The Christian Ponder Bandwagon

Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:

Originally posted by DynastyPart2:

Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Before I say something which I have been opining on for a long time now, I refer back to something that will lend more credibility to my thinking on this.

Mayock said something on point last week on the NFLN. Billick had just said that Gabbert was a first round franchise talent, but taking him in the top five was way too early.

Maycock said that if you rate a QB as franchise caliber (and Billick was saying that Gabbert was) and your team needa QB, why wouldn't you take him in the top five. Exactly!

Why p***y foot around playing Russian roulette with your team's future; gambling that your QB will fall to a lower round. If you haven't yet realised that QB, more than any other position, will make or break your team, you shouldn't even be in the discussion. We as Niners fans surely must realise that. The Niners actually have no real idea on how good their roster is because of poor play out of the QB position. They've just been treading water for the past six years. Waiting.

Not saying that Ponder is the guy. But if the Niners think he has franchise potential, they have to be pro active in getting him. And if he is the ONLY one they believe has franchise potential, they should pick him at the first opportunity, even if it is #7. If there are several who they think have franchise potential, then they can afford to wait. But they have to have all the elements in place to move up (or down) to get the franchise guy as soon as there is only one remaining on the board.

In another post where it was suggested: Ponder in the second, I speculated that he would not be there when we picked in the second. Now, after his combine, and the hype he is getting, he is no longer going to be flying under the radar. He's probably a late first rounder at the latest. The Niners have to be prepared for that scenario and make their move.

Totally agree.

It's almost like what the Jets did with Sanchez and what Tampa did w/ Freeman.

Each team knew the guy they wanted and weren't willing to sit back and hope he falls, which they most certainly could have. Sure it was considered too high at the time for each pick, but i'm sure each of those franchises (especially Tampa) is very thankful they chose the qb they wanted as soon as they could afford to do so.

Just curious...are you guys saying we should pick Ponder at #7?

I'm not saying we should. I'm not saying we have to. I'm saying if we feel he won't last too much past that, then either we take him at 7 or we trade up from the 2nd into the middle of round 1 to do so.

I don't think there's many that would argue Ponder is the most talented qb in this draft when healthy. If an NFL team feels that way, don't be surprised if someone snags him early.

This happens EVERY combine. Someone has great workouts and everyone forgets about what he has done for the past 3 or 4 years. Ponder has been good lately; Senior Bowl and the Combine, but don't forget about what he did for the past 4 years.

I like the guy, but to pick him at #7 is just crazy!

Now, I do agree that if we want to get Ponder we will have to consider trading up into the bottom of the 1st or top of the 2nd to get him. But to draft him over a blue chip player like Peterson, Quinn, Miller, Dareus, or Amukamara is asking for your owner to fire you if you don't hit a homerun!

So, you better hope that Ponder is the next Joe Montana if you make a bold move like that! If not, it's the unemployment line or NFLN analyst for you!

Um, Ponder was highly regarded as the top qb in the draft before he injured his elbow this year. Now that he's healthy and looking as good as ever after dominating the sr. bowl (mvp) and spinning it at the combine, there's no reason to think he shouldn't be back in the consideration for top qb.

I don't recall reading anything about him being considered as a first round QB, much less the top rated QB. From what I remember, Luck was the consensus #1 all year before he decided not to declare. Can you link me to anything? Not trying to be a smart a##, I really would like to read something from a respected analyst/journalist/draft expert who listed Ponder as a first round talent before his injuries.

But, the fact still remains; Ponder is not as good as the top 7 players listed on most draft "experts" big board.

So, if you are the GM of an NFL team. Are you willing to bet your job on Ponder being a HOMERUN? You better hope so, because if he is not Sam Bradford, Matt Ryan, or even Mark Sanchez, you can pack your bags.

Unless the CBA is settled before the draft, I think there will be a premium placed on QB position and these guys will go a lot higher than they would under ordinary circumstances. Just too many QB starved teams.

Originally posted by DynastyPart2:

Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:

Originally posted by DynastyPart2:

Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Before I say something which I have been opining on for a long time now, I refer back to something that will lend more credibility to my thinking on this.

Mayock said something on point last week on the NFLN. Billick had just said that Gabbert was a first round franchise talent, but taking him in the top five was way too early.

