of contention to land Andrew Luck."

No, Andrew Luck is not a guaranteed player, but he is the closest thing to a guaranteed franchise quarterback to ever enter the NFL draft. As a RS freshman he showed the poise, pocket presence, accuracy and field vision of a first round pick. I would go as far to say that if he stays healthy and enters an above average offensive system, he IS guaranteed to be a franchise and Pro Bowl qb. When you land a qb of that caliber, you have him for 15 years. That is 15 years of being able to build around the core of our franchise, with offensive consistency, not constantly wasting draft picks on stopgaps or "high potential" players. Look at the Colts without Peyton Manning. They are a well below average team without Manning, all they've needed to keep them a perrenial playoff team was one first overall pick in the right draft. A first overall pick like this hasn't come out in 15 years (arguably ever0. This is the right time to get that player. This is the right time to turn our franchise into the Colt's of the past 10 years (only arguably better with the supporting talent on our roster, making us a much more well-rounded team than the colts ever were).

I am sick of going the past 8 years without a franchise qb. I'm sick of watching teams within our division go from great to bad back to good, while we've been stuck in a never-ending rebuild. We are a franchise qb away from being a deep playoff contender, and we are a losing season away from getting a franchise qb. Fans that don't see it that way aren't any more a fan than I am. In fact I would argue that you and I are bigger fans than they are. We willing to sacrifice wins and short term gain for the long term and greater good of the team. This season is a battle. Why push to win a battle (try to squeak in to the playoffs) at the expense of winning the war (winning a super bowl in the next 10 years)?

ya I feel the same way it's pointless to win this year knowing that next year the situation could be bad again I mean there's no guarantee Braylon Edwards pans out, he wasn't pursued for a reason and Carlos Rogers is no lock to return either. If Smith tanks or he does well does he leave? I'm sorry but I can't buy into Kaepernick and Tolzien as the future. Next season the draft has a good QB class even if it isn't Luck, I would be happy with Jones or Barkley as well. Kaepernick is a project, draft picks are far from sure things but a project and undrafted free agent are much less likely to succeed. I don't want to buy a division title and end up becoming mediocre again, the 49ers have been losing all these years but when they finally have a chance to get a real franchise QB they start winning. If the 49ers finish .500 or better this season, they'll lose again next year when it doesn't matter anymore.

Lets bring back TDon. He was great at losing.

You carry on cheering for you team to lose. Thats the way to develop a young team.

Losers lose.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by buck:
This is truly weird. I actually believe that you are serious.

So do you root against the 49ers again this year, because Baakle is that bad, and Luck is that good.

No, I root that the light finally turns on for Alex Smith, and the team plays great. I had zero confidence in Nolan and Singletary. I have a shade of confidence in Baalke that he can figure out how to make better player personnel decisions in the future. And, my criticism of Baalke is also attached to the York's, who may be limiting Baalke's hand.

That being said, if the team starts off slowly in 2011, I'd rather us continue tanking than win meaningless games at the end of the year to lose the shot at Luck. I know it is warped, but think of the difference a superstar QB makes to our team.

I appreciate both the tone and content of your response, but I will wait a day or two to respond. After work, I went out for super and had a few too many pisco sours, and I in no shape for a thoughtful answer. Pisco, by the way, is like rum, or maybe tequila, but made from grapes.

We agree on some points.

Like you, I hope that the light comes on for Alex. I will be happy if he does three things: increases his completion%; reduces his turnovers; and increases the number of first downs.

I would also like to see the team play great, but given the circumstances I will very happy if the team plays well.
If the team plays well, we will have a winning season.

We disagree on other points. in general, I do not think there are any meaningless games, and at this conjuncture every game the 49ers play has meaning.
When a team is working itself up from the bottom, the team needs to improve and learn. This learning and improvement is mainly measured in the games played--in every game, all year.

I played for a perennial loser. We decided that we would become a winning team. It took three years, but we began a winning team and got the city championship. Believe me, every practice, every snap and every game had meaning. Those who claim that winning is everything or the only thing are not be being realistic.

The shade of confidence that you have in Baalke is hard to see. Most of your posts about Baalke have been, to say the least, negative. Beyond being negative, your attitude seems blatantly unfair. Baalke has done some things very well. First, he did hire Harbaugh. If one game means anything, the decision to dump money in the lap of McDonald seems to have been a good one. At this point, his free agent signings (Edwards, Rogers, and Whitner) seem positive. I wanted him to sign Franklin, but now it seems that Baalke was right to let him go. I liked his first draft more than you, but you and I both know that it is too early to judge that draft.

In fact, it is too early to judge Baalke honestly or fairly. We do not enough information, and speculation is not information. Getting that information will take time.
















.

Originally posted by English:
Lets bring back TDon. He was great at losing.

You carry on cheering for you team to lose. Thats the way to develop a young team.

Losers lose.

We aren't talking about squandering our future through wasted draft picks and free agent signings. We are talking about investing in our future this season by adding what will become a top 5 player in the nfl to our roster (at the most important position in football). If wins are so important to you, let me ask you one thing. Would you cut Patrick Willis if it meant us beating the Dallas Cowboys this week? No. Andrew Luck would be more important to this franchise than Patrick Willis and the only thing keeping him from being a 49er is winning games that have no impact on a superbowl or even deep playoff run. So yes, I would rather lose another season than lose what would become the heart, soul, and savior of this franchise

Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:

Originally posted by English:

Lets bring back TDon. He was great at losing.

You carry on cheering for you team to lose. Thats the way to develop a young team.

Losers lose.

We aren't talking about squandering our future through wasted draft picks and free agent signings. We are talking about investing in our future this season by adding what will become a top 5 player in the nfl to our roster (at the most important position in football). If wins are so important to you, let me ask you one thing. Would you cut Patrick Willis if it meant us beating the Dallas Cowboys this week? No. Andrew Luck would be more important to this franchise than Patrick Willis and the only thing keeping him from being a 49er is winning games that have no impact on a superbowl or even deep playoff run. So yes, I would rather lose another season than lose what would become the heart, soul, and savior of this franchise

Do you really need me to give you a list of college players who were going to become the heart and soul of an NFL franchise......... And didn't?

How can you compare a kid who has never played one NFL snap with one of the top players at his position, ever?

I tired of arguing with people like you who wanted us to tank a season so we could get a running back who would transform our franchise and bring us more Superbowls. His name was Reggie Bush and they were wrong. In all probability you are too.

One thing is for sure, when you have a young team you want them to learn to win not lose.

But you carry on cheering for your team to lose.