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robert quinn vs von miller

robert quinn vs von miller

Quinn is 6'5" and 270, while Miller is 6'2" and 230. That is quite a difference when it comes to holding the edge. Don't know how much either could add but both are very quick. Just watching Quinn makes me think he has that extra burst. Very seldom does Sporting news use words like "shockingly productive." The year off doesn't really bother me.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Quinn is 6'5" and 270, while Miller is 6'2" and 230. That is quite a difference when it comes to holding the edge. Don't know how much either could add but both are very quick. Just watching Quinn makes me think he has that extra burst. Very seldom does Sporting news use words like "shockingly productive." The year off doesn't really bother me.

He's not 230, but that's funny. Instead, he'll end up at a playing weight of 245, IMO. That's all he needs. Now Quinn is truly a specimine. I have already said that at the Combine, Quinn will keep his lead above Miller because of his size, speed and strength combo. I am sure he can be taught better technique and not argument that Quinn's upside is higher, heck he's at least 6'4" and 260 and possibly faster than Quinn and Matthews.

I just dig Miller's play and I do like Quinn, too. Like I said before either one would be a perfect fit for Fangio's D. Nice to have a possible choice in Dareus, Quinn, Miller and Amukamara. And if Gabbert jumps up like Sanchez, then we have some serious options, no?

How lucky though we are in having these guys as true options at #7. Really.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,355
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

Why isn't it close???

There's a good amount of video on Quinn all over the internet (game video, not highlight compilations...real video--good plays and bad). The guy is just amazing. Size, speed, quickness, anticipation, play recognition, instincts, the power with which he tackles and hits people. He looks like Lawrence Taylor. This is in no way a nock on Miller (who I'm not a HUGE fan of due to his weak tackling...can he really bring down Big Ben or Steven Jackson???). Rather this is a reflection of my view of Quinn. No denying Miller's quickness and ability to get into the backfield. But Quinn, IMO, is a very very rare prospect.

Well the things you've listed Miller stacks up right next to Quinn:

Size - Well 6'2" 240 isn't that much smaller, James Harrison and Elvis Dumerville don't exactly have ideal size either.

Speed - No doubt Miller has that.

Quickness - No denying that one either.

Play recognition/anticipation - Miller has shown to recognize a screen and doesn't bite on play-action as easy. Hes also shown a variety moves to beat an O-lineman, inside or out.

Athleticism
- Miller is more than athletic enough to drop back into coverage or stand up in a 3-4, there's also no denying that one.

Power to beat tackles or shed blocks - If you've watched at least one game, you'd see he has the power to beat an OT around him, beat a Guard with an inside move. I think Miller's strength is very underrated, it might be due to the fact that hes mostly speed and doesn't have as big as size as you'd want in a DE. But no doubt he will over power and beat an O-lineman.

I don't get how you can say this kid tackles like hes playing two-hand touch, you don't win the Dick Butkus Award because you can't tackle. Can Miller bring down a Big Ben, I'd say so, he brought down Kaepernick and Ryan Mallet with ease, and both are just as big as Rothelisberger. In what little snaps hes shown in the Senior Bowl hes shown he can make plays, lets not forget he was named Defensive player of the game.

Close, its much closer than you think.

Size isn't everything, but to say Miller and Quinn have similar size is like saying DeSean Jackson and Andre Johnson have similar size. And Kaepernick and Big Ben are similar size? WHhhhhhhaaaaaatttttt?????? Big Ben is one of the strongest QBs to ever play the game, and is very difficult to bring down. Kaepernick has the smallest legs I've ever seen on a QB. Miller has things to like about him, but these size comparisons are preposterous.

I didn't say Quinn and Miller are the same size, I said Miller isn't that much smaller. And I didn't say, Kaepernick are similar in size, I said just as big, talk about putting word in mouth sheesh. No doubt Big Ben is probably the strongest QB in the NFL, but to really question if he Miller can bring down Big Ben is non sense, shoot, Robert Mathis 6'2" 235 sometimes has no trouble taking down Big Ben. Its about the angles and how off balance you are at the time when trying to bring Roethelisberger down, not just Miller, but pretty much every defender has a hard time bringing him down.

