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Don't draft a QB 1st!

With the caveat that it is reasonable to admit Harbaugh can see things in every QB this class has to offer that we can't, I am in favor of not drafting one of these QBs in the 1st.
Instead, I'd like to use the extra cap space/expectations/reliance we'd presumably spend on a QB taken at #7, and swing a deal for a higher quality FA QB.
Granted, no one knows when FA will happen, how the future drafts will be impacted (rookie cap), or who is even available. So, what I'm saying is admittedly shooting in the dark a bit.
But, if Baalke/Hargaugh/scouts think there are better QB classes in next years', and the year after's Draft, it perhaps makes better sense to productively forfeit greater-valued picks this year for the FA QB, than to somewhat desperately spend a high pick now with the decent chance the pick ends up being unproductive toward winning.

More clearly, I'm willing to have them wait a year to draft potential franchise QB than to pick one now if they deem this year's more risky.
Immediacy < Value
We needed ANOTHER thread dedicated to this topic?
Originally posted by Gavintech:
We needed ANOTHER thread dedicated to this topic?

Yup. Its a touchy subject and those are always fun =)
In Harbaugh I trust
Harubaugh = "Release The Tight Ends!" haha
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
To be more specific, I think the 2 QBs who have the best chance of going in the top 10-15 AND being developing into something special over time are Gabbert and Newton. But I say that based on sheer talent/athleticism/triangle numbers, along with how they "project" to the next level and not because they're finished products yet (or even close) like Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford.

I'm thinking Joe Flacco and a bigger/stronger Alex Smith, is the best comparable to Gabbert (which will not make many 49er fans happy). IMO, Josh Freeman/Big Ben would be the closest thing to Newton (with Newton being less of a student of the passing game than those two).

I'm not a Jake Locker fan, but I think Harbaugh could make something of him and would trust his judgement on this guy should he be the pick. Btw, I would hope we'd trade back to get Locker if he's the one.

How in the world did you come up with comparing Cam to Josh Freeman?!?!?!?

IMO they are VERY different QBs as Freeman is a very good pocket passer with almost zero mobility.

ZERO mobility???




I can't see the video on my phone, but Freeman is a pocket passer with a 4.9-5.0 40yd speed. He runs very little, and is more an effective scrambler.

Cam Newton runs a 4.5-4.6 and is a run first type QB in college.

Cam is a long way from being developed into a Josh Freeman as far as a pocket passer.

Quote:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB Josh Freeman ranked second among quarterbacks this season in rushing yards with 364 yards as well as second in rushing first downs among quarterbacks with 29, reports Pat Yasinskas, of ESPN.com.

Yes, Cam is not Freeman yet in terms of his pocket passing ability, but he's got all the skills to do so (and did it well in JC too). The system he ran at Auburn obviously didn't ask him to sit in the pocket all day long; but when he did, he was deadly (watch the Ol' Miss game where he carved up their secondary, primarily while sitting in the pocket - 18/24, 209 yards passing, 2 TDs, no picks, 74% completion). And in his finest hour, he came back to beat the top-ranked passing defense in the SEC (Alabama) with a 13/20, 216 yards, 3 TDs and no pick-performance to move on to the SEC Championship game (where he picked apart South Carolina in his best overall passing performance of his career).

Btw, Freeman may not be a speedster, but you're very much in the minority if you don't think he's mobile. Btw, I didn't say they were identical in all aspects, but I do feel that Cam and Josh have a lot of similar traits, and that they all share similar qualities to Big Ben:

1.) Great size
2.) Cannon arm
3.) Very mobile and tough to bring down
4.) Excellent pocket awareness with the ability to step up or roll out depending on where the pressure is coming from

Cam has a long way to go in the pocket, no doubt. But I think the comparison is apt.

Your comparison of Freeman to Big Ben is spot on and I am surprised no one else has said that.

Saying Freeman has zero mobility is way off. Freeman is a very effective straight away runner who can make big gains when the play breaks down or a big lane opens up.

The biggest difference between the two is IMO that Freeman got drafted for his pocket passing, not his decent mobility. Cam Will be getting drafted high for his ability to run like a RB when needed. If anything he is a hybrid of Vick/Big Ben coming out of college.

Could he be developed into a pass first QB, maybe by an offensive genius. But I guess what I am trying to say is out of college Freeman and Big Ben came out of school as passing QBs, Cam Newton is being drafted as running QB who "could" be developed into a pro style QB. Ideal situation of course is he turns out to be a Freeman/Big Ben, but he is so far away from that right now, IMO it is a reaching comparison.
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
To be more specific, I think the 2 QBs who have the best chance of going in the top 10-15 AND being developing into something special over time are Gabbert and Newton. But I say that based on sheer talent/athleticism/triangle numbers, along with how they "project" to the next level and not because they're finished products yet (or even close) like Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford.

