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What do y'all think of Cam Newton?

Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by jojomellon:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by smifunk:
people are trying to take this guy down and maybe he deserves it based on the number of allegations out there.

Not a fan of his. He's not going to be a good QB IMO. Too much of a runner first and he seems stupid and he seems like a fraud.


Well you just proved you know ZERO about him.
Nah, weve seen him play. Nothing about him translates to the NFL. Maybe Denard Robinson will make a goof NFL qb too>? Or Pat White or Michael Robinson or Josh Cribbs.

Yeah your comparing short quick QBs with average arms to newton who is 6'6", with a rocket arm. The comparison is Vince Yong, and he is a pretty good nfl QB.

So because he plays in a gimmick offense where he takes off and runs all the time, and because he probably took 200 grand or whatever to play while acting like a completely nice and genuine guy, that proves he's not a stupid and he's not a fraud? Are you kidding?

Hold on a second here bro.

First of all: I'd like you to prove to me how he is stupid and a fraud. You can't just throw around statements like these and not back them up with a logical argument. These unsubstantiated claims you made don't need to be dis-proven by anybody, it's the other way around.

Second of all: You need to learn to follow the course of the argument or else you will be confused, like you are here. The poster was not even addressing your statements about him being stupid and a fraud. He was rebutting you and the other posters claim that Cam Newton does not have what it takes to be an nfl QB.

Third of all: Don't put words in the opposing posters mouth and then condescendingly dismiss that argument without even addressing the points he actually made. This is an egregious example of something called "building a straw man" and it succeeds in nothing except making the poster look like foolish.
[ Edited by AllTimeGreat on Nov 12, 2010 at 10:34 PM ]
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by jojomellon:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by smifunk:
people are trying to take this guy down and maybe he deserves it based on the number of allegations out there.

Not a fan of his. He's not going to be a good QB IMO. Too much of a runner first and he seems stupid and he seems like a fraud.


Well you just proved you know ZERO about him.
Nah, weve seen him play. Nothing about him translates to the NFL. Maybe Denard Robinson will make a goof NFL qb too>? Or Pat White or Michael Robinson or Josh Cribbs.

Yeah your comparing short quick QBs with average arms to newton who is 6'6", with a rocket arm. The comparison is Vince Yong, and he is a pretty good nfl QB.

So because he plays in a gimmick offense where he takes off and runs all the time, and because he probably took 200 grand or whatever to play while acting like a completely nice and genuine guy, that proves he's not a stupid and he's not a fraud? Are you kidding?

Hold on a second here bro.

First of all: I'd like you to prove to me how he is stupid and a fraud. You can't just throw around statements like these and not back them up with a logical argument. These unsubstantiated claims you made don't need to be dis-proven by anybody, it's the other way around.

Second of all: You need to learn to follow the course of the argument or else you will be confused, like you are here. The poster was not even addressing your statements about him being stupid and a fraud. He was rebutting you and the other posters claim that Cam Newton does not have what it takes to be an nfl QB.

Third of all: Don't put words in the opposing posters mouth and then condescendingly dismiss that argument without even addressing the points he actually made. This is an egregious example of something called "building a straw man" and it succeeds in nothing except making the poster look like foolish.

Dude I don't usually like to say someone's guilty of something before they're proven but I would venture to guess he is here. Multiple former players have said his dad was asking for money, the FBI is now getting involved, his family has supposedly hired a lawyer to prevent the NCAA from looking at their bank stuff(atleast according to a post I read on here IIRC), there are supposedly 2 phone calls that prove he was asking for money, and supposedly he was a thief and a cheater at Florida. Those are too many allegations for me to believe that something bad wasn't going on. Furthermore, I do not believe a high character player does all of those things. Meanwhile, when he has been on interviewed on channels such as ESPN, he has seemed like he tries overly hard to be respectful etc. To me, that is being a fraud. If someone's going to be a jackass, I'd rather just know they are like a Rasheed Wallace or Allen Iverson or Phillip Rivers.

As to what makes me believe he will not be a successfull QB, he plays in a gimmicky offense. He takes many snaps out of the shotgun and while he can make many throws I don't believe he'll be able to read defenses in the NFL from a pro style offense. He also looks more like an overly big running back who can throw the ball half the time than a QB, and while that works in college it doesn't always work in the NFL. In college the opposing D might have 2-3 guys as fast as him at most, in the NFL there will be 5 or 6 on majority of teams and he won't as much success running. Also, in the NFL the players are bigger and stronger so he will be more of an injury risk if he keeps taking so many shots. If you look at the teams he played, the 3-4 teams he did play that are good he didn't do much through the air, he did most of the damage on the ground with his legs while not turning the ball over. That doesn't really work in the NFL.

