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Don't draft a QB 1st!

To be more specific, I think the 2 QBs who have the best chance of going in the top 10-15 AND being developing into something special over time are Gabbert and Newton. But I say that based on sheer talent/athleticism/triangle numbers, along with how they "project" to the next level and not because they're finished products yet (or even close) like Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford.

I'm thinking Joe Flacco and a bigger/stronger Alex Smith, is the best comparable to Gabbert (which will not make many 49er fans happy). IMO, Josh Freeman/Big Ben would be the closest thing to Newton (with Newton being less of a student of the passing game than those two).

I'm not a Jake Locker fan, but I think Harbaugh could make something of him and would trust his judgement on this guy should he be the pick. Btw, I would hope we'd trade back to get Locker if he's the one.

[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Feb 3, 2011 at 15:43:02 ]
I wont throw a fit if we take a QB in the first.. Some on here are scared to take a QB,because of 05... That was 6 years ago guys... We can't let what happen 6 years ago effect our thinking now... Do I think we will take a QB in the first. Probably not,but if we do I'm not going to say big mistake...
Out of the draft eleigible QB's this year I don't see anyone that will be a sure fire hit in the pro's. Too many people have too many questions about all of them in fact there are some that don't feel ANY of them deserve to be first round picks.... As we all know the draft is a crap shoot at best especially for the position of QB....

I would hope to pick up a vet at QB and then pull the trigger on a CB or OLB in the first and pick up a project QB in the second.
  • sfout
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It'll never happen**KNOCKS ON WOOD** The idea of paying a guy 30Mil to sit on the bench for a year or two is completely ludicrous. Harbaugh will want to take his dear sweet time with the guy even if he is "NFL Ready" at day 1.
If any draft boards still have us taking a QB in the first it is because they are fan bias or quite frankly, idiots. Everyone and their mother knows that Harbaugh is looking a for a particular skill set and is looking at every QB in the draft. Seriously don't be surprised if he sneaks in a second QB in the 6th or 7th round as well. Or invites a UDFA or two to OTAS. Both Harbaugh and Baalke know we need an impact player who can help us win immediately at #7.
Originally posted by fakers23:
I wont throw a fit if we take a QB in the first.. Some on here are scared to take a QB,because of 05... That was 6 years ago guys... We can't let what happen 6 years ago effect our thinking now... Do I think we will take a QB in the first. Probably not,but if we do I'm not going to say big mistake...

I don't think people are necessarily scared of what happened 6 years ago. I think most on here just don't like the QB options in the first round. I highly doubt anyone would be scared of drafting Andrew Luck if he were somehow available to us.

I for one am intrigued by the 2nd or 3rd round guys more in this draft, Ponder to be specific. Would I be upset if Harbaugh felt the first round guys are worth the #7 pick, absolutely not. He knows much more about QB's than I do. If he feels Gabbert or Locker are can't miss prospects and he feels he can develop them into a potential franchise QB. I'll take his word for it.

I personally like Quinn, Prince or Von Miller in the first round and taking a QB(Ponder or Dalton) in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. That's just me though. It has nothing to do with what happened 6 years ago.
Originally posted by sfout:
It'll never happen**KNOCKS ON WOOD** The idea of paying a guy 30Mil to sit on the bench for a year or two is completely ludicrous. Harbaugh will want to take his dear sweet time with the guy even if he is "NFL Ready" at day 1.
If any draft boards still have us taking a QB in the first it is because they are fan bias or quite frankly, idiots. Everyone and their mother knows that Harbaugh is looking a for a particular skill set and is looking at every QB in the draft. Seriously don't be surprised if he sneaks in a second QB in the 6th or 7th round as well. Or invites a UDFA or two to OTAS. Both Harbaugh and Baalke know we need an impact player who can help us win immediately at #7.

You're saying Jed will "force" Harbaugh to start a young rookie QB like Gabbert (for example) because of the money he's being paid?



Jed may be the owner, but he doesn't know s**t about football or what/how long it takes to develop QBs. That's Harbaugh's call and nobody elses.

BTW, as much as Baalke and Harbaugh know we need an impact player, they're also not stupid enough to think we can go far without a legitimate QB. So "IF" they like one of those QBs sitting at #7, you can bet your ass they're taking him and developing him.
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,306
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by sfout:
It'll never happen**KNOCKS ON WOOD** The idea of paying a guy 30Mil to sit on the bench for a year or two is completely ludicrous. Harbaugh will want to take his dear sweet time with the guy even if he is "NFL Ready" at day 1.
If any draft boards still have us taking a QB in the first it is because they are fan bias or quite frankly, idiots. Everyone and their mother knows that Harbaugh is looking a for a particular skill set and is looking at every QB in the draft. Seriously don't be surprised if he sneaks in a second QB in the 6th or 7th round as well. Or invites a UDFA or two to OTAS. Both Harbaugh and Baalke know we need an impact player who can help us win immediately at #7.