But to knock Miller for his size and suppose poor tackling (when in fact he has more tackles in his Jr. and Sr. year than Quinn does in his fresh and Soph years) is absurd. The two knocks on Miller for one, can be gained with proper nutrition, and two, can be coached. But I just don't know what you are looking at, when you knock him for his tackling, from every game I've seen of him he looks like a very sure tackler that wraps up before going for the big hit.

I just don't get the hype for Quinn, I'm not saying hes not any good, but one good year isn't enough to wow me. if anything, Ryan Kerrigan has been more consistent and productive than Quinn.
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,304
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

Why isn't it close???

There's a good amount of video on Quinn all over the internet (game video, not highlight compilations...real video--good plays and bad). The guy is just amazing. Size, speed, quickness, anticipation, play recognition, instincts, the power with which he tackles and hits people. He looks like Lawrence Taylor. This is in no way a nock on Miller (who I'm not a HUGE fan of due to his weak tackling...can he really bring down Big Ben or Steven Jackson???). Rather this is a reflection of my view of Quinn. No denying Miller's quickness and ability to get into the backfield. But Quinn, IMO, is a very very rare prospect.

Well the things you've listed Miller stacks up right next to Quinn:

Size - Well 6'2" 240 isn't that much smaller, James Harrison and Elvis Dumerville don't exactly have ideal size either.

Speed - No doubt Miller has that.

Quickness - No denying that one either.

Play recognition/anticipation - Miller has shown to recognize a screen and doesn't bite on play-action as easy. Hes also shown a variety moves to beat an O-lineman, inside or out.

Athleticism
- Miller is more than athletic enough to drop back into coverage or stand up in a 3-4, there's also no denying that one.

Power to beat tackles or shed blocks - If you've watched at least one game, you'd see he has the power to beat an OT around him, beat a Guard with an inside move. I think Miller's strength is very underrated, it might be due to the fact that hes mostly speed and doesn't have as big as size as you'd want in a DE. But no doubt he will over power and beat an O-lineman.

I don't get how you can say this kid tackles like hes playing two-hand touch, you don't win the Dick Butkus Award because you can't tackle. Can Miller bring down a Big Ben, I'd say so, he brought down Kaepernick and Ryan Mallet with ease, and both are just as big as Rothelisberger. In what little snaps hes shown in the Senior Bowl hes shown he can make plays, lets not forget he was named Defensive player of the game.

Close, its much closer than you think.

Size isn't everything, but to say Miller and Quinn have similar size is like saying DeSean Jackson and Andre Johnson have similar size. And Kaepernick and Big Ben are similar size? WHhhhhhhaaaaaatttttt?????? Big Ben is one of the strongest QBs to ever play the game, and is very difficult to bring down. Kaepernick has the smallest legs I've ever seen on a QB. Miller has things to like about him, but these size comparisons are preposterous.

I didn't say Quinn and Miller are the same size, I said Miller isn't that much smaller. And I didn't say, Kaepernick are similar in size, I said just as big, talk about putting word in mouth sheesh. No doubt Big Ben is probably the strongest QB in the NFL, but to really question if he Miller can bring down Big Ben is non sense, shoot, Robert Mathis 6'2" 235 sometimes has no trouble taking down Big Ben. Its about the angles and how off balance you are at the time when trying to bring Roethelisberger down, not just Miller, but pretty much every defender has a hard time bringing him down.

But to knock Miller for his size and suppose poor tackling (when in fact he has more tackles in his Jr. and Sr. year than Quinn does in his fresh and Soph years) is absurd. The two knocks on Miller for one, can be gained with proper nutrition, and two, can be coached. But I just don't know what you are looking at, when you knock him for his tackling, from every game I've seen of him he looks like a very sure tackler that wraps up before going for the big hit.

