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Locker v. Luck, The Great QB Debate

Locker v. Luck, The Great QB Debate

  • kush
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,648
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Kolohe:

While Washington has two mid round prospects on their O-line. Yah Stanford's O-line is sooo much better when Washington only gave up 3 more sacks. And Chris Polk is averaging 5.5 yards behind Washington's O-line, while Stefan Taylor is only averaging 4.9. Some of you make it sound as if Washington has a bad OL or something.

Lets also keep in mind that Stanford's defense is horrible and doesn't give that much help to Luck either.
perhaps washington gave up only 3 more sacks because locker knows how to avoid them??? and i dont care what the RBs run behind these o-lines because even the raiders' o-line can run support well but the pass protection is horrible...
washington got mid-round prospects in their o-line? walterfootball says no and cbs mention seniors only. could u give me your source plz.

Originally posted by SourdoughDan:

I "learned reading" years ago, thank you. I suggest you look at the numbers and realize what you're saying is asinine. Locker is digressing in his new offensive style. Which style do you suggest he WOULD work in? And Luck hardly struggled for a first year quarterback in a pro style offense, without a ton of help. The talent at Stanford is not amazing. Name a draftable player on their offense other than Luck.
i dont have to name any draftable player because especially at college it's a lot about the system...look at colt mccoy for an example.

Colt McCoy benefited from a gimmicky, spread-option offense. Andrew Luck is in a pro style WCO, often taking snaps under center (which he does very well). And plus, Colt McCoy had a GREAT D, Earl Thomas, Sergio Kindle, Lamar Houston and other younger prospects who WILL get drafted, not to mention Jordan Shipley (great slot receiver), Adam Ulatoski (who's not great ,but was draftable and better than the guys at Stanford) and plus underclassmen who have more talent than Stanford can dream of. I could be wrong but I can't see anyone else on Stanford who will be anything but a late round-udfa.

Colt McCoy benefitted greatly from his scheme and the talent around him. The talent around Andrew Luck benefits greatly from his skill as a QB. Big difference there buddy.
  • titan
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,504
Originally posted by fropwns:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
I'm pretty confident that Luck will declare, and he and Jake Locker form the top tier of the QB class. Mallett, Ponder, and Stanzi for the second tier but are late 1st Round - Early 2nd round talents. People may say that Mallett is in the first tier, but teams will be frightened by his lack of accuracy, character, lack of work ethic, and his "yo yo" eminem-on-stilts demeanor -- one website referred to him as a "retard with retard strength" (sorry if that offended anyone).

I think it comes down to who our coach is. If we have an offensive coach who is excellent with quarterbacks (e.g. Gruden, Brian Schottenheimer) we go with Locker. If we have a defensive-mided coach, we go with Luck.

That is because I feel that even though Luck is less experienced, he is more ready for a pro-style NFL offense and the NFL game. But if Locker gets decent coaching, he will be the next Steve Young.

Where's this lack of work ethic bulls**t about Mallet coming from? I have never heard that before. This isn't Matt Jones we are talking about here. Now, Mallet's consistency is a real problem. I think he has the talent, but he has to get his footwork down and make better decisions.

It's crazy what people come up with that's never even been reported! Mallet battles every week on the field, though he makes some over confident throws that get picked, it's not all his fault do to some are timing plays. What I like is how he is still improving and learning. What I like the best is how he can scramble and easily throw 60 yds. with ease.
What makes all you guys think Luck is even coming out? Because we will have the #1 pick? He's a Sophmore. And there is an NFL work stoppage coming. He doesn't have to come out you know just because some of you guys like him. He may well not come out even though the 49ers will have the #1 pick.

What are you going to do then?


  • kush
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,648
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
What makes all you guys think Luck is even coming out? Because we will have the #1 pick? He's a Sophmore. And there is an NFL work stoppage coming. He doesn't have to come out you know just because some of you guys like him. He may well not come out even though the 49ers will have the #1 pick.

What are you going to do then?



No one said they like him because he'll be coming out. I can't speak for everyone, but I know there's a strong chance he'll stay in school, that doesn't change my mind that he's far and away the best QB prospect in the draft.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 30,901
Originally posted by SourdoughDan:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
What makes all you guys think Luck is even coming out? Because we will have the #1 pick? He's a Sophmore. And there is an NFL work stoppage coming. He doesn't have to come out you know just because some of you guys like him. He may well not come out even though the 49ers will have the #1 pick.