I'm thinking Joe Flacco and a bigger/stronger Alex Smith, is the best comparable to Gabbert (which will not make many 49er fans happy). IMO, Josh Freeman/Big Ben would be the closest thing to Newton (with Newton being less of a student of the passing game than those two).

I'm not a Jake Locker fan, but I think Harbaugh could make something of him and would trust his judgement on this guy should he be the pick. Btw, I would hope we'd trade back to get Locker if he's the one.

How in the world did you come up with comparing Cam to Josh Freeman?!?!?!?

IMO they are VERY different QBs as Freeman is a very good pocket passer with almost zero mobility.

ZERO mobility???




I can't see the video on my phone, but Freeman is a pocket passer with a 4.9-5.0 40yd speed. He runs very little, and is more an effective scrambler.

Cam Newton runs a 4.5-4.6 and is a run first type QB in college.

Cam is a long way from being developed into a Josh Freeman as far as a pocket passer.

Quote:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB Josh Freeman ranked second among quarterbacks this season in rushing yards with 364 yards as well as second in rushing first downs among quarterbacks with 29, reports Pat Yasinskas, of ESPN.com.

Yes, Cam is not Freeman yet in terms of his pocket passing ability, but he's got all the skills to do so (and did it well in JC too). The system he ran at Auburn obviously didn't ask him to sit in the pocket all day long; but when he did, he was deadly (watch the Ol' Miss game where he carved up their secondary, primarily while sitting in the pocket - 18/24, 209 yards passing, 2 TDs, no picks, 74% completion). And in his finest hour, he came back to beat the top-ranked passing defense in the SEC (Alabama) with a 13/20, 216 yards, 3 TDs and no pick-performance to move on to the SEC Championship game (where he picked apart South Carolina in his best overall passing performance of his career).

Btw, Freeman may not be a speedster, but you're very much in the minority if you don't think he's mobile. Btw, I didn't say they were identical in all aspects, but I do feel that Cam and Josh have a lot of similar traits, and that they all share similar qualities to Big Ben:

1.) Great size
2.) Cannon arm
3.) Very mobile and tough to bring down
4.) Excellent pocket awareness with the ability to step up or roll out depending on where the pressure is coming from

Cam has a long way to go in the pocket, no doubt. But I think the comparison is apt.

Your comparison of Freeman to Big Ben is spot on and I am surprised no one else has said that.

Saying Freeman has zero mobility is way off. Freeman is a very effective straight away runner who can make big gains when the play breaks down or a big lane opens up.

The biggest difference between the two is IMO that Freeman got drafted for his pocket passing, not his decent mobility. Cam Will be getting drafted high for his ability to run like a RB when needed. If anything he is a hybrid of Vick/Big Ben coming out of college.

Could he be developed into a pass first QB, maybe by an offensive genius. But I guess what I am trying to say is out of college Freeman and Big Ben came out of school as passing QBs, Cam Newton is being drafted as running QB who "could" be developed into a pro style QB. Ideal situation of course is he turns out to be a Freeman/Big Ben, but he is so far away from that right now, IMO it is a reaching comparison.

You have to take into account the style off offense Cam ran at Auburn. It just wasn't built to highlight his passing skills in general, much less his pocket passing skills. But when he was asked to sit in the pocket (and I've probably watched about 7-8 of his games from start to finish), he was almost dead-on Freeman/Big Ben. He stood tall in the pocket, waited for routes to develop and either threw darts to his WRs, or found a way to extend the play and turn a collapsing pocket into something positive.

So whoever drafts him will do so based on a tremendously high ceiling. And if his mind isn't right, he will turn into a bust. But if he's willing to put in the work and has the mental capacity to learn a complex pro-style system, he could be every bit the QB that BigBen and Freeman are. He has those core skills (size, speed, arm strength, mobility, touch/feel on passes, natural pocket awareness, etc.) and there aren't many people on the planet you can say that about.

It's the intangibles though that will make him or break him, IMO.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
To be more specific, I think the 2 QBs who have the best chance of going in the top 10-15 AND being developing into something special over time are Gabbert and Newton. But I say that based on sheer talent/athleticism/triangle numbers, along with how they "project" to the next level and not because they're finished products yet (or even close) like Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford.

I'm thinking Joe Flacco and a bigger/stronger Alex Smith, is the best comparable to Gabbert (which will not make many 49er fans happy). IMO, Josh Freeman/Big Ben would be the closest thing to Newton (with Newton being less of a student of the passing game than those two).

I'm not a Jake Locker fan, but I think Harbaugh could make something of him and would trust his judgement on this guy should he be the pick. Btw, I would hope we'd trade back to get Locker if he's the one.