I just don't get the hype for Quinn, I'm not saying hes not any good, but one good year isn't enough to wow me. if anything, Ryan Kerrigan has been more consistent and productive than Quinn.

I've used this example in every Robert Quinn thread. How has Quinn remained a top10 talent through a year off while his teammate Marvin Austin(A preseason top15 talent) who suffered a year ban as well, has dropped all the way to the 2-3 round range in the same time frame? You have to take that into account when you evaluate our potential first round picks. Quinn is the only DE worth our #7 unless Bowers falls to us, but even then Quinn can do that "3rd or 4th thing" that Baalke talked about and drop into coverage, unlike Bowers.

To me in seems like a no contest that we need to take Quinn or trade back for Kerrigan, there don't seem to be any great DEs in the later rounds or even in free agency(lone exception to me is Ray Edwards). I know we need a CB but they played pretty damn well with all things considered and if we could get our hands on Aaron Williams, Brandon Burton, Jimmy Smith, Curtis Brown or Ras-I Dowling I would be just as stoked if we had drafted Amukamara. Then with the idea of drafting Miller, I dont want to have some unstoppable LB corp and a so front 3, remember we will probably not have Franklin around next year(based on the fact that we haven't given him an extension yet), and RJF isn't that great yet.

The best option for us is to is to draft a DE first, CB second, OLB 3rd, QB 4th.
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Quinn is 6'5" and 270, while Miller is 6'2" and 230. That is quite a difference when it comes to holding the edge. Don't know how much either could add but both are very quick. Just watching Quinn makes me think he has that extra burst. Very seldom does Sporting news use words like "shockingly productive." The year off doesn't really bother me.

He's not 230, but that's funny. Instead, he'll end up at a playing weight of 245, IMO. That's all he needs. Now Quinn is truly a specimine. I have already said that at the Combine, Quinn will keep his lead above Miller because of his size, speed and strength combo. I am sure he can be taught better technique and not argument that Quinn's upside is higher, heck he's at least 6'4" and 260 and possibly faster than Quinn and Matthews.

I just dig Miller's play and I do like Quinn, too. Like I said before either one would be a perfect fit for Fangio's D. Nice to have a possible choice in Dareus, Quinn, Miller and Amukamara. And if Gabbert jumps up like Sanchez, then we have some serious options, no?

How lucky though we are in having these guys as true options at #7. Really.

Sporting News list Miller at 237, but also has him going 3rd and Quinn going 11th. So, even though they really like Quinn, they see Miller as more likely to be picked early. Some of that could be the year off and character concerns. They have Austin going toward the bottom of the first or early second and Cameron Jordan is slated at 16.

Yes, it is nice to see how many choices the 9ers will have to improve their defense. I would still like to see them trade down and up for more late 1st or 2nd round picks if possible.

Edit: They (SN) have Dareus dropping out of the first round?! Haven't seen that elsewhere.

[ Edited by dtg_9er on Feb 3, 2011 at 20:11:18 ]
  • Kolohe
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  • Posts: 31,355
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Quinn is 6'5" and 270, while Miller is 6'2" and 230. That is quite a difference when it comes to holding the edge. Don't know how much either could add but both are very quick. Just watching Quinn makes me think he has that extra burst. Very seldom does Sporting news use words like "shockingly productive." The year off doesn't really bother me.

He's not 230, but that's funny. Instead, he'll end up at a playing weight of 245, IMO. That's all he needs. Now Quinn is truly a specimine. I have already said that at the Combine, Quinn will keep his lead above Miller because of his size, speed and strength combo. I am sure he can be taught better technique and not argument that Quinn's upside is higher, heck he's at least 6'4" and 260 and possibly faster than Quinn and Matthews.

I just dig Miller's play and I do like Quinn, too. Like I said before either one would be a perfect fit for Fangio's D. Nice to have a possible choice in Dareus, Quinn, Miller and Amukamara. And if Gabbert jumps up like Sanchez, then we have some serious options, no?

How lucky though we are in having these guys as true options at #7. Really.