What are you going to do then?



No one said they like him because he'll be coming out. I can't speak for everyone, but I know there's a strong chance he'll stay in school, that doesn't change my mind that he's far and away the best QB prospect in the draft.

And I'm with you, I believe there's a real strong chance he'll stay in school. Especially with the possible upcoming NFL lockout.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SourdoughDan:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
What makes all you guys think Luck is even coming out? Because we will have the #1 pick? He's a Sophmore. And there is an NFL work stoppage coming. He doesn't have to come out you know just because some of you guys like him. He may well not come out even though the 49ers will have the #1 pick.

What are you going to do then?



No one said they like him because he'll be coming out. I can't speak for everyone, but I know there's a strong chance he'll stay in school, that doesn't change my mind that he's far and away the best QB prospect in the draft.

And I'm with you, I believe there's a real strong chance he'll stay in school. Especially with the possible upcoming NFL lockout.

_______

If he stays in school, it'll be because he wants an education and nothing else.

Work stoppage or not, the next draft after 2011 will have a rookie pay scale. Nobody, especially potential #1 overall picks, will want anything to do with that.

This draft will be loaded with underclassmen coming out trying to beat the pay scale. Absolutely loaded.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 30,901
Originally posted by okdkid:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SourdoughDan:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
What makes all you guys think Luck is even coming out? Because we will have the #1 pick? He's a Sophmore. And there is an NFL work stoppage coming. He doesn't have to come out you know just because some of you guys like him. He may well not come out even though the 49ers will have the #1 pick.

What are you going to do then?



No one said they like him because he'll be coming out. I can't speak for everyone, but I know there's a strong chance he'll stay in school, that doesn't change my mind that he's far and away the best QB prospect in the draft.

And I'm with you, I believe there's a real strong chance he'll stay in school. Especially with the possible upcoming NFL lockout.

_______

If he stays in school, it'll be because he wants an education and nothing else.

Work stoppage or not, the next draft after 2011 will have a rookie pay scale. Nobody, especially potential #1 overall picks, will want anything to do with that.

This draft will be loaded with underclassmen coming out trying to beat the pay scale. Absolutely loaded.

I thought the rookie pay scale would start in 2011???

That's why I didn't bring it up.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by okdkid:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SourdoughDan:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
What makes all you guys think Luck is even coming out? Because we will have the #1 pick? He's a Sophmore. And there is an NFL work stoppage coming. He doesn't have to come out you know just because some of you guys like him. He may well not come out even though the 49ers will have the #1 pick.

What are you going to do then?



No one said they like him because he'll be coming out. I can't speak for everyone, but I know there's a strong chance he'll stay in school, that doesn't change my mind that he's far and away the best QB prospect in the draft.

And I'm with you, I believe there's a real strong chance he'll stay in school. Especially with the possible upcoming NFL lockout.

_______

If he stays in school, it'll be because he wants an education and nothing else.

Work stoppage or not, the next draft after 2011 will have a rookie pay scale. Nobody, especially potential #1 overall picks, will want anything to do with that.

This draft will be loaded with underclassmen coming out trying to beat the pay scale. Absolutely loaded.

I thought the rookie pay scale would start in 2011???

That's why I didn't bring it up.

pretty sure it wouldnt start until a new cba is agreed on. so if next season happens without a cba and no lock out then their wouldnt be a rookie cap yet. right?
I just want to know which one of these guys is more accurate? (Completion percentages must come with stats on length of throws, please!)

Running and in the pocket?

I've seen both play and I was, by far, more impressed with Luck. He just seemed to have a cool-presence about what was going on and what needed to be done. Obviously, I haven't watched enough of either, but if I had to choose, I'd want Luck.
just a second, how long has he been playing in a pro-style offense?

[ Edited by communist on Oct 13, 2010 at 12:52:06 ]
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
What makes all you guys think Luck is even coming out? Because we will have the #1 pick? He's a Sophmore. And there is an NFL work stoppage coming. He doesn't have to come out you know just because some of you guys like him. He may well not come out even though the 49ers will have the #1 pick.

What are you going to do then?



