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If you could redo one of the 49ers pick who would you take.

  • Kolohe
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  • Posts: 31,134
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by 9erred:
You CANNOT say Hankerson in the culliver spot, because Hankerson was not on the draft board, he was selected by Washington ahead of the niners pick.

If you went WR I would go with Vincent Brown, San Diego State.

Yeah Hankerson was off the board by that time. Can't take a player that's not available.

Correct me if I'm wrong, though but Hankerson was only off the board due to trading with Jacksonville. Now if we re-did this draft and didn't draft Kaepernick or traded with Jacksonville, in the 2nd I would've chose between:

Jarvis Jenkins
Marvin Austin
Brandon Harris
Akeem Ayers
Rahim Moore
Brooks Reed
Stefen Wisnieski
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
as i film you mean youtube videos?

No, I’m a draft junkie. I have a DVR just for sports that has all of the Post all-star games along with all of the SR. Bowl practices and the game itself. I also have all of the 2011 NFL Scouting Combine workouts on there. If I find a game played last year that has a player drafted by the 49ers I add those to my DVR. Like last Thur. they showed the TCU vs. Baylor game. I like to watch the games to see what the scouts saw that made them want to take that player.

Also the 49ers had the 76th pick in the 3rd round they traded down with Jacksonville to get 80th pick and a 6th round pick #182 (R. Johnson).
  • fryet
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  • Posts: 2,840
MadDog, from a need perspective, I like the 49er's draft over yours. They get the pashrushing OLB with a lot of talent at #7, a high ranked QB, and a corner in the third. With yours, I see a lot of OL drafting, which isn't a high need for the 49ers. Of course, with BPA, you don't always fill needs.
Though I thought that Aldon Smith was a solid pick and more importantly the correct pick under the circumstances, I would have tried to trade up with Cincy for Patrick Peterson. The chart says it would have cost us a third and fourth but Im a quality over quantity guy anyhow so I say it would have been worth it.
No trade down in the 3rd and take Hankerson, then in the 6th instead of Ronald Johnson take Powe.

New QB with a new toy, and Powe to back up Soap and compete with RJF.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I'd re-do all of the Niners picks. These are the players I would have selected based on my board and team need (unfortunately excluding trades...I would have moved up to select Peterson..even if the cost was high). In having no trades, note the extra selection. I would have bypassed selecting a QB early.

Also, I strictly go by a no-cheating clause that does not look at how far a specific player mysteriously fell and selecting him in a later round before the real team selection.

1- JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin
Simply the best player on the board at the time. Since Franklin appears to be leaving, moving Soap to NT would necessitate a new DE to take over right away.

2- Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida State
I think Hudson is the best OL in the entire draft, and is a starter at guard or center.

3- Curtis Brown, CB, Texas
The team needs a cover corner, and Brown has size and speed.

4- Jordan Todman, RB, UConn
I graded Todman just slightly over Hunter, who I really like as well. Both are great value picks at this point.

4- Marcus Cannon, G, TCU
Since the Niners have a second fourth rounder, this can be a luxury pick. I'd burn it on a risk. Cannon is a starter at guard some time in the future if he can survive cancer and regain his strength. Worth the risk in the fourth round.

5- Tyrod Taylor, QB, Virginia Tech
The Niners need QB depth, and while no one expects Taylor to be a future starter, he can be a solid backup if the starter goes down for a short time.

6- Charles Clay, FB, Tulsa
A FB who can run and catch the ball. Sounds like a WCO fullback to me.

6- Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond
Team needs a second corner in this draft, and Rogers had a terrific career and offseason.

6- Jerrell Powe, NT, Mississippi
Simply a backup, toilet clogger. Every 3-4 team needs one.

7- Ugo Chinasa, OLB, Oklahoma St
Was not drafted, but a quick, strong guy who could develop into a nice role player.

7- Jeron Johnson, S, Boise St
Also not drafted, but a talented, fast guy who has a ton of experience.