Sporting News list Miller at 237, but also has him going 3rd and Quinn going 11th. So, even though they really like Quinn, they see Miller as more likely to be picked early. Some of that could be the year off and character concerns. They have Austin going toward the bottom of the first or early second and Cameron Jordan is slated at 16.

Yes, it is nice to see how many choices the 9ers will have to improve their defense. I would still like to see them trade down and up for more late 1st or 2nd round picks if possible.

Edit: They (SN) have Dareus dropping out of the first round?! Haven't seen that elsewhere.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

Why isn't it close???

There's a good amount of video on Quinn all over the internet (game video, not highlight compilations...real video--good plays and bad). The guy is just amazing. Size, speed, quickness, anticipation, play recognition, instincts, the power with which he tackles and hits people. He looks like Lawrence Taylor. This is in no way a nock on Miller (who I'm not a HUGE fan of due to his weak tackling...can he really bring down Big Ben or Steven Jackson???). Rather this is a reflection of my view of Quinn. No denying Miller's quickness and ability to get into the backfield. But Quinn, IMO, is a very very rare prospect.

Well the things you've listed Miller stacks up right next to Quinn:

Size - Well 6'2" 240 isn't that much smaller, James Harrison and Elvis Dumerville don't exactly have ideal size either.

Speed - No doubt Miller has that.

Quickness - No denying that one either.

Play recognition/anticipation - Miller has shown to recognize a screen and doesn't bite on play-action as easy. Hes also shown a variety moves to beat an O-lineman, inside or out.

Athleticism
- Miller is more than athletic enough to drop back into coverage or stand up in a 3-4, there's also no denying that one.

Power to beat tackles or shed blocks - If you've watched at least one game, you'd see he has the power to beat an OT around him, beat a Guard with an inside move. I think Miller's strength is very underrated, it might be due to the fact that hes mostly speed and doesn't have as big as size as you'd want in a DE. But no doubt he will over power and beat an O-lineman.

I don't get how you can say this kid tackles like hes playing two-hand touch, you don't win the Dick Butkus Award because you can't tackle. Can Miller bring down a Big Ben, I'd say so, he brought down Kaepernick and Ryan Mallet with ease, and both are just as big as Rothelisberger. In what little snaps hes shown in the Senior Bowl hes shown he can make plays, lets not forget he was named Defensive player of the game.

Close, its much closer than you think.

Size isn't everything, but to say Miller and Quinn have similar size is like saying DeSean Jackson and Andre Johnson have similar size. And Kaepernick and Big Ben are similar size? WHhhhhhhaaaaaatttttt?????? Big Ben is one of the strongest QBs to ever play the game, and is very difficult to bring down. Kaepernick has the smallest legs I've ever seen on a QB. Miller has things to like about him, but these size comparisons are preposterous.

I didn't say Quinn and Miller are the same size, I said Miller isn't that much smaller. And I didn't say, Kaepernick are similar in size, I said just as big, talk about putting word in mouth sheesh. No doubt Big Ben is probably the strongest QB in the NFL, but to really question if he Miller can bring down Big Ben is non sense, shoot, Robert Mathis 6'2" 235 sometimes has no trouble taking down Big Ben. Its about the angles and how off balance you are at the time when trying to bring Roethelisberger down, not just Miller, but pretty much every defender has a hard time bringing him down.

But to knock Miller for his size and suppose poor tackling (when in fact he has more tackles in his Jr. and Sr. year than Quinn does in his fresh and Soph years) is absurd. The two knocks on Miller for one, can be gained with proper nutrition, and two, can be coached. But I just don't know what you are looking at, when you knock him for his tackling, from every game I've seen of him he looks like a very sure tackler that wraps up before going for the big hit.

I just don't get the hype for Quinn, I'm not saying hes not any good, but one good year isn't enough to wow me. if anything, Ryan Kerrigan has been more consistent and productive than Quinn.