Maycock said that if you rate a QB as franchise caliber (and Billick was saying that Gabbert was) and your team needa QB, why wouldn't you take him in the top five. Exactly!

Why p***y foot around playing Russian roulette with your team's future; gambling that your QB will fall to a lower round. If you haven't yet realised that QB, more than any other position, will make or break your team, you shouldn't even be in the discussion. We as Niners fans surely must realise that. The Niners actually have no real idea on how good their roster is because of poor play out of the QB position. They've just been treading water for the past six years. Waiting.

Not saying that Ponder is the guy. But if the Niners think he has franchise potential, they have to be pro active in getting him. And if he is the ONLY one they believe has franchise potential, they should pick him at the first opportunity, even if it is #7. If there are several who they think have franchise potential, then they can afford to wait. But they have to have all the elements in place to move up (or down) to get the franchise guy as soon as there is only one remaining on the board.

In another post where it was suggested: Ponder in the second, I speculated that he would not be there when we picked in the second. Now, after his combine, and the hype he is getting, he is no longer going to be flying under the radar. He's probably a late first rounder at the latest. The Niners have to be prepared for that scenario and make their move.

Totally agree.

It's almost like what the Jets did with Sanchez and what Tampa did w/ Freeman.

Each team knew the guy they wanted and weren't willing to sit back and hope he falls, which they most certainly could have. Sure it was considered too high at the time for each pick, but i'm sure each of those franchises (especially Tampa) is very thankful they chose the qb they wanted as soon as they could afford to do so.

Just curious...are you guys saying we should pick Ponder at #7?

I'm not saying we should. I'm not saying we have to. I'm saying if we feel he won't last too much past that, then either we take him at 7 or we trade up from the 2nd into the middle of round 1 to do so.

I don't think there's many that would argue Ponder is the most talented qb in this draft when healthy. If an NFL team feels that way, don't be surprised if someone snags him early.

This happens EVERY combine. Someone has great workouts and everyone forgets about what he has done for the past 3 or 4 years. Ponder has been good lately; Senior Bowl and the Combine, but don't forget about what he did for the past 4 years.

I like the guy, but to pick him at #7 is just crazy!

Now, I do agree that if we want to get Ponder we will have to consider trading up into the bottom of the 1st or top of the 2nd to get him. But to draft him over a blue chip player like Peterson, Quinn, Miller, Dareus, or Amukamara is asking for your owner to fire you if you don't hit a homerun!

So, you better hope that Ponder is the next Joe Montana if you make a bold move like that! If not, it's the unemployment line or NFLN analyst for you!

Um, Ponder was highly regarded as the top qb in the draft before he injured his elbow this year. Now that he's healthy and looking as good as ever after dominating the sr. bowl (mvp) and spinning it at the combine, there's no reason to think he shouldn't be back in the consideration for top qb.

I don't recall reading anything about him being considered as a first round QB, much less the top rated QB. From what I remember, Luck was the consensus #1 all year before he decided not to declare. Can you link me to anything? Not trying to be a smart a##, I really would like to read something from a respected analyst/journalist/draft expert who listed Ponder as a first round talent before his injuries.

But, the fact still remains; Ponder is not as good as the top 7 players listed on most draft "experts" big board.

So, if you are the GM of an NFL team. Are you willing to bet your job on Ponder being a HOMERUN? You better hope so, because if he is not Sam Bradford, Matt Ryan, or even Mark Sanchez, you can pack your bags.

Ponder a top 2011 prospect
Ponder vs Locker for 2011 top spot

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Before I say something which I have been opining on for a long time now, I refer back to something that will lend more credibility to my thinking on this.

Mayock said something on point last week on the NFLN. Billick had just said that Gabbert was a first round franchise talent, but taking him in the top five was way too early.

Maycock said that if you rate a QB as franchise caliber (and Billick was saying that Gabbert was) and your team needa QB, why wouldn't you take him in the top five. Exactly!

Why p***y foot around playing Russian roulette with your team's future; gambling that your QB will fall to a lower round. If you haven't yet realised that QB, more than any other position, will make or break your team, you shouldn't even be in the discussion. We as Niners fans surely must realise that. The Niners actually have no real idea on how good their roster is because of poor play out of the QB position. They've just been treading water for the past six years. Waiting.

