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Terelle Pryor considering entering supplamental draft

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Kiper said he has more of a shot at TE than QB in the NFL. He's crazy. Pryor has enough raw skills to be a great WCO QB over time, and if we don't get the guy we want in a few weeks, he should be a strong consideration should he declare for the supplemental draft.

Prior's got raw skill there's no denying that but everything I've seen about him tells me he has Vince Young's attitude.

He has horrible accuracy, he doesn't make pro reads, he whines that he's not being used like Cam or Robinson. He's going to be a train wreck in the NFL. He's not half the prospect Cam Newton is either.

I'm not saying stats are everything, but the kid had a 65% completion percentage last year (which is damn good for a pro-style offense), and he wasn't just dinking and dunking (top 20 in yards per completion as well). I can't speak for his attitude since I don't know enough about him, but to come out and say that his accuracy is "horrible" seems downright, well, inaccurate.

I'll take expert opinions over stats any day of the week. Stats can be deceiving. The NFL is a close competition league. Ohio State Big Ten Football is not. Yeah he put up a 65% completion ratio in a bunch of routes against sh*tty opponents. You look at his close games and he was nowhere near as consisant. Under 60% against Miami, Arkansas, Wisconsin, and Iowa. Against Oregon in last year's bowl game he completed 62% of his passes had 2 TD and a pick. Pretty good game, rivalring Cam's game against Oregon.

You say you haven't watched him play that much. I live in Ohio and I've seen just about every game of his. He struggles with progressions and just isn't accurate. If you can find an expert who disagrees with that fine, but I'm not backing down from that stance because he completed 75% of his passes in a 49-0 route over Indiana. Ohio State had a soft schedule last year facing 2 teams that finished in the top 25.

Reading comprehension is key. I never said I didn't WATCH him play that much, I said I couldn't speak about the attitude thing since I don't know enough him as an individual. That's different.

If you can quote "experts" that say his accuracy is "horrible," than your statement has credibility. I didn't bring this point up, though...you did, so the burden of proof is on you to find others that back up your statement. I didn't say he was accurate...I said your statement seemed inaccurate.

Now, if you can't find experts that agree with you, that's fine...it's then just an opinion based on your perspective...which is of course valid and acceptable on this board. But I'm sure you realize your opinion (along with mine) has nothing to do with his draft status or pro potential, especially if it's not corroborated by experts.

IMO, a 65% completion percentage as a junior and a record of 33-6 as a starting QB in the Big 10 is pretty impressive. Has he been perfect in all of his games? Is he always 65% accurate? No. But he has managed to put up some pretty impressive numbers overall and win a lot of games by making a lot of great plays both inside and outside the pocket. Combine that with his ungodly athletic ability, and I believe he's worth a look.

Now, the attitude thing is something different, as I mentioned earlier. If it's as bad as you say, than it (along with the "horrible" accuracy issues you claim he has) will come out during his evaluation and will cost him dearly in terms of draft status.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Kiper projecting him to be a tight end over a quarterback has something to do with Pryor having poor quarterback skills.

Forgive me for connecting the dots on that one.

Guys like Young, Newton, Pryor are just too talented for most colleges to compete with. If you stack the line it leads to man coverages and blown assignments. If you don't they'll torch with their legs. That luxury ends once they hit the pros.

Dude, let's just be straight about this. You said his accuracy was horrible. I wasn't referring to nor did I question you about his OVERALL quarterbacking skills (which obviously are worthy of discussion). Did Kiper say, "due to Pryor's "horrible" accuracy, he should be a TE instead of a QB?" No, he didn't, and that's what you and I are talking about. A QB can be accurate in college and still not make a very good QB prospect, since there's so much more to playing the position than just that. I'm assuming Kiper is giving an overall evaluation/projection and not JUST pointing out one horrible flaw (accuracy) and dismissing his chances because of that one thing.

Why can't you just admit you exaggerated a little on how "horrible" his accuracy really is? It's not a big deal, we're all wrong sometimes.