Just watch the guy play. When I talk about Miller's lack of tackling ability I'm talking about what I see, not only due to his size. He's not a wrap-up tackler. I don't know if it's a strength issue, an arm length issue, or just something else, but he doesn't always bring down the guy he gets to. Quinn on the other hand is such a devastating tackler. I just see a better player when I watch them.
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,304
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

Why isn't it close???

There's a good amount of video on Quinn all over the internet (game video, not highlight compilations...real video--good plays and bad). The guy is just amazing. Size, speed, quickness, anticipation, play recognition, instincts, the power with which he tackles and hits people. He looks like Lawrence Taylor. This is in no way a nock on Miller (who I'm not a HUGE fan of due to his weak tackling...can he really bring down Big Ben or Steven Jackson???). Rather this is a reflection of my view of Quinn. No denying Miller's quickness and ability to get into the backfield. But Quinn, IMO, is a very very rare prospect.

Well the things you've listed Miller stacks up right next to Quinn:

Size - Well 6'2" 240 isn't that much smaller, James Harrison and Elvis Dumerville don't exactly have ideal size either.

Speed - No doubt Miller has that.

Quickness - No denying that one either.

Play recognition/anticipation - Miller has shown to recognize a screen and doesn't bite on play-action as easy. Hes also shown a variety moves to beat an O-lineman, inside or out.

Athleticism
- Miller is more than athletic enough to drop back into coverage or stand up in a 3-4, there's also no denying that one.

Power to beat tackles or shed blocks - If you've watched at least one game, you'd see he has the power to beat an OT around him, beat a Guard with an inside move. I think Miller's strength is very underrated, it might be due to the fact that hes mostly speed and doesn't have as big as size as you'd want in a DE. But no doubt he will over power and beat an O-lineman.

I don't get how you can say this kid tackles like hes playing two-hand touch, you don't win the Dick Butkus Award because you can't tackle. Can Miller bring down a Big Ben, I'd say so, he brought down Kaepernick and Ryan Mallet with ease, and both are just as big as Rothelisberger. In what little snaps hes shown in the Senior Bowl hes shown he can make plays, lets not forget he was named Defensive player of the game.

Close, its much closer than you think.

Size isn't everything, but to say Miller and Quinn have similar size is like saying DeSean Jackson and Andre Johnson have similar size. And Kaepernick and Big Ben are similar size? WHhhhhhhaaaaaatttttt?????? Big Ben is one of the strongest QBs to ever play the game, and is very difficult to bring down. Kaepernick has the smallest legs I've ever seen on a QB. Miller has things to like about him, but these size comparisons are preposterous.

I didn't say Quinn and Miller are the same size, I said Miller isn't that much smaller. And I didn't say, Kaepernick are similar in size, I said just as big, talk about putting word in mouth sheesh. No doubt Big Ben is probably the strongest QB in the NFL, but to really question if he Miller can bring down Big Ben is non sense, shoot, Robert Mathis 6'2" 235 sometimes has no trouble taking down Big Ben. Its about the angles and how off balance you are at the time when trying to bring Roethelisberger down, not just Miller, but pretty much every defender has a hard time bringing him down.

But to knock Miller for his size and suppose poor tackling (when in fact he has more tackles in his Jr. and Sr. year than Quinn does in his fresh and Soph years) is absurd. The two knocks on Miller for one, can be gained with proper nutrition, and two, can be coached. But I just don't know what you are looking at, when you knock him for his tackling, from every game I've seen of him he looks like a very sure tackler that wraps up before going for the big hit.

I just don't get the hype for Quinn, I'm not saying hes not any good, but one good year isn't enough to wow me. if anything, Ryan Kerrigan has been more consistent and productive than Quinn.

Just watch the guy play. When I talk about Miller's lack of tackling ability I'm talking about what I see, not only due to his size. He's not a wrap-up tackler. I don't know if it's a strength issue, an arm length issue, or just something else, but he doesn't always bring down the guy he gets to. Quinn on the other hand is such a devastating tackler. I just see a better player when I watch them.