You're saying Jed will "force" Harbaugh to start a young rookie QB like Gabbert (for example) because of the money he's being paid?



Jed may be the owner, but he doesn't know s**t about football or what/how long it takes to develop QBs. That's Harbaugh's call and nobody elses.

BTW, as much as Baalke and Harbaugh know we need an impact player, they're also not stupid enough to think we can go far without a legitimate QB. So "IF" they like one of those QBs sitting at #7, you can bet your ass they're taking him and developing him.

You kind of reached a little bit with my explanation. The only first round grade QBs are Locker, Newton and Gabbert. I've seen countless people saying Mallett could fall out of the first round unless he has an amazing combine.
Most scouts have said Locker has little chance to improve his accuracy because of how sharp his mechanics already are and if he was going to become more accurate it already would've happened.
Newton is a one year wonder who played in a gimmick offense and had a weak schedule to start the season and once Auburn's momentum got rolling it was just too hard to stop him. I would rather we take Newton at #7 then any of the 3 because he has the best chance to succeed because of his skill set.
Gabbert, I like him but I don't want a lazy guy who is getting paid 30Mil to sit on the bench for a season or two. Who knows how hard he is to motivate or what kind of shape he would show up in because he knows he isn't starting.
I'll address Mallett because he is still a 1st rounder overall. He has that goofy release which could probably be fixed but he easily the least athletic of the group.
Bottom line Newton and Gabbert look to be the only QBs worthy of our #7 pick. Luckily for us every QB is a project and that is what Harbaugh is looking for so this entire draft is up in the air because we have no idea when Harbaugh will take a QB.
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by sfout:
It'll never happen**KNOCKS ON WOOD** The idea of paying a guy 30Mil to sit on the bench for a year or two is completely ludicrous. Harbaugh will want to take his dear sweet time with the guy even if he is "NFL Ready" at day 1.
If any draft boards still have us taking a QB in the first it is because they are fan bias or quite frankly, idiots. Everyone and their mother knows that Harbaugh is looking a for a particular skill set and is looking at every QB in the draft. Seriously don't be surprised if he sneaks in a second QB in the 6th or 7th round as well. Or invites a UDFA or two to OTAS. Both Harbaugh and Baalke know we need an impact player who can help us win immediately at #7.

You're saying Jed will "force" Harbaugh to start a young rookie QB like Gabbert (for example) because of the money he's being paid?



Jed may be the owner, but he doesn't know s**t about football or what/how long it takes to develop QBs. That's Harbaugh's call and nobody elses.

BTW, as much as Baalke and Harbaugh know we need an impact player, they're also not stupid enough to think we can go far without a legitimate QB. So "IF" they like one of those QBs sitting at #7, you can bet your ass they're taking him and developing him.

You kind of reached a little bit with my explanation. The only first round grade QBs are Locker, Newton and Gabbert. I've seen countless people saying Mallett could fall out of the first round unless he has an amazing combine.
Most scouts have said Locker has little chance to improve his accuracy because of how sharp his mechanics already are and if he was going to become more accurate it already would've happened.
Newton is a one year wonder who played in a gimmick offense and had a weak schedule to start the season and once Auburn's momentum got rolling it was just too hard to stop him. I would rather we take Newton at #7 then any of the 3 because he has the best chance to succeed because of his skill set.
Gabbert, I like him but I don't want a lazy guy who is getting paid 30Mil to sit on the bench for a season or two. Who knows how hard he is to motivate or what kind of shape he would show up in because he knows he isn't starting.
I'll address Mallett because he is still a 1st rounder overall. He has that goofy release which could probably be fixed but he easily the least athletic of the group.
Bottom line Newton and Gabbert look to be the only QBs worthy of our #7 pick. Luckily for us every QB is a project and that is what Harbaugh is looking for so this entire draft is up in the air because we have no idea when Harbaugh will take a QB.

Lets say your right and that we are seriously considering a QB between Gabbert and Newton. It would be better to trade back and save some money cuz one of those QBs will fall. Titans might pick up 1 of the 2 probably newton. maybe dallas or houston would be a good trade partner. Neither team needs a QB, redskins might take a QB but that still leaves us a pass rusher available to pick up, like the local favorite Cameron Jordan.
No QB is worthy of top 10 honestly this year.
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by sfout:
It'll never happen**KNOCKS ON WOOD** The idea of paying a guy 30Mil to sit on the bench for a year or two is completely ludicrous. Harbaugh will want to take his dear sweet time with the guy even if he is "NFL Ready" at day 1.
If any draft boards still have us taking a QB in the first it is because they are fan bias or quite frankly, idiots. Everyone and their mother knows that Harbaugh is looking a for a particular skill set and is looking at every QB in the draft. Seriously don't be surprised if he sneaks in a second QB in the 6th or 7th round as well. Or invites a UDFA or two to OTAS. Both Harbaugh and Baalke know we need an impact player who can help us win immediately at #7.