Not saying that Ponder is the guy. But if the Niners think he has franchise potential, they have to be pro active in getting him. And if he is the ONLY one they believe has franchise potential, they should pick him at the first opportunity, even if it is #7. If there are several who they think have franchise potential, then they can afford to wait. But they have to have all the elements in place to move up (or down) to get the franchise guy as soon as there is only one remaining on the board.

In another post where it was suggested: Ponder in the second, I speculated that he would not be there when we picked in the second. Now, after his combine, and the hype he is getting, he is no longer going to be flying under the radar. He's probably a late first rounder at the latest. The Niners have to be prepared for that scenario and make their move.

Totally agree.

It's almost like what the Jets did with Sanchez and what Tampa did w/ Freeman.

Each team knew the guy they wanted and weren't willing to sit back and hope he falls, which they most certainly could have. Sure it was considered too high at the time for each pick, but i'm sure each of those franchises (especially Tampa) is very thankful they chose the qb they wanted as soon as they could afford to do so.

Just curious...are you guys saying we should pick Ponder at #7?

IF the Niners have him rated as the ONLY franchise QB in the class, and no one else is close, then IMO . . . yes.

I'm not the Niners, so I cannot speak to their board, but I would guess that he is not the only franchise rated QB on the board, or a can't-miss prospect with no-one close. I suspect that they have at least a couple of QB's in the "I want" category. In this case hold tight and get your elite guy, IF he is there. Or entertain trade scenarios.

A plausible scenario , if it were me ( I mentioned in another thread), would be to trade down a few spots pick up an extra selection and draft someone good, but not in the Quinn/Perterson elite class. Then package the extra selection and your second to trade back into the late first/early second and nab your QB. This scenario would work for me, if (i) I could find a trading partner, and (ii) all of my 2/3 elite players are off the board come #7 (very likely). There are an AWFUL lot of REALLY great players you could still reach with a first pick in the teens.

The Niners better have their ducks in line so that a trade scenario is executable in short order. Like I said, getting a high potentional QB early is a must IMO. Ponder, Kapearnick, Stanzi, Locker . . . whoever they rate in that category.

From all I've seen (and heard) of Ponder; from his strengths-to-weaknesses, he'd be a superstar in our WCO.

Very sharp/intelligent dude with pro-level instincts, was micro-managing a pro-offense in college ala Peyton Manning. All the bashing on his arm strength has been overzealous, kid reminds me A LOT of Philip Rivers.

Would not be surprised (AT ALL) if we end up trading back in the first for Ponder + more picks.

Some people have been knocking Christian Ponder's arm strength, but I didn't see any issues during the Combine. I thought he did very well.

Originally posted by DynastyPart2:


I don't recall reading anything about him being considered as a first round QB, much less the top rated QB. From what I remember, Luck was the consensus #1 all year before he decided not to declare. Can you link me to anything? Not trying to be a smart a##, I really would like to read something from a respected analyst/journalist/draft expert who listed Ponder as a first round talent before his injuries.

But, the fact still remains; Ponder is not as good as the top 7 players listed on most draft "experts" big board.

So, if you are the GM of an NFL team. Are you willing to bet your job on Ponder being a HOMERUN? You better hope so, because if he is not Sam Bradford, Matt Ryan, or even Mark Sanchez, you can pack your bags.

Swag has directed you to some sources. I can't, but I pretty much recall that Locker was in the "first overall" talk. Not so much this year. So you can never tell.

It is also difficult to equate/compare talent and "good"-ness at widely dissimilar positions. I go with mayocks reasoning. QB is the most important position on the team. If you don't have one and you identify a franchise prospect, you get him at ANY spot. Not saying that Ponder is that guy, but the Niners have to decide.

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:

Originally posted by DynastyPart2:


I don't recall reading anything about him being considered as a first round QB, much less the top rated QB. From what I remember, Luck was the consensus #1 all year before he decided not to declare. Can you link me to anything? Not trying to be a smart a##, I really would like to read something from a respected analyst/journalist/draft expert who listed Ponder as a first round talent before his injuries.

But, the fact still remains; Ponder is not as good as the top 7 players listed on most draft "experts" big board.