I havent watched a whole lot of Miller but what I saw in the senior bowl week showed he could tackle. The only "missed" tackle I saw him come up with was a diving attempt around a OT and he still caught the guys legs and tripped him up so he got tackled immediately by another LB. Miller's speed is the only major reason I want him, he provides the upper hand we would need against more athletic slot WRs and TEs. If you set him up with Willis and say hypothetically Bowman and Gibson that would one mean ass LB corp.

Again, I don't want a super dominate LB corp unless it completely overshadows our so so front 3. Other then Justin Smith none of our DEs have lived up to their potential. Sopoaga and MacDonald are great dependable situational players but we need to get some impact DEs right away. Then their is the issue at NT, I seriously doubt we franchise Franklin again and RJF is still such an enigma that I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted a NT and he came in and took the job from RJF.

Bottom line is that I would take a Quinn over Miller because the DE class is so much thinner then the OLB class. We can still find a great guy in the middle rounds to split time with Brooks if we let Lawson walk.
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

Why isn't it close???

There's a good amount of video on Quinn all over the internet (game video, not highlight compilations...real video--good plays and bad). The guy is just amazing. Size, speed, quickness, anticipation, play recognition, instincts, the power with which he tackles and hits people. He looks like Lawrence Taylor. This is in no way a nock on Miller (who I'm not a HUGE fan of due to his weak tackling...can he really bring down Big Ben or Steven Jackson???). Rather this is a reflection of my view of Quinn. No denying Miller's quickness and ability to get into the backfield. But Quinn, IMO, is a very very rare prospect.

Well the things you've listed Miller stacks up right next to Quinn:

Size - Well 6'2" 240 isn't that much smaller, James Harrison and Elvis Dumerville don't exactly have ideal size either.

Speed - No doubt Miller has that.

Quickness - No denying that one either.

Play recognition/anticipation - Miller has shown to recognize a screen and doesn't bite on play-action as easy. Hes also shown a variety moves to beat an O-lineman, inside or out.

Athleticism
- Miller is more than athletic enough to drop back into coverage or stand up in a 3-4, there's also no denying that one.

Power to beat tackles or shed blocks - If you've watched at least one game, you'd see he has the power to beat an OT around him, beat a Guard with an inside move. I think Miller's strength is very underrated, it might be due to the fact that hes mostly speed and doesn't have as big as size as you'd want in a DE. But no doubt he will over power and beat an O-lineman.

I don't get how you can say this kid tackles like hes playing two-hand touch, you don't win the Dick Butkus Award because you can't tackle. Can Miller bring down a Big Ben, I'd say so, he brought down Kaepernick and Ryan Mallet with ease, and both are just as big as Rothelisberger. In what little snaps hes shown in the Senior Bowl hes shown he can make plays, lets not forget he was named Defensive player of the game.

Close, its much closer than you think.

Size isn't everything, but to say Miller and Quinn have similar size is like saying DeSean Jackson and Andre Johnson have similar size. And Kaepernick and Big Ben are similar size? WHhhhhhhaaaaaatttttt?????? Big Ben is one of the strongest QBs to ever play the game, and is very difficult to bring down. Kaepernick has the smallest legs I've ever seen on a QB. Miller has things to like about him, but these size comparisons are preposterous.

I didn't say Quinn and Miller are the same size, I said Miller isn't that much smaller. And I didn't say, Kaepernick are similar in size, I said just as big, talk about putting word in mouth sheesh. No doubt Big Ben is probably the strongest QB in the NFL, but to really question if he Miller can bring down Big Ben is non sense, shoot, Robert Mathis 6'2" 235 sometimes has no trouble taking down Big Ben. Its about the angles and how off balance you are at the time when trying to bring Roethelisberger down, not just Miller, but pretty much every defender has a hard time bringing him down.

But to knock Miller for his size and suppose poor tackling (when in fact he has more tackles in his Jr. and Sr. year than Quinn does in his fresh and Soph years) is absurd. The two knocks on Miller for one, can be gained with proper nutrition, and two, can be coached. But I just don't know what you are looking at, when you knock him for his tackling, from every game I've seen of him he looks like a very sure tackler that wraps up before going for the big hit.