This statement comes from a previous discussion about Pryor from Kiper. Right after his suspension came down.

When asked about what scouts needed to see from Pryor in his final season this is what he said. "Accuracy" "Throwing the football is the main thing" "He has to work on throwing the ball, he has to be precise with the football, and he has to do the things from a pure passing standpoint". He then went on to say he thought he was a better fit at tight end.

That statement right there pretty tells you what Kiper thinks of Pryor's accuracy. It needs alot of work.

Two things can be equally true. I don't entirely disagree with Kiper's assessment in terms of what Pryor needs to do in the passing department. I also don't think his accuracy is "horrible"...and Kiper doesn't describe it as such either.

He manages to complete a very high percentage of his passes in a pro-style offense and make plays through the air to win a ton of college football games (none of which is easy to do). AND, he struggles to consistently be precise with his footwork and his throwing mechanics in the pocket, which affects his precision (that's a negative). These are things he obviously needs to work on, and a good QB coach can help him in these areas.

IMO, I believe Kiper is saying that he believes Pryor doesn't possess the overall QB skills to be an NFL QB, but does have the athleticism/size/speed to play another position. He may end up being right, but then again, he also thought Jimmy Clausen was the 4th best player OVERALL in last year's draft, and thought David Carr was in no danger of being a bust as a #1 overall pick.

I disagree. Athletic quarterbacks have made dominating college football look very easy (Young, Tebow, Newton, Pryor), but as we all know that by itself doesn't translate into the pros.

I think Mel is seeing what alot of people see. An athletic freak whose game just doesn't project to the pros.

And I disagree with you. We actually DON'T know yet how this new breed of athletic freaks will translate as pro QBs. The only guy you listed who's had a shot at doing anything of note yet is Vince Young, and he's actually performed quite well in terms of winning games and overall production (was having his best year until things went south with his coach). It's the space between VY's ears that people have serious issues with, and not necessarily his skills/performance as a QB.

Tebow just finished his rookie year and Cam/Pryor haven't played a snap in the NFL, so it's not like you have a laundry list of examples to use when saying their games just "don't project to the pros."
  • Amir
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How many games is he supposed to be suspended for in the upcoming season?

If it's only a few games, I think it's a dumb decision. If it's majority of the season, then I would agree with him.
Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
How many games is he supposed to be suspended for in the upcoming season?

If it's only a few games, I think it's a dumb decision. If it's majority of the season, then I would agree with him.

I believe it's 5 games. IMO, that's pretty significant...consider that it will likely take at least 2 games to get his timing down (usually reserved for lightweight opponents), which means he'll only really be competing at a high level in about 7 games in his senior year.

I can see why he would be considering this move.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Kiper said he has more of a shot at TE than QB in the NFL. He's crazy. Pryor has enough raw skills to be a great WCO QB over time, and if we don't get the guy we want in a few weeks, he should be a strong consideration should he declare for the supplemental draft.

Prior's got raw skill there's no denying that but everything I've seen about him tells me he has Vince Young's attitude.

He has horrible accuracy, he doesn't make pro reads, he whines that he's not being used like Cam or Robinson. He's going to be a train wreck in the NFL. He's not half the prospect Cam Newton is either.

I'm not saying stats are everything, but the kid had a 65% completion percentage last year (which is damn good for a pro-style offense), and he wasn't just dinking and dunking (top 20 in yards per completion as well). I can't speak for his attitude since I don't know enough about him, but to come out and say that his accuracy is "horrible" seems downright, well, inaccurate.

I'll take expert opinions over stats any day of the week. Stats can be deceiving. The NFL is a close competition league. Ohio State Big Ten Football is not. Yeah he put up a 65% completion ratio in a bunch of routes against sh*tty opponents. You look at his close games and he was nowhere near as consisant. Under 60% against Miami, Arkansas, Wisconsin, and Iowa. Against Oregon in last year's bowl game he completed 62% of his passes had 2 TD and a pick. Pretty good game, rivalring Cam's game against Oregon.