The only reason I got condescending with him was because I felt like he did when he said "Vince Young, and yeah he's a pretty good QB", and when he said I know zero of Newton when I have watched him 3-4 times atleast. I'm just not a fan because I don't like the spread QBs in college who run around a ton. The only one I really liked so far is Colt McCoy, and I actually kind of like Thomas for Oregon. I would much rather have a QB like Luck or Mallett who drops back and you can build a team around their arm, so they can get the ball to 3-4 of your playmakers. Much easier to focus your D on one guy such as Cam Newton than try to defend all of a teams options. Even Mike Vick had to become more of a pocket passer who could freakishly run before he really became successfull. I would even rather have a QB like Locker who has taken apart a D like USC even though he's had more bad games than Newton. I also like Stanzi a lot, because the team has won games on his arm.
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by jojomellon:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by smifunk:
people are trying to take this guy down and maybe he deserves it based on the number of allegations out there.

Not a fan of his. He's not going to be a good QB IMO. Too much of a runner first and he seems stupid and he seems like a fraud.


Well you just proved you know ZERO about him.
Nah, weve seen him play. Nothing about him translates to the NFL. Maybe Denard Robinson will make a goof NFL qb too>? Or Pat White or Michael Robinson or Josh Cribbs.

Yeah your comparing short quick QBs with average arms to newton who is 6'6", with a rocket arm. The comparison is Vince Yong, and he is a pretty good nfl QB.

So because he plays in a gimmick offense where he takes off and runs all the time, and because he probably took 200 grand or whatever to play while acting like a completely nice and genuine guy, that proves he's not a stupid and he's not a fraud? Are you kidding?

Hold on a second here bro.

First of all: I'd like you to prove to me how he is stupid and a fraud. You can't just throw around statements like these and not back them up with a logical argument. These unsubstantiated claims you made don't need to be dis-proven by anybody, it's the other way around.

Second of all: You need to learn to follow the course of the argument or else you will be confused, like you are here. The poster was not even addressing your statements about him being stupid and a fraud. He was rebutting you and the other posters claim that Cam Newton does not have what it takes to be an nfl QB.

Third of all: Don't put words in the opposing posters mouth and then condescendingly dismiss that argument without even addressing the points he actually made. This is an egregious example of something called "building a straw man" and it succeeds in nothing except making the poster look like foolish.

Dude I don't usually like to say someone's guilty of something before they're proven but I would venture to guess he is here. Multiple former players have said his dad was asking for money, the FBI is now getting involved, his family has supposedly hired a lawyer to prevent the NCAA from looking at their bank stuff(atleast according to a post I read on here IIRC), there are supposedly 2 phone calls that prove he was asking for money, and supposedly he was a thief and a cheater at Florida. Those are too many allegations for me to believe that something bad wasn't going on. Furthermore, I do not believe a high character player does all of those things. Meanwhile, when he has been on interviewed on channels such as ESPN, he has seemed like he tries overly hard to be respectful etc. To me, that is being a fraud. If someone's going to be a jackass, I'd rather just know they are like a Rasheed Wallace or Allen Iverson or Phillip Rivers.

As to what makes me believe he will not be a successfull QB, he plays in a gimmicky offense. He takes many snaps out of the shotgun and while he can make many throws I don't believe he'll be able to read defenses in the NFL from a pro style offense. He also looks more like an overly big running back who can throw the ball half the time than a QB, and while that works in college it doesn't always work in the NFL. In college the opposing D might have 2-3 guys as fast as him at most, in the NFL there will be 5 or 6 on majority of teams and he won't as much success running. Also, in the NFL the players are bigger and stronger so he will be more of an injury risk if he keeps taking so many shots. If you look at the teams he played, the 3-4 teams he did play that are good he didn't do much through the air, he did most of the damage on the ground with his legs while not turning the ball over. That doesn't really work in the NFL.

The only reason I got condescending with him was because I felt like he did when he said "Vince Young, and yeah he's a pretty good QB", and when he said I know zero of Newton when I have watched him 3-4 times atleast. I'm just not a fan because I don't like the spread QBs in college who run around a ton. The only one I really liked so far is Colt McCoy, and I actually kind of like Thomas for Oregon. I would much rather have a QB like Luck or Mallett who drops back and you can build a team around their arm, so they can get the ball to 3-4 of your playmakers. Much easier to focus your D on one guy such as Cam Newton than try to defend all of a teams options. Even Mike Vick had to become more of a pocket passer who could freakishly run before he really became successfull. I would even rather have a QB like Locker who has taken apart a D like USC even though he's had more bad games than Newton. I also like Stanzi a lot, because the team has won games on his arm.