I just don't get the hype for Quinn, I'm not saying hes not any good, but one good year isn't enough to wow me. if anything, Ryan Kerrigan has been more consistent and productive than Quinn.

Just watch the guy play. When I talk about Miller's lack of tackling ability I'm talking about what I see, not only due to his size. He's not a wrap-up tackler. I don't know if it's a strength issue, an arm length issue, or just something else, but he doesn't always bring down the guy he gets to. Quinn on the other hand is such a devastating tackler. I just see a better player when I watch them.

I havent watched a whole lot of Miller but what I saw in the senior bowl week showed he could tackle. The only "missed" tackle I saw him come up with was a diving attempt around a OT and he still caught the guys legs and tripped him up so he got tackled immediately by another LB. Miller's speed is the only major reason I want him, he provides the upper hand we would need against more athletic slot WRs and TEs. If you set him up with Willis and say hypothetically Bowman and Gibson that would one mean ass LB corp.

Again, I don't want a super dominate LB corp unless it completely overshadows our so so front 3. Other then Justin Smith none of our DEs have lived up to their potential. Sopoaga and MacDonald are great dependable situational players but we need to get some impact DEs right away. Then their is the issue at NT, I seriously doubt we franchise Franklin again and RJF is still such an enigma that I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted a NT and he came in and took the job from RJF.

Bottom line is that I would take a Quinn over Miller because the DE class is so much thinner then the OLB class. We can still find a great guy in the middle rounds to split time with Brooks if we let Lawson walk.

Miller and Quinn would play the same position for us...
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

Why isn't it close???

There's a good amount of video on Quinn all over the internet (game video, not highlight compilations...real video--good plays and bad). The guy is just amazing. Size, speed, quickness, anticipation, play recognition, instincts, the power with which he tackles and hits people. He looks like Lawrence Taylor. This is in no way a nock on Miller (who I'm not a HUGE fan of due to his weak tackling...can he really bring down Big Ben or Steven Jackson???). Rather this is a reflection of my view of Quinn. No denying Miller's quickness and ability to get into the backfield. But Quinn, IMO, is a very very rare prospect.

Well the things you've listed Miller stacks up right next to Quinn:

Size - Well 6'2" 240 isn't that much smaller, James Harrison and Elvis Dumerville don't exactly have ideal size either.

Speed - No doubt Miller has that.

Quickness - No denying that one either.

Play recognition/anticipation - Miller has shown to recognize a screen and doesn't bite on play-action as easy. Hes also shown a variety moves to beat an O-lineman, inside or out.

Athleticism
- Miller is more than athletic enough to drop back into coverage or stand up in a 3-4, there's also no denying that one.

Power to beat tackles or shed blocks - If you've watched at least one game, you'd see he has the power to beat an OT around him, beat a Guard with an inside move. I think Miller's strength is very underrated, it might be due to the fact that hes mostly speed and doesn't have as big as size as you'd want in a DE. But no doubt he will over power and beat an O-lineman.

I don't get how you can say this kid tackles like hes playing two-hand touch, you don't win the Dick Butkus Award because you can't tackle. Can Miller bring down a Big Ben, I'd say so, he brought down Kaepernick and Ryan Mallet with ease, and both are just as big as Rothelisberger. In what little snaps hes shown in the Senior Bowl hes shown he can make plays, lets not forget he was named Defensive player of the game.

Close, its much closer than you think.

Size isn't everything, but to say Miller and Quinn have similar size is like saying DeSean Jackson and Andre Johnson have similar size. And Kaepernick and Big Ben are similar size? WHhhhhhhaaaaaatttttt?????? Big Ben is one of the strongest QBs to ever play the game, and is very difficult to bring down. Kaepernick has the smallest legs I've ever seen on a QB. Miller has things to like about him, but these size comparisons are preposterous.