You say you haven't watched him play that much. I live in Ohio and I've seen just about every game of his. He struggles with progressions and just isn't accurate. If you can find an expert who disagrees with that fine, but I'm not backing down from that stance because he completed 75% of his passes in a 49-0 route over Indiana. Ohio State had a soft schedule last year facing 2 teams that finished in the top 25.

Reading comprehension is key. I never said I didn't WATCH him play that much, I said I couldn't speak about the attitude thing since I don't know enough him as an individual. That's different.

If you can quote "experts" that say his accuracy is "horrible," than your statement has credibility. I didn't bring this point up, though...you did, so the burden of proof is on you to find others that back up your statement. I didn't say he was accurate...I said your statement seemed inaccurate.

Now, if you can't find experts that agree with you, that's fine...it's then just an opinion based on your perspective...which is of course valid and acceptable on this board. But I'm sure you realize your opinion (along with mine) has nothing to do with his draft status or pro potential, especially if it's not corroborated by experts.

IMO, a 65% completion percentage as a junior and a record of 33-6 as a starting QB in the Big 10 is pretty impressive. Has he been perfect in all of his games? Is he always 65% accurate? No. But he has managed to put up some pretty impressive numbers overall and win a lot of games by making a lot of great plays both inside and outside the pocket. Combine that with his ungodly athletic ability, and I believe he's worth a look.

Now, the attitude thing is something different, as I mentioned earlier. If it's as bad as you say, than it (along with the "horrible" accuracy issues you claim he has) will come out during his evaluation and will cost him dearly in terms of draft status.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Kiper projecting him to be a tight end over a quarterback has something to do with Pryor having poor quarterback skills.

Forgive me for connecting the dots on that one.

Guys like Young, Newton, Pryor are just too talented for most colleges to compete with. If you stack the line it leads to man coverages and blown assignments. If you don't they'll torch with their legs. That luxury ends once they hit the pros.

Dude, let's just be straight about this. You said his accuracy was horrible. I wasn't referring to nor did I question you about his OVERALL quarterbacking skills (which obviously are worthy of discussion). Did Kiper say, "due to Pryor's "horrible" accuracy, he should be a TE instead of a QB?" No, he didn't, and that's what you and I are talking about. A QB can be accurate in college and still not make a very good QB prospect, since there's so much more to playing the position than just that. I'm assuming Kiper is giving an overall evaluation/projection and not JUST pointing out one horrible flaw (accuracy) and dismissing his chances because of that one thing.

Why can't you just admit you exaggerated a little on how "horrible" his accuracy really is? It's not a big deal, we're all wrong sometimes.

This statement comes from a previous discussion about Pryor from Kiper. Right after his suspension came down.

When asked about what scouts needed to see from Pryor in his final season this is what he said. "Accuracy" "Throwing the football is the main thing" "He has to work on throwing the ball, he has to be precise with the football, and he has to do the things from a pure passing standpoint". He then went on to say he thought he was a better fit at tight end.

That statement right there pretty tells you what Kiper thinks of Pryor's accuracy. It needs alot of work.

Two things can be equally true. I don't entirely disagree with Kiper's assessment in terms of what Pryor needs to do in the passing department. I also don't think his accuracy is "horrible"...and Kiper doesn't describe it as such either.

He manages to complete a very high percentage of his passes in a pro-style offense and make plays through the air to win a ton of college football games (none of which is easy to do). AND, he struggles to consistently be precise with his footwork and his throwing mechanics in the pocket, which affects his precision (that's a negative). These are things he obviously needs to work on, and a good QB coach can help him in these areas.

IMO, I believe Kiper is saying that he believes Pryor doesn't possess the overall QB skills to be an NFL QB, but does have the athleticism/size/speed to play another position. He may end up being right, but then again, he also thought Jimmy Clausen was the 4th best player OVERALL in last year's draft, and thought David Carr was in no danger of being a bust as a #1 overall pick.