So, if you are the GM of an NFL team. Are you willing to bet your job on Ponder being a HOMERUN? You better hope so, because if he is not Sam Bradford, Matt Ryan, or even Mark Sanchez, you can pack your bags.

Swag has directed you to some sources. I can't, but I pretty much recall that Locker was in the "first overall" talk. Not so much this year. So you can never tell.

It is also difficult to equate/compare talent and "good"-ness at widely dissimilar positions. I go with mayocks reasoning. QB is the most important position on the team. If you don't have one and you identify a franchise prospect, you get him at ANY spot. Not saying that Ponder is that guy, but the Niners have to decide.

Thats why i've ranked Stanzi and Ponder at the top of my rankings all this time. I feel they are the best at their position. If qb is the most important position in the nfl, which it is, then why would i not have them at the very top?

Again, not saying we should or would draft Ponder at number 7, but if we did, i know why we did and im 100% ok with it.

Good to see we're on the same wavelength with this school of thought, Rsrkshn.

Originally posted by PTulini:
Some people have been knocking Christian Ponder's arm strength, but I didn't see any issues during the Combine. I thought he did very well.

Originally posted by PTulini:
Some people have been knocking Christian Ponder's arm strength, but I didn't see any issues during the Combine. I thought he did very well.

I didn't see any flaws with his deep ball. In fact, I thought all the top graded QB's showed plenty of arm today.

The big question will be the results of his 3 hour MRI this weekend on his shoulder, which will never be revealed to the public, but only to teams. This will be huge in his final draft grade, and makes him virtually impossible to accurately predict where he will land. If he has a clean bill of health, then he is a second rounder. If not, who knows how fall he drops.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by PTulini:
Some people have been knocking Christian Ponder's arm strength, but I didn't see any issues during the Combine. I thought he did very well.

I didn't see any flaws with his deep ball. In fact, I thought all the top graded QB's showed plenty of arm today.

The big question will be the results of his 3 hour MRI this weekend on his shoulder, which will never be revealed to the public, but only to teams. This will be huge in his final draft grade, and makes him virtually impossible to accurately predict where he will land. If he has a clean bill of health, then he is a second rounder. If not, who knows how fall he drops.

What kind of results are you thinkin MD? He has been productive post injuries so what sort of MRI results WOULD worry teams?

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by PTulini:
Some people have been knocking Christian Ponder's arm strength, but I didn't see any issues during the Combine. I thought he did very well.

I didn't see any flaws with his deep ball. In fact, I thought all the top graded QB's showed plenty of arm today.

The big question will be the results of his 3 hour MRI this weekend on his shoulder, which will never be revealed to the public, but only to teams. This will be huge in his final draft grade, and makes him virtually impossible to accurately predict where he will land. If he has a clean bill of health, then he is a second rounder. If not, who knows how fall he drops.

What is the absolute highest you think he can rise MD? How high would the Niners need to trade up (from 45)/back (from 7) to ensure they get him?

Swag,

Thanks for the links to SI articles.

I think we both agree that we both like Ponder.

I don't want to see us drafting Ponder at #7. He is not a "can't miss" prospect. Typically players taken in the top ten are supposed to be "can't miss". As we all know, this doesn't always work out (Alex Smith). But, Ponder has several questions about him (injuries, arm strength). To me, you don't take a player with those types of questions in the top 10.

I would like to see the 49ers take Peterson, Quinn, Miller, Amukamara (in that order). If they are not able to get any of the 4, then I say trade down and get Ponder.

What would be ideal is that we draft Peterson in the first and then get Ponder in the second without having to move up, but that's not going to happen.

I'm guessing that Ponder will already be off the board when we pick at #45.
The Sea chickens, at #25, also need a QB. And the Panthers, Bills, Cardinals, Titans, Redskins, and Vikings all need a QB, and all pick before we do in the 2nd round.

Originally posted by mebemused:
I'm guessing that Ponder will already be off the board when we pick at #45.
The Sea chickens, at #25, also need a QB. And the Panthers, Bills, Cardinals, Titans, Redskins, and Vikings all need a QB, and all pick before we do in the 2nd round.

There could be two less teams if two of them choose Gabbert and Newton.

Also, a lot of people say Ponder fits the WCO the best. I believe out of all those teams only the Seahawks do so they could be the biggest threat.