I didn't say Quinn and Miller are the same size, I said Miller isn't that much smaller. And I didn't say, Kaepernick are similar in size, I said just as big, talk about putting word in mouth sheesh. No doubt Big Ben is probably the strongest QB in the NFL, but to really question if he Miller can bring down Big Ben is non sense, shoot, Robert Mathis 6'2" 235 sometimes has no trouble taking down Big Ben. Its about the angles and how off balance you are at the time when trying to bring Roethelisberger down, not just Miller, but pretty much every defender has a hard time bringing him down.

But to knock Miller for his size and suppose poor tackling (when in fact he has more tackles in his Jr. and Sr. year than Quinn does in his fresh and Soph years) is absurd. The two knocks on Miller for one, can be gained with proper nutrition, and two, can be coached. But I just don't know what you are looking at, when you knock him for his tackling, from every game I've seen of him he looks like a very sure tackler that wraps up before going for the big hit.

I just don't get the hype for Quinn, I'm not saying hes not any good, but one good year isn't enough to wow me. if anything, Ryan Kerrigan has been more consistent and productive than Quinn.

C'mon Kolohe - you can't compare their tackle numbers. One played DE exclusively while the other played OLB in 3-4.

Quinn didn't have just 1 good year - he had a pretty good 1st year as well. He missed couple of games and started the year slow (for obvious reasons - he was 18) but towards the end - he was averaging 5 tackles a game. For a DE - that's a pretty good number.

He put up 50+ tackles and 11 sacks and 2 FF in his year 2. Again, for a DE - 50+ tackles is amazing. Von Miller didn't cross 50 tackles till his senior year, and he is an OLB.
I like the fact that Von actually played this last year. Maybe this isn't a good comparison, but I remember how bad Mike Williams was after taking a year off. That whole senario with Quinn being suspended has me nervous. Like I said maybe it's a non issue. Mike's main problem was that he was lazy and had caracter issues. Still I would rather go for the guy who is 100% clean on and off the field.

[ Edited by GorefullBore on Feb 4, 2011 at 02:15:02 ]
Originally posted by GorefullBore:
I like the fact that Von actually played this last year. Maybe this isn't a good comparison, but I remember how bad Mike Williams was after taking a year off. That whole senario with Quinn being suspended has me nervous. Like I said maybe it's a non issue. Mike's main problem was that he was lazy and had caracter issues. Still I would rather go for the guy who is 100% clean on and off the field.

he didnt have legal problems just took sponsership or something like that so its not like he has bad character
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by GorefullBore:
I like the fact that Von actually played this last year. Maybe this isn't a good comparison, but I remember how bad Mike Williams was after taking a year off. That whole senario with Quinn being suspended has me nervous. Like I said maybe it's a non issue. Mike's main problem was that he was lazy and had caracter issues. Still I would rather go for the guy who is 100% clean on and off the field.

he didnt have legal problems just took sponsership or something like that so its not like he has bad character

best buds with balmer lol
Originally posted by GorefullBore:
I like the fact that Von actually played this last year. Maybe this isn't a good comparison, but I remember how bad Mike Williams was after taking a year off. That whole senario with Quinn being suspended has me nervous. Like I said maybe it's a non issue. Mike's main problem was that he was lazy and had caracter issues. Still I would rather go for the guy who is 100% clean on and off the field.

Really bad comparison but we'll soon see in what shape Quinn has stayed in. Maybe I'm just a sucker but I can't see a guy who almost died being a slacker. And not the way Robert carries himself doesn't strike me as a character problem.
Originally posted by GorefullBore:
I like the fact that Von actually played this last year. Maybe this isn't a good comparison, but I remember how bad Mike Williams was after taking a year off. That whole senario with Quinn being suspended has me nervous. Like I said maybe it's a non issue. Mike's main problem was that he was lazy and had caracter issues. Still I would rather go for the guy who is 100% clean on and off the field.


[ Edited by RollinWith21n52 on Feb 4, 2011 at 06:43:06 ]