You're saying Jed will "force" Harbaugh to start a young rookie QB like Gabbert (for example) because of the money he's being paid?



Jed may be the owner, but he doesn't know s**t about football or what/how long it takes to develop QBs. That's Harbaugh's call and nobody elses.

BTW, as much as Baalke and Harbaugh know we need an impact player, they're also not stupid enough to think we can go far without a legitimate QB. So "IF" they like one of those QBs sitting at #7, you can bet your ass they're taking him and developing him.

You kind of reached a little bit with my explanation. The only first round grade QBs are Locker, Newton and Gabbert. I've seen countless people saying Mallett could fall out of the first round unless he has an amazing combine.
Most scouts have said Locker has little chance to improve his accuracy because of how sharp his mechanics already are and if he was going to become more accurate it already would've happened.
Newton is a one year wonder who played in a gimmick offense and had a weak schedule to start the season and once Auburn's momentum got rolling it was just too hard to stop him. I would rather we take Newton at #7 then any of the 3 because he has the best chance to succeed because of his skill set.
Gabbert, I like him but I don't want a lazy guy who is getting paid 30Mil to sit on the bench for a season or two. Who knows how hard he is to motivate or what kind of shape he would show up in because he knows he isn't starting.
I'll address Mallett because he is still a 1st rounder overall. He has that goofy release which could probably be fixed but he easily the least athletic of the group.
Bottom line Newton and Gabbert look to be the only QBs worthy of our #7 pick. Luckily for us every QB is a project and that is what Harbaugh is looking for so this entire draft is up in the air because we have no idea when Harbaugh will take a QB.

On this we agree. Hell, JH might take C.J. Yates in the 4th after evaluating him, and think (with proper coaching, the right system and big-time playmakers) he's the next Tony Romo. Whatever he decides, I'd personally be foolish to question given how much he knows about the position and what it will take to flourish in his system.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
To be more specific, I think the 2 QBs who have the best chance of going in the top 10-15 AND being developing into something special over time are Gabbert and Newton. But I say that based on sheer talent/athleticism/triangle numbers, along with how they "project" to the next level and not because they're finished products yet (or even close) like Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford.

I'm thinking Joe Flacco and a bigger/stronger Alex Smith, is the best comparable to Gabbert (which will not make many 49er fans happy). IMO, Josh Freeman/Big Ben would be the closest thing to Newton (with Newton being less of a student of the passing game than those two).

I'm not a Jake Locker fan, but I think Harbaugh could make something of him and would trust his judgement on this guy should he be the pick. Btw, I would hope we'd trade back to get Locker if he's the one.

How in the world did you come up with comparing Cam to Josh Freeman?!?!?!?

IMO they are VERY different QBs as Freeman is a very good pocket passer with almost zero mobility.
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
To be more specific, I think the 2 QBs who have the best chance of going in the top 10-15 AND being developing into something special over time are Gabbert and Newton. But I say that based on sheer talent/athleticism/triangle numbers, along with how they "project" to the next level and not because they're finished products yet (or even close) like Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford.

I'm thinking Joe Flacco and a bigger/stronger Alex Smith, is the best comparable to Gabbert (which will not make many 49er fans happy). IMO, Josh Freeman/Big Ben would be the closest thing to Newton (with Newton being less of a student of the passing game than those two).

I'm not a Jake Locker fan, but I think Harbaugh could make something of him and would trust his judgement on this guy should he be the pick. Btw, I would hope we'd trade back to get Locker if he's the one.

How in the world did you come up with comparing Cam to Josh Freeman?!?!?!?

IMO they are VERY different QBs as Freeman is a very good pocket passer with almost zero mobility.

ZERO mobility???



Quote:

Thu, 03 Feb 2011 09:43:00 -0800

Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB Josh Freeman ranked second among quarterbacks this season in rushing yards with 364 yards as well as second in rushing first downs among quarterbacks with 29, reports Pat Yasinskas, of ESPN.com.



[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Feb 4, 2011 at 14:32:15 ]
In Harbaugh I trust.


If the pick ends up being a QB, I know it's because Harbs sees something in him that he could develop and not just because we're in dire need of a QB.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
To be more specific, I think the 2 QBs who have the best chance of going in the top 10-15 AND being developing into something special over time are Gabbert and Newton. But I say that based on sheer talent/athleticism/triangle numbers, along with how they "project" to the next level and not because they're finished products yet (or even close) like Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford.