7- Dane Sanzenbacher, WR, Ohio St
Competition for Williams in the slot. Sanzenbacher was a seriously clutch WR for the Buckeyes.

Cheers.

Just for jollies, here's a side by side comparison of the Niner's picks and where they were picked against your picks and where they were actually taken:

#7. Aldon Smith OLB in the 1st round vs. #11. J.J. Watt DE Houston, 1st round

#36. C. Kaepernick QB in the 2nd round vs. #55. Rodney Hudson OL, 2nd rd., Chiefs

#80. C. Culliver CB in the 3rd round vs. #95. Curtis Brown CB, 3rd rd., Steelers

#115. Kendall Hunter RB in the 4th round vs. #183. Jordon Todman RB 6th rd. Chargers

#163. Daniel Kilgore G/C in the 5th round vs. #138. Marcus Cannon G., 5th rd., Patriots

#182. Ronald Johnson WR in the 6th round vs. #180. Tyrod Taylor QB, 5th rd, Ravens

#190. Colin Jones S in the 6th round vs. #174. Charles Clay TE Dolphins, 6th

#211. Bruce Miller FB/OLB in the 7th round vs. #206. Justin Rogers CB Bills, 7th

#239. Michael Person OL in the 7th round vs. #199. Jerrell Powe NT Chiefs 6th round

#250. Curtis Holcomb CB in the 7th round vs.

Not Drafted Ugo Chinisa OLB

Not Drafted Jeron Johnson S

Not Drafted Sanzenbacher WR

Your selection of Todman, over Hunter in the 4th, appears to be a very big reach, based on where Todman was actually selected, two rounds later.

Cannon over Kilgore would be impossible, since Cannon was gone some 25 picks earlier. If Kilgore is anywhere near equal talent-wise, then the Niner's got great value with his pick.

Taylor over Johnson is a moot point, since the Niners got Kaepernick much earlier, and he appears to be a QB prospect with a much higher ceiling than Taylor.

Charles Clay, drafted as a TE by Miami at #174, was already off the board when the Niners picked at both 182 and 190, then they got their version of a FB project at #211, Bruce Miller, a hard nosed guy with some experience at TE in high school. So Baalke got Ron Johnson AND Colin Jones before picking up a "converson to FB" guy in Miller. Seems like Baalke may have beaten you by two there.

CB Justin Rogers was selected at #206, the Niner's got Holcomb at #250. Again, this appears to be a great value pick for the Niners.

You picked up a NT in the 7th. This appears to be a glaring need for the Niners, whether they resign Franklin or not.

Your three undrafted guys are all, presumably, going to be available as UDFAs once the CBA/lockout is resolved.

So overall, you got a NT in the 7th, the Niner's got a pass rushing OLB in the first. You got a backup QB project in the 5th, the Niner's got a potential starting QB project in the early 2nd.

Your draft appears to have reached for a DE in the first. If Watts was the 7th best player available, why did he last til #11? Ironic that you had Aldon Smith ranked 11th on your last big board and called his selection at #7 a "reach," yet you would take Watts at #7, when he was actually taken in the draft at #11.

If the Niner's draft was really just a C, then yours would have to be a D. I think your grade for the Niner's is too harsh, and I'd give it a B. In comparison, I think your draft would rate a C or a C+. You address all the needs, including NT, but sacrifice some quality (Kaepernick vs. Taylor is just one example) which could hurt in the long run. IMHO.

I don't think throwing a bunch of UDFAs into the mix is fair, at this point, since who the Niners will bring in as UDFA is still an unknown. You pick up a WR, S, and OLB as UDFA. Who's to say the Niners don't pick up all those guys, plus a NT as UDFA?
[ Edited by oldninerdude on May 22, 2011 at 12:39 PM ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I'd re-do all of the Niners picks. These are the players I would have selected based on my board and team need (unfortunately excluding trades...I would have moved up to select Peterson..even if the cost was high). In having no trades, note the extra selection. I would have bypassed selecting a QB early.