Your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs both are very fair critiques of Cam Newton. I don't know enough about him to carry on with this discussion, my post was more in response to your argumentation method and lack of substance in backing up the claims you did.

If your critique had been based off of his skill, I would not have a had a big problem with it. My problem was that you called him "stupid" and a "fraud." That's moving beyond football critique into personal grudge level. It would be entirely different thing to say "I don't think he has the ability to read defenses at the next level which he'll have to do since he won't be able to take off and run if his first option isn't there in the NFL or else he'll get killed. I also have major concerns about his character given the NCAA investigation." I knew you were a better poster than that, which you proved in your response to me.

About your first paragraph, I don't know very much about it. I have a few questions out of curiosity. Were the two phone calls involving Cam or his Dad? And also were there more incidences of Cam being a thief other than the whole "bought a stolen laptop" thing?

Thanks.
is this guy a good passing QB or is he just a runner?
  • Jcool
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,900
Originally posted by DANADA:
is this guy a good passing QB or is he just a runner?

He has the ability to be a good passing QB which is why he will be drafted high when he comes out but right now he is a better runner then he is passer
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by jojomellon:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by smifunk:
people are trying to take this guy down and maybe he deserves it based on the number of allegations out there.

Not a fan of his. He's not going to be a good QB IMO. Too much of a runner first and he seems stupid and he seems like a fraud.


Well you just proved you know ZERO about him.
Nah, weve seen him play. Nothing about him translates to the NFL. Maybe Denard Robinson will make a goof NFL qb too>? Or Pat White or Michael Robinson or Josh Cribbs.

Yeah your comparing short quick QBs with average arms to newton who is 6'6", with a rocket arm. The comparison is Vince Yong, and he is a pretty good nfl QB.

So because he plays in a gimmick offense where he takes off and runs all the time, and because he probably took 200 grand or whatever to play while acting like a completely nice and genuine guy, that proves he's not a stupid and he's not a fraud? Are you kidding?

Hold on a second here bro.

First of all: I'd like you to prove to me how he is stupid and a fraud. You can't just throw around statements like these and not back them up with a logical argument. These unsubstantiated claims you made don't need to be dis-proven by anybody, it's the other way around.

Second of all: You need to learn to follow the course of the argument or else you will be confused, like you are here. The poster was not even addressing your statements about him being stupid and a fraud. He was rebutting you and the other posters claim that Cam Newton does not have what it takes to be an nfl QB.

Third of all: Don't put words in the opposing posters mouth and then condescendingly dismiss that argument without even addressing the points he actually made. This is an egregious example of something called "building a straw man" and it succeeds in nothing except making the poster look like foolish.

Dude I don't usually like to say someone's guilty of something before they're proven but I would venture to guess he is here. Multiple former players have said his dad was asking for money, the FBI is now getting involved, his family has supposedly hired a lawyer to prevent the NCAA from looking at their bank stuff(atleast according to a post I read on here IIRC), there are supposedly 2 phone calls that prove he was asking for money, and supposedly he was a thief and a cheater at Florida. Those are too many allegations for me to believe that something bad wasn't going on. Furthermore, I do not believe a high character player does all of those things. Meanwhile, when he has been on interviewed on channels such as ESPN, he has seemed like he tries overly hard to be respectful etc. To me, that is being a fraud. If someone's going to be a jackass, I'd rather just know they are like a Rasheed Wallace or Allen Iverson or Phillip Rivers.

As to what makes me believe he will not be a successfull QB, he plays in a gimmicky offense. He takes many snaps out of the shotgun and while he can make many throws I don't believe he'll be able to read defenses in the NFL from a pro style offense. He also looks more like an overly big running back who can throw the ball half the time than a QB, and while that works in college it doesn't always work in the NFL. In college the opposing D might have 2-3 guys as fast as him at most, in the NFL there will be 5 or 6 on majority of teams and he won't as much success running. Also, in the NFL the players are bigger and stronger so he will be more of an injury risk if he keeps taking so many shots. If you look at the teams he played, the 3-4 teams he did play that are good he didn't do much through the air, he did most of the damage on the ground with his legs while not turning the ball over. That doesn't really work in the NFL.