I'm thinking Joe Flacco and a bigger/stronger Alex Smith, is the best comparable to Gabbert (which will not make many 49er fans happy). IMO, Josh Freeman/Big Ben would be the closest thing to Newton (with Newton being less of a student of the passing game than those two).

I'm not a Jake Locker fan, but I think Harbaugh could make something of him and would trust his judgement on this guy should he be the pick. Btw, I would hope we'd trade back to get Locker if he's the one.

How in the world did you come up with comparing Cam to Josh Freeman?!?!?!?

IMO they are VERY different QBs as Freeman is a very good pocket passer with almost zero mobility.

ZERO mobility???




I can't see the video on my phone, but Freeman is a pocket passer with a 4.9-5.0 40yd speed. He runs very little, and is more an effective scrambler.

Cam Newton runs a 4.5-4.6 and is a run first type QB in college.

Cam is a long way from being developed into a Josh Freeman as far as a pocket passer.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
To be more specific, I think the 2 QBs who have the best chance of going in the top 10-15 AND being developing into something special over time are Gabbert and Newton. But I say that based on sheer talent/athleticism/triangle numbers, along with how they "project" to the next level and not because they're finished products yet (or even close) like Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford.

I'm thinking Joe Flacco and a bigger/stronger Alex Smith, is the best comparable to Gabbert (which will not make many 49er fans happy). IMO, Josh Freeman/Big Ben would be the closest thing to Newton (with Newton being less of a student of the passing game than those two).

I'm not a Jake Locker fan, but I think Harbaugh could make something of him and would trust his judgement on this guy should he be the pick. Btw, I would hope we'd trade back to get Locker if he's the one.

How in the world did you come up with comparing Cam to Josh Freeman?!?!?!?

IMO they are VERY different QBs as Freeman is a very good pocket passer with almost zero mobility.

ZERO mobility???



Quote:

Thu, 03 Feb 2011 09:43:00 -0800

Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB Josh Freeman ranked second among quarterbacks this season in rushing yards with 364 yards as well as second in rushing first downs among quarterbacks with 29, reports Pat Yasinskas, of ESPN.com.


man, i must have just blocked out this game entirely. I don't remember any of that s**t.
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
To be more specific, I think the 2 QBs who have the best chance of going in the top 10-15 AND being developing into something special over time are Gabbert and Newton. But I say that based on sheer talent/athleticism/triangle numbers, along with how they "project" to the next level and not because they're finished products yet (or even close) like Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford.

I'm thinking Joe Flacco and a bigger/stronger Alex Smith, is the best comparable to Gabbert (which will not make many 49er fans happy). IMO, Josh Freeman/Big Ben would be the closest thing to Newton (with Newton being less of a student of the passing game than those two).

I'm not a Jake Locker fan, but I think Harbaugh could make something of him and would trust his judgement on this guy should he be the pick. Btw, I would hope we'd trade back to get Locker if he's the one.

How in the world did you come up with comparing Cam to Josh Freeman?!?!?!?

IMO they are VERY different QBs as Freeman is a very good pocket passer with almost zero mobility.

ZERO mobility???




I can't see the video on my phone, but Freeman is a pocket passer with a 4.9-5.0 40yd speed. He runs very little, and is more an effective scrambler.

Cam Newton runs a 4.5-4.6 and is a run first type QB in college.

Cam is a long way from being developed into a Josh Freeman as far as a pocket passer.

Quote:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB Josh Freeman ranked second among quarterbacks this season in rushing yards with 364 yards as well as second in rushing first downs among quarterbacks with 29, reports Pat Yasinskas, of ESPN.com.

Yes, Cam is not Freeman yet in terms of his pocket passing ability, but he's got all the skills to do so (and did it well in JC too). The system he ran at Auburn obviously didn't ask him to sit in the pocket all day long; but when he did, he was deadly (watch the Ol' Miss game where he carved up their secondary, primarily while sitting in the pocket - 18/24, 209 yards passing, 2 TDs, no picks, 74% completion). And in his finest hour, he came back to beat the top-ranked passing defense in the SEC (Alabama) with a 13/20, 216 yards, 3 TDs and no pick-performance to move on to the SEC Championship game (where he picked apart South Carolina in his best overall passing performance of his career).

Btw, Freeman may not be a speedster, but you're very much in the minority if you don't think he's mobile. Btw, I didn't say they were identical in all aspects, but I do feel that Cam and Josh have a lot of similar traits, and that they all share similar qualities to Big Ben:

1.) Great size
2.) Cannon arm
3.) Very mobile and tough to bring down
4.) Excellent pocket awareness with the ability to step up or roll out depending on where the pressure is coming from

Cam has a long way to go in the pocket, no doubt. But I think the comparison is apt.

[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Feb 4, 2011 at 16:22:06 ]