Also, I strictly go by a no-cheating clause that does not look at how far a specific player mysteriously fell and selecting him in a later round before the real team selection.

1- JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin
Simply the best player on the board at the time. Since Franklin appears to be leaving, moving Soap to NT would necessitate a new DE to take over right away.

2- Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida State
I think Hudson is the best OL in the entire draft, and is a starter at guard or center.

3- Curtis Brown, CB, Texas
The team needs a cover corner, and Brown has size and speed.

4- Jordan Todman, RB, UConn
I graded Todman just slightly over Hunter, who I really like as well. Both are great value picks at this point.

4- Marcus Cannon, G, TCU
Since the Niners have a second fourth rounder, this can be a luxury pick. I'd burn it on a risk. Cannon is a starter at guard some time in the future if he can survive cancer and regain his strength. Worth the risk in the fourth round.

5- Tyrod Taylor, QB, Virginia Tech
The Niners need QB depth, and while no one expects Taylor to be a future starter, he can be a solid backup if the starter goes down for a short time.

6- Charles Clay, FB, Tulsa
A FB who can run and catch the ball. Sounds like a WCO fullback to me.

6- Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond
Team needs a second corner in this draft, and Rogers had a terrific career and offseason.

6- Jerrell Powe, NT, Mississippi
Simply a backup, toilet clogger. Every 3-4 team needs one.

7- Ugo Chinasa, OLB, Oklahoma St
Was not drafted, but a quick, strong guy who could develop into a nice role player.

7- Jeron Johnson, S, Boise St
Also not drafted, but a talented, fast guy who has a ton of experience.

7- Dane Sanzenbacher, WR, Ohio St
Competition for Williams in the slot. Sanzenbacher was a seriously clutch WR for the Buckeyes.

Cheers.

That would be a really good team... Unfortunately without anyone quarterbacking it...
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
as i film you mean youtube videos?

hankerson @ 3rd assuming we did not trade back
Originally posted by strickac:
NT, Kendrick Ellis, in the 3rd. We get our franchise NT and we could patch up the secondary in free agency.

I hope Culliver becomes a great CB for us, but I think Goldson will walk and Culliver will eventually become our FS.

I was a big fan of Ellis, however he has charges of battery against him and could face some serious (multiple year ) jail time. Jets are taking a risk.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I'd re-do all of the Niners picks. These are the players I would have selected based on my board and team need (unfortunately excluding trades...I would have moved up to select Peterson..even if the cost was high). In having no trades, note the extra selection. I would have bypassed selecting a QB early.

Also, I strictly go by a no-cheating clause that does not look at how far a specific player mysteriously fell and selecting him in a later round before the real team selection.

1- JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin
Simply the best player on the board at the time. Since Franklin appears to be leaving, moving Soap to NT would necessitate a new DE to take over right away.

2- Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida State
I think Hudson is the best OL in the entire draft, and is a starter at guard or center.

3- Curtis Brown, CB, Texas
The team needs a cover corner, and Brown has size and speed.

4- Jordan Todman, RB, UConn
I graded Todman just slightly over Hunter, who I really like as well. Both are great value picks at this point.

4- Marcus Cannon, G, TCU
Since the Niners have a second fourth rounder, this can be a luxury pick. I'd burn it on a risk. Cannon is a starter at guard some time in the future if he can survive cancer and regain his strength. Worth the risk in the fourth round.

5- Tyrod Taylor, QB, Virginia Tech
The Niners need QB depth, and while no one expects Taylor to be a future starter, he can be a solid backup if the starter goes down for a short time.

6- Charles Clay, FB, Tulsa
A FB who can run and catch the ball. Sounds like a WCO fullback to me.

6- Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond
Team needs a second corner in this draft, and Rogers had a terrific career and offseason.

6- Jerrell Powe, NT, Mississippi
Simply a backup, toilet clogger. Every 3-4 team needs one.

7- Ugo Chinasa, OLB, Oklahoma St
Was not drafted, but a quick, strong guy who could develop into a nice role player.