If his coach happens to leave for say...the NFL, he will leave as well. Just like Clausen did!!
Originally posted by SourdoughDan:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by SourdoughDan:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Kolohe:

Where did I say he didn't??? IMO, it just seems Locker relies more on his athleticism more than trying to sit there and read a defense or go through his reads. People can sit there all they want and tell me hes a good pocket passer, but I'm not the only one that sees when dropping back and his first or second read isn't there hes off and running.
if u see coming pressure right in the front of your face, u would start running, too.

lets see what luck did in his first year in the harbaugh-system which seems to be westcoast offense:
162 288 2575 56.3 8.94 63 13 4 6 143.47
not much better than luck so far...so i could say here that luck has also struggled at the beggining of his pro-style career in college.

But he has improved by miles already, and hes already surpassed his freshman numbers in less than half the games.
and locker will reach his numbers in a new offensive style...surrounded by nothing at all. stay tuned the next weeks.

YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2007 155 328 2062 47.3 6.29 98 14 15 17 105.01
2008 50 93 512 53.8 5.51 48 1 0 10 103.55
2009 230 395 2800 58.2 7.09 51 21 11 28 129.75
2010 93 168 1145 55.4 6.82 57 8 3 6 124.75

Dude you've got to be kidding me! You really are trying to say Luck struggled in his FIRST year of playing college football when his QB rating was 20 points better than Lockers is as a SENIOR. That's great that he'll reach his numbers in his second year in the system...if Luck reached those same "numbers" it'd be considered an extremely disappointing season.
i recommend you to learn reading...someone said locker struggles in the new offense and i answered that luck wasnt better in his first year at stanford. yeah, locker has more experience but it doenst guarantee u that your qb will work well with a new style after 5 games, especially if he hasnt any help at all.
i argue that locker will play better behind that o-line, even if the guys played solid yesterday, and with the talent on our offense. but i dont trust luck here yet.

I "learned reading" years ago, thank you. I suggest you look at the numbers and realize what you're saying is asinine. Locker is digressing in his new offensive style. Which style do you suggest he WOULD work in? And Luck hardly struggled for a first year quarterback in a pro style offense, without a ton of help. The talent at Stanford is not amazing. Name a draftable player on their offense other than Luck.

From what I remember this guy was decent

is this voting biased since Luck is from Stanford?
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
is this voting biased since Luck is from Stanford?

no, luck is better. Locker is a bit inconsistent.
  • kush
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,648
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by SourdoughDan:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by SourdoughDan:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Kolohe:

Where did I say he didn't??? IMO, it just seems Locker relies more on his athleticism more than trying to sit there and read a defense or go through his reads. People can sit there all they want and tell me hes a good pocket passer, but I'm not the only one that sees when dropping back and his first or second read isn't there hes off and running.
if u see coming pressure right in the front of your face, u would start running, too.

lets see what luck did in his first year in the harbaugh-system which seems to be westcoast offense:
162 288 2575 56.3 8.94 63 13 4 6 143.47
not much better than luck so far...so i could say here that luck has also struggled at the beggining of his pro-style career in college.

But he has improved by miles already, and hes already surpassed his freshman numbers in less than half the games.
and locker will reach his numbers in a new offensive style...surrounded by nothing at all. stay tuned the next weeks.

YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2007 155 328 2062 47.3 6.29 98 14 15 17 105.01
2008 50 93 512 53.8 5.51 48 1 0 10 103.55
2009 230 395 2800 58.2 7.09 51 21 11 28 129.75
2010 93 168 1145 55.4 6.82 57 8 3 6 124.75

Dude you've got to be kidding me! You really are trying to say Luck struggled in his FIRST year of playing college football when his QB rating was 20 points better than Lockers is as a SENIOR. That's great that he'll reach his numbers in his second year in the system...if Luck reached those same "numbers" it'd be considered an extremely disappointing season.
i recommend you to learn reading...someone said locker struggles in the new offense and i answered that luck wasnt better in his first year at stanford. yeah, locker has more experience but it doenst guarantee u that your qb will work well with a new style after 5 games, especially if he hasnt any help at all.
i argue that locker will play better behind that o-line, even if the guys played solid yesterday, and with the talent on our offense. but i dont trust luck here yet.

I "learned reading" years ago, thank you. I suggest you look at the numbers and realize what you're saying is asinine. Locker is digressing in his new offensive style. Which style do you suggest he WOULD work in? And Luck hardly struggled for a first year quarterback in a pro style offense, without a ton of help. The talent at Stanford is not amazing. Name a draftable player on their offense other than Luck.

From what I remember this guy was decent


Haha, you got me! Yes, having a horse like Gerhart certainly helped him transition into starting, but this year without him he's looking even better.
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