The only reason I got condescending with him was because I felt like he did when he said "Vince Young, and yeah he's a pretty good QB", and when he said I know zero of Newton when I have watched him 3-4 times atleast. I'm just not a fan because I don't like the spread QBs in college who run around a ton. The only one I really liked so far is Colt McCoy, and I actually kind of like Thomas for Oregon. I would much rather have a QB like Luck or Mallett who drops back and you can build a team around their arm, so they can get the ball to 3-4 of your playmakers. Much easier to focus your D on one guy such as Cam Newton than try to defend all of a teams options. Even Mike Vick had to become more of a pocket passer who could freakishly run before he really became successfull. I would even rather have a QB like Locker who has taken apart a D like USC even though he's had more bad games than Newton. I also like Stanzi a lot, because the team has won games on his arm.

Your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs both are very fair critiques of Cam Newton. I don't know enough about him to carry on with this discussion, my post was more in response to your argumentation method and lack of substance in backing up the claims you did.

If your critique had been based off of his skill, I would not have a had a big problem with it. My problem was that you called him "stupid" and a "fraud." That's moving beyond football critique into personal grudge level. It would be entirely different thing to say "I don't think he has the ability to read defenses at the next level which he'll have to do since he won't be able to take off and run if his first option isn't there in the NFL or else he'll get killed. I also have major concerns about his character given the NCAA investigation." I knew you were a better poster than that, which you proved in your response to me.

About your first paragraph, I don't know very much about it. I have a few questions out of curiosity. Were the two phone calls involving Cam or his Dad? And also were there more incidences of Cam being a thief other than the whole "bought a stolen laptop" thing?

Thanks.

Supposedly he stole another kid's test at Florida and put his name on it, and cheated on 2 other tests. Also, supposedly there was 1 phone call each from him and his dad asking about money, and supposedly his phone call took place afterwards where he told the person from Mississippi State that he "wish he could've kept his original commitment, but the money from Auburn was too much to turn down". Like I said, I usually give the person the benefit of the doubt and prefer to wait and see if the allegations will be proven true, but there's way too much stuff here for me to think that he didn't atleast do something or that there aren't some serious character concerns.
Cam starting.

  • Jcool
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,900
Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:
Cam starting.


Looking good as usual
He looks good today against Georgia. He's got an arm, that's for sure.

I really couldn't care less about his "character concerns."

Is he beating women? Drunk driving? Stabbing people at the Super Bowl? He may or may not have cheated on some tests--big f**king whoop. You know how insignificant his "education" is to his career? How many "student" athletes are hardly present for their "education"? And he may or may not have asked for money from schools interested in recruiting him---big f**king whoop. You know how many schools straight up give recruits free s**t, including money?

This whole thing is a joke. The kid is a football player. Is he a good football player? Yes. That's all i care about.
he does run a lot, but that touchdown pass was nice. I'd like to see him pass some more though
I dont see whats so special about him as a passer

I'm with Teeohh

I would love to see him pass more and I;d like to see him operate from under center more.

Watching the 4th quarter alone today, there were a lot of plays that wouldnt cut it in the nfl. All those fake handoffs and s**t
Originally posted by HessianDud:
He looks good today against Georgia. He's got an arm, that's for sure.

I really couldn't care less about his "character concerns."

Is he beating women? Drunk driving? Stabbing people at the Super Bowl? He may or may not have cheated on some tests--big f**king whoop. You know how insignificant his "education" is to his career? How many "student" athletes are hardly present for their "education"? And he may or may not have asked for money from schools interested in recruiting him---big f**king whoop. You know how many schools straight up give recruits free s**t, including money?

This whole thing is a joke. The kid is a football player. Is he a good football player? Yes. That's all i care about.

I agree completely and would at the moment be perfectly content drafting him in the first round. I think he can be another game-changing QB and the character concerns don't bother me. It seems that his father is more of the problem anyway.
[ Edited by NinerBuff on Nov 13, 2010 at 4:36 PM ]
Father admitted talking to someone

lol

way to keep pressure off dad
Originally posted by NinerBuff:

I agree completely and would at the moment be perfectly content drafting him in the first round. I think he can be another game-changing QB and the character concerns don't bother me. It seems that his father is more of the problem anyway.
you would be satisfied if the niners picked him in the first???
  • Jcool
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,900
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by NinerBuff:

I agree completely and would at the moment be perfectly content drafting him in the first round. I think he can be another game-changing QB and the character concerns don't bother me. It seems that his father is more of the problem anyway.
you would be satisfied if the niners picked him in the first???

I would be completely 100% satisfied but since he will most likely be the #1 overall pick i doubt we will have a chance at him.