7- Jeron Johnson, S, Boise St
Also not drafted, but a talented, fast guy who has a ton of experience.

7- Dane Sanzenbacher, WR, Ohio St
Competition for Williams in the slot. Sanzenbacher was a seriously clutch WR for the Buckeyes.

Cheers.

That would be a really good team... Unfortunately without anyone quarterbacking it...

Like a race car team that installs better tires, engine upgrades etc, but keeps losing because the driver sucks.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I'd re-do all of the Niners picks. These are the players I would have selected based on my board and team need (unfortunately excluding trades...I would have moved up to select Peterson..even if the cost was high). In having no trades, note the extra selection. I would have bypassed selecting a QB early.

Also, I strictly go by a no-cheating clause that does not look at how far a specific player mysteriously fell and selecting him in a later round before the real team selection.

1- JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin
Simply the best player on the board at the time. Since Franklin appears to be leaving, moving Soap to NT would necessitate a new DE to take over right away.

2- Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida State
I think Hudson is the best OL in the entire draft, and is a starter at guard or center.

3- Curtis Brown, CB, Texas
The team needs a cover corner, and Brown has size and speed.

4- Jordan Todman, RB, UConn
I graded Todman just slightly over Hunter, who I really like as well. Both are great value picks at this point.

4- Marcus Cannon, G, TCU
Since the Niners have a second fourth rounder, this can be a luxury pick. I'd burn it on a risk. Cannon is a starter at guard some time in the future if he can survive cancer and regain his strength. Worth the risk in the fourth round.

5- Tyrod Taylor, QB, Virginia Tech
The Niners need QB depth, and while no one expects Taylor to be a future starter, he can be a solid backup if the starter goes down for a short time.

6- Charles Clay, FB, Tulsa
A FB who can run and catch the ball. Sounds like a WCO fullback to me.

6- Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond
Team needs a second corner in this draft, and Rogers had a terrific career and offseason.

6- Jerrell Powe, NT, Mississippi
Simply a backup, toilet clogger. Every 3-4 team needs one.

7- Ugo Chinasa, OLB, Oklahoma St
Was not drafted, but a quick, strong guy who could develop into a nice role player.

7- Jeron Johnson, S, Boise St
Also not drafted, but a talented, fast guy who has a ton of experience.

7- Dane Sanzenbacher, WR, Ohio St
Competition for Williams in the slot. Sanzenbacher was a seriously clutch WR for the Buckeyes.

Cheers.

Just for jollies, here's a side by side comparison of the Niner's picks and where they were picked against your picks and where they were actually taken:

#7. Aldon Smith OLB in the 1st round vs. #11. J.J. Watt DE Houston, 1st round

#36. C. Kaepernick QB in the 2nd round vs. #55. Rodney Hudson OL, 2nd rd., Chiefs

#80. C. Culliver CB in the 3rd round vs. #95. Curtis Brown CB, 3rd rd., Steelers

#115. Kendall Hunter RB in the 4th round vs. #183. Jordon Todman RB 6th rd. Chargers

#163. Daniel Kilgore G/C in the 5th round vs. #138. Marcus Cannon G., 5th rd., Patriots

#182. Ronald Johnson WR in the 6th round vs. #180. Tyrod Taylor QB, 5th rd, Ravens

#190. Colin Jones S in the 6th round vs. #174. Charles Clay TE Dolphins, 6th

#211. Bruce Miller FB/OLB in the 7th round vs. #206. Justin Rogers CB Bills, 7th

#239. Michael Person OL in the 7th round vs. #199. Jerrell Powe NT Chiefs 6th round

#250. Curtis Holcomb CB in the 7th round vs.

Not Drafted Ugo Chinisa OLB

Not Drafted Jeron Johnson S

Not Drafted Sanzenbacher WR

Your selection of Todman, over Hunter in the 4th, appears to be a very big reach, based on where Todman was actually selected, two rounds later.