I disagree. Athletic quarterbacks have made dominating college football look very easy (Young, Tebow, Newton, Pryor), but as we all know that by itself doesn't translate into the pros.

I think Mel is seeing what alot of people see. An athletic freak whose game just doesn't project to the pros.

And I disagree with you. We actually DON'T know yet how this new breed of athletic freaks will translate as pro QBs. The only guy you listed who's had a shot at doing anything of note yet is Vince Young, and he's actually performed quite well in terms of winning games and overall production (was having his best year until things went south with his coach). It's the space between VY's ears that people have serious issues with, and not necessarily his skills/performance as a QB.

Tebow just finished his rookie year and Cam/Pryor haven't played a snap in the NFL, so it's not like you have a laundry list of examples to use when saying their games just "don't project to the pros."

Well you already know how I feel about inside Pryor's mind. That's not something I can verify. It's just my opinion.

If you can write off Claussen after one year I think it's okay if I write off Tebow.

Young had a good passer rating last year. I don't know if you could call it his best season or saying his benching wasn't performance related. He still couldn't pass the ball down the field to save his life. One 200 yard game in 8 starts. Even Alex Smith is laughing at that production. You're right that it's the space in between in ears that's been his main downfall, but I do think his lack of production was a factor as well.

I support Cam though. The difference between him and Pryor is Cam's just alot more fundamentally sound.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
How many games is he supposed to be suspended for in the upcoming season?

If it's only a few games, I think it's a dumb decision. If it's majority of the season, then I would agree with him.

I believe it's 5 games. IMO, that's pretty significant...consider that it will likely take at least 2 games to get his timing down (usually reserved for lightweight opponents), which means he'll only really be competing at a high level in about 7 games in his senior year.

I can see why he would be considering this move.

Aren't the first 3 games against Cupcake College, Creampuff U and College of St. Ann or something like that. That's who the Big 10 powers normally tune up on.
Originally posted by nvninerfan1:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
How many games is he supposed to be suspended for in the upcoming season?

If it's only a few games, I think it's a dumb decision. If it's majority of the season, then I would agree with him.

I believe it's 5 games. IMO, that's pretty significant...consider that it will likely take at least 2 games to get his timing down (usually reserved for lightweight opponents), which means he'll only really be competing at a high level in about 7 games in his senior year.

I can see why he would be considering this move.

Aren't the first 3 games against Cupcake College, Creampuff U and College of St. Ann or something like that. That's who the Big 10 powers normally tune up on.

Yup, that's what I said. They use those games as tune-ups, essentially. Pryor won't have that luxury, going right from his suspension in to Big-10 games, and there's a good chance he'll be a little rusty for the first few. Giving him really 7 or so games where he's playing at full capacity.

IMO, that's reason enough to at least consider jumping to the next level.
  • Amir
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Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by nvninerfan1:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
How many games is he supposed to be suspended for in the upcoming season?

If it's only a few games, I think it's a dumb decision. If it's majority of the season, then I would agree with him.

I believe it's 5 games. IMO, that's pretty significant...consider that it will likely take at least 2 games to get his timing down (usually reserved for lightweight opponents), which means he'll only really be competing at a high level in about 7 games in his senior year.

I can see why he would be considering this move.

Aren't the first 3 games against Cupcake College, Creampuff U and College of St. Ann or something like that. That's who the Big 10 powers normally tune up on.

Yup, that's what I said. They use those games as tune-ups, essentially. Pryor won't have that luxury, going right from his suspension in to Big-10 games, and there's a good chance he'll be a little rusty for the first few. Giving him really 7 or so games where he's playing at full capacity.

IMO, that's reason enough to at least consider jumping to the next level.

Agreed. If I were him, I'd go into the Supp draft too.
Originally posted by nvninerfan1:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
How many games is he supposed to be suspended for in the upcoming season?

If it's only a few games, I think it's a dumb decision. If it's majority of the season, then I would agree with him.