How in the world did you come up with comparing Cam to Josh Freeman?!?!?!?

IMO they are VERY different QBs as Freeman is a very good pocket passer with almost zero mobility.

ZERO mobility???




I can't see the video on my phone, but Freeman is a pocket passer with a 4.9-5.0 40yd speed. He runs very little, and is more an effective scrambler.

Cam Newton runs a 4.5-4.6 and is a run first type QB in college.

Cam is a long way from being developed into a Josh Freeman as far as a pocket passer.

Quote:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB Josh Freeman ranked second among quarterbacks this season in rushing yards with 364 yards as well as second in rushing first downs among quarterbacks with 29, reports Pat Yasinskas, of ESPN.com.

Yes, Cam is not Freeman yet in terms of his pocket passing ability, but he's got all the skills to do so (and did it well in JC too). The system he ran at Auburn obviously didn't ask him to sit in the pocket all day long; but when he did, he was deadly (watch the Ol' Miss game where he carved up their secondary, primarily while sitting in the pocket - 18/24, 209 yards passing, 2 TDs, no picks, 74% completion). And in his finest hour, he came back to beat the top-ranked passing defense in the SEC (Alabama) with a 13/20, 216 yards, 3 TDs and no pick-performance to move on to the SEC Championship game (where he picked apart South Carolina in his best overall passing performance of his career).

Btw, Freeman may not be a speedster, but you're very much in the minority if you don't think he's mobile. Btw, I didn't say they were identical in all aspects, but I do feel that Cam and Josh have a lot of similar traits, and that they all share similar qualities to Big Ben:

1.) Great size
2.) Cannon arm
3.) Very mobile and tough to bring down
4.) Excellent pocket awareness with the ability to step up or roll out depending on where the pressure is coming from

Cam has a long way to go in the pocket, no doubt. But I think the comparison is apt.

Your comparison of Freeman to Big Ben is spot on and I am surprised no one else has said that.

Saying Freeman has zero mobility is way off. Freeman is a very effective straight away runner who can make big gains when the play breaks down or a big lane opens up.

The biggest difference between the two is IMO that Freeman got drafted for his pocket passing, not his decent mobility. Cam Will be getting drafted high for his ability to run like a RB when needed. If anything he is a hybrid of Vick/Big Ben coming out of college.

Could he be developed into a pass first QB, maybe by an offensive genius. But I guess what I am trying to say is out of college Freeman and Big Ben came out of school as passing QBs, Cam Newton is being drafted as running QB who "could" be developed into a pro style QB. Ideal situation of course is he turns out to be a Freeman/Big Ben, but he is so far away from that right now, IMO it is a reaching comparison.

You have to take into account the style off offense Cam ran at Auburn. It just wasn't built to highlight his passing skills in general, much less his pocket passing skills. But when he was asked to sit in the pocket (and I've probably watched about 7-8 of his games from start to finish), he was almost dead-on Freeman/Big Ben. He stood tall in the pocket, waited for routes to develop and either threw darts to his WRs, or found a way to extend the play and turn a collapsing pocket into something positive.

So whoever drafts him will do so based on a tremendously high ceiling. And if his mind isn't right, he will turn into a bust. But if he's willing to put in the work and has the mental capacity to learn a complex pro-style system, he could be every bit the QB that BigBen and Freeman are. He has those core skills (size, speed, arm strength, mobility, touch/feel on passes, natural pocket awareness, etc.) and there aren't many people on the planet you can say that about.

It's the intangibles though that will make him or break him, IMO.

If we were to gamble on Newton. He does have the talent and to me his more of a hybrid between Big Ben n Vick, simply because he has more elusiveness than freeman and have better bounce. He should not be a first year starter though, more of a sit and groom, let him pick up that complex pro-style. This is where his intangibles are really tested. And if he were to sit he needs to learn from a good veteran not Alex smith. Palmer would be ideal. Hes no favre that rodgers learned from or Montana that young learned from but he'd be better. Even hasselbeck would be a consideration.
Originally posted by fakers23:
I wont throw a fit if we take a QB in the first.. Some on here are scared to take a QB,because of 05... That was 6 years ago guys... We can't let what happen 6 years ago effect our thinking now... Do I think we will take a QB in the first. Probably not,but if we do I'm not going to say big mistake...

No, I wouldn't say people are afraid history will repeat itself but since A Smith looked a lot better in college than any current prospect, why pick one at #7? This draft is top heavy with D linemen and a couple very good DBs. So why not go for another position of need if it's sitting there?

There are a number of good QB prospects in the seond and third rounds so that would make more sense. If Luck had come out this year I would be asking for a trade up to get him as he is the best prospect I've seen in years.