Cannon over Kilgore would be impossible, since Cannon was gone some 25 picks earlier. If Kilgore is anywhere near equal talent-wise, then the Niner's got great value with his pick.

Taylor over Johnson is a moot point, since the Niners got Kaepernick much earlier, and he appears to be a QB prospect with a much higher ceiling than Taylor.

Charles Clay, drafted as a TE by Miami at #174, was already off the board when the Niners picked at both 182 and 190, then they got their version of a FB project at #211, Bruce Miller, a hard nosed guy with some experience at TE in high school. So Baalke got Ron Johnson AND Colin Jones before picking up a "converson to FB" guy in Miller. Seems like Baalke may have beaten you by two there.

CB Justin Rogers was selected at #206, the Niner's got Holcomb at #250. Again, this appears to be a great value pick for the Niners.

You picked up a NT in the 7th. This appears to be a glaring need for the Niners, whether they resign Franklin or not.

Your three undrafted guys are all, presumably, going to be available as UDFAs once the CBA/lockout is resolved.

So overall, you got a NT in the 7th, the Niner's got a pass rushing OLB in the first. You got a backup QB project in the 5th, the Niner's got a potential starting QB project in the early 2nd.

Your draft appears to have reached for a DE in the first. If Watts was the 7th best player available, why did he last til #11? Ironic that you had Aldon Smith ranked 11th on your last big board and called his selection at #7 a "reach," yet you would take Watts at #7, when he was actually taken in the draft at #11.

If the Niner's draft was really just a C, then yours would have to be a D. I think your grade for the Niner's is too harsh, and I'd give it a B. In comparison, I think your draft would rate a C or a C+. You address all the needs, including NT, but sacrifice some quality (Kaepernick vs. Taylor is just one example) which could hurt in the long run. IMHO.

I don't think throwing a bunch of UDFAs into the mix is fair, at this point, since who the Niners will bring in as UDFA is still an unknown. You pick up a WR, S, and OLB as UDFA. Who's to say the Niners don't pick up all those guys, plus a NT as UDFA?

I don't think you fully read my post. As stated in my post, this re-do of the Niners draft is based on the idea that a) the Niners did not trade up or down at number 7 (although I would have been happy to move picks for Peterson); and b) they did not make the trade for Kaepernick, nor for Kilgore. So, the added pick in the fourth and sixth round exists (12 selections overall), and hence, Cannon would have been my second fourth round pick.

As for selecting guys who went after the Niners' selection, that is always the main premise. You can't select guys who went before.

To my knowledge, I have never used the word, "reach", for Smith at 7. Since I projected him to go at 11, he was in the area I suspected a team might select him. I avoid saying "reach" because it makes people angry, frustrated, irrational. I use the term, "value", instead. You are right that some may say that Smith may have more value than Watt, but team boards are varied. What some team may value in Watt, may not be what they value in Smith. On my board, Smith does not have 7th overall value, since I do not believe he is near the 7th overall best player. Many teams would probably agree with me. At the same time, some would disagree and say that Smith does has 7th overall value. In the end, it appeared the team was stuck with the 7th overall, and in this scenario, I think the better, wiser, safer selection was Watt, not Smith.

As for teams converting players to positions that they were not projected to be drafting for (in the case of Clay), that is the drafting team's perogative. It does not mean the player cannot play the position they played in college. They may run a scheme that could use the player in a different position (like Miller for the Niners).

You believe my draft is not better than the Niners, and that is your right. However, in comparing my drafts to the Niners over the years, I think you would easily trade the guys we selected for the ones I earmarked in the past. We wouldn't have seen the mountain of second and third round disasters that have plagued our teams.

It appeared the Niners did not come away with either of their intended goals for the 7th overall, selecting Patrick Peterson, nor trading with Atlanta for a boatload of picks. Whether it be bad luck, or poor planning, it sure appeared the Niners were stuck with the 7th overall, and simply picked the best player on their board, based on need, which was Smith. That set the wheels in motion for a series of days where they did not get the best picks in their slots.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I'd re-do all of the Niners picks. These are the players I would have selected based on my board and team need (unfortunately excluding trades...I would have moved up to select Peterson..even if the cost was high). In having no trades, note the extra selection. I would have bypassed selecting a QB early.