I believe it's 5 games. IMO, that's pretty significant...consider that it will likely take at least 2 games to get his timing down (usually reserved for lightweight opponents), which means he'll only really be competing at a high level in about 7 games in his senior year.

I can see why he would be considering this move.

Aren't the first 3 games against Cupcake College, Creampuff U and College of St. Ann or something like that. That's who the Big 10 powers normally tune up on.

If there's no CBA by June/ July all of this really doesn't matter because there will be no supplamental draft.

He's crazy if he comes out. Even with the suspension he still plays against the teeth of the Big Ten schedule. If he plays according to his abilities his stock can only go up. As of right now there's 3 quality vets available (McNabb, Palmer, Kolb) and 6 quarterbacks projected to go in the 1st 2 rounds.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Apr 11, 2011 at 4:24 PM ]
Originally posted by TX9R:
Yeah he's about dumb enough to do that. Piss away a degree, which he'll need because he isn't going to stick in the NFL. Also he'll be blacklisted at OSU for saying what it took to play in the bowl game, then changing that. It makes you wonder though if he knows something about what's in store for OSU with the NCAA.

how is it dumb, he will get drafted and most likely make a team. Even if he has a minimum contract he will make plenty of money to be able to go back to school and finish if he is smart with his money, if nfl doesnt work out.
The only problem I have with this is that he shouldve announced it back in January.

He's going to be a good QB in the NFL. He raw and very young, but he has incredible potential and he continues to get better each year.
  • KRS-1
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Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
well he should stay for his senior year, accept the suspension, and move on. He has improved every year and he should this year too.

I thought he had agreed to play next year as part of the agreement that let him and the other Ohio State players participate in their bowl game.

He did. All the players that were involved in that scandal did. It was nothing set in stone just a handshake agreement type of thing between the coach and players.

Originally posted by Ohio49ersfan:
Sorry Ghost but Pryor is not going to be a good qb in the nfl. Hes not even a great QB in college. I could see him playing in the NFL though, just not as a QB.

This argument holds no water. Matt Cassel never played a game snap at USC yet led his team to the playoffs last year and is an NFL starter. Being great in college isn't going to determine whether you'll be good or not in the NFL.

Originally posted by nvninerfan1:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
How many games is he supposed to be suspended for in the upcoming season?

If it's only a few games, I think it's a dumb decision. If it's majority of the season, then I would agree with him.

I believe it's 5 games. IMO, that's pretty significant...consider that it will likely take at least 2 games to get his timing down (usually reserved for lightweight opponents), which means he'll only really be competing at a high level in about 7 games in his senior year.

I can see why he would be considering this move.

Aren't the first 3 games against Cupcake College, Creampuff U and College of St. Ann or something like that. That's who the Big 10 powers normally tune up on.

FWIW the OSU schedule for 2011 :

Sat, Sep 03 Akron
Sat, Sep 10 Toledo
Sat, Sep 17 Miami (Fla.)
Sat, Sep 24 Colorado
Sat, Oct 01 Michigan State
Sat, Oct 08 Nebraska
Sat, Oct 15 Illinois
Sat, Oct 29 Wisconsin
Sat, Nov 05 Indiana
Sat, Nov 12 Purdue
Sat, Nov 19 Penn State
Sat, Nov 26 Michigan
Pryor shot down the report today on Twitter and said he's coming back.
I'm more with Ghost on this argument. He's a serious work in progress, and he can be inconsistent at times with his throws. At the same time, the dimension he adds in running the ball is pretty remarkable, and for a team that has a leaky offensive line, he would make a huge difference compared to a more stationary target, such as Ryan Mallett. He buys an extraordinary amount of time through his scrambling.

The major question is whether he can take the next step to be an accurate, in-the-pocket, passer.
so is he gonna enter now?

especially with Tressel getting a bunch of violations
[ Edited by ads_2006 on Apr 25, 2011 at 3:15 PM ]
schadjoe

RT @PDBuckeyes: BREAKING NEWS: Terrelle Pryor has decided to end his football career at Ohio State, per his lawyer