Also, I strictly go by a no-cheating clause that does not look at how far a specific player mysteriously fell and selecting him in a later round before the real team selection.

1- JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin
Simply the best player on the board at the time. Since Franklin appears to be leaving, moving Soap to NT would necessitate a new DE to take over right away.

2- Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida State
I think Hudson is the best OL in the entire draft, and is a starter at guard or center.

3- Curtis Brown, CB, Texas
The team needs a cover corner, and Brown has size and speed.

4- Jordan Todman, RB, UConn
I graded Todman just slightly over Hunter, who I really like as well. Both are great value picks at this point.

4- Marcus Cannon, G, TCU
Since the Niners have a second fourth rounder, this can be a luxury pick. I'd burn it on a risk. Cannon is a starter at guard some time in the future if he can survive cancer and regain his strength. Worth the risk in the fourth round.

5- Tyrod Taylor, QB, Virginia Tech
The Niners need QB depth, and while no one expects Taylor to be a future starter, he can be a solid backup if the starter goes down for a short time.

6- Charles Clay, FB, Tulsa
A FB who can run and catch the ball. Sounds like a WCO fullback to me.

6- Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond
Team needs a second corner in this draft, and Rogers had a terrific career and offseason.

6- Jerrell Powe, NT, Mississippi
Simply a backup, toilet clogger. Every 3-4 team needs one.

7- Ugo Chinasa, OLB, Oklahoma St
Was not drafted, but a quick, strong guy who could develop into a nice role player.

7- Jeron Johnson, S, Boise St
Also not drafted, but a talented, fast guy who has a ton of experience.

7- Dane Sanzenbacher, WR, Ohio St
Competition for Williams in the slot. Sanzenbacher was a seriously clutch WR for the Buckeyes.

Cheers.

That would be a really good team... Unfortunately without anyone quarterbacking it...

Like a race car team that installs better tires, engine upgrades etc, but keeps losing because the driver sucks.

Funny analogy. We will see if Harbaugh can help Smith maximize his talents. Smith did finish the year on a high note (the overall stats in the last 6 games were strong), so He appears to be given one more year, with a new guy at the helm.

The good news for teams that held out on using a high pick on a QB: Next year's QB class, if the big three come out, is much better than this year's.
Originally posted by domingo:
Though I thought that Aldon Smith was a solid pick and more importantly the correct pick under the circumstances, I would have tried to trade up with Cincy for Patrick Peterson. The chart says it would have cost us a third and fourth but Im a quality over quantity guy anyhow so I say it would have been worth it.

Not sure if the Bengals would have made that trade, but I would have offered a nice trade package to make it tempting. This would have eliminated our biggest problem heading into 2011 and beyond, with a stud CB.
Originally posted by fryet:
MadDog, from a need perspective, I like the 49er's draft over yours. They get the pashrushing OLB with a lot of talent at #7, a high ranked QB, and a corner in the third. With yours, I see a lot of OL drafting, which isn't a high need for the 49ers. Of course, with BPA, you don't always fill needs.

I still see long-range issues at both center and right guard (Baas had two concussions last season, as well as being a free agent, and Heitmann is recovering from two injuries). Meanwhile, Rachal continues to be a big disappointment. The team drafted for depth, while I would draft for starters. I think the team would be pretty set with a Staley-Iupati-Hudson-Cannon-Davis line for the future.

I would bypass QB until Harbaugh has taken a test drive with Smith. If he performs well, we will have a high second rounder mothballed on the bench. Plus, next year's draft looks more promising for starting QB's.

As for OLB's, that is a concern, but not as large an issue, in my opinion, over the OL play and our CB's.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on May 22, 2011 at 7:40 PM ]