MadDog's Post-Combine Full NFL Draft March 7 Edition

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by jreff22:
As always MD great work

Now some questions for ya

Regarding the Spiller pick to Cle that you will get blasted with. You said, "I do not think they will be enamored with Bryant (Mangini is the same guy who labeled Crabtree as a "diva")" My counter to that statement is the new front office namely Tom Heckert Jr is the man in charge and his record on drafting WR's is pretty strong. I don't see Mangini making it more then another 2 years in Cle so Holmgren and Heckert will take who they want. I can see either Bryant or Spiller going to Cle, but I still have my money on Bryant.

Regarding the Haden pick.....take it back Seriously I don't want the kid here, something about him, not sure but I don't see him as a future stud.

John Jerry at 61 while Jon Asamoah is at 72?

Linval Joseph at 97...I thought he would be more of a 4th-5th round guy. I know he was a rotational player and his conditioning has raised a few questions...I was hoping he would be a later round steal for us.

Jonathan Dwyer at 99 damn what did he do to you?

Regarding the 2nd round and who could be available and who I like:
51 Brandon Spikes
52 Nate Allen South Florida S
56 Chris Cook Virginia CB/FS
61 John Jerry Mississippi G/OT
Is there anybody else who you see as a potential target that I'm missing?

Call me skeptical on OSU wide receivers, but they have not been on a good run the past five years. I just think Bryant will have to put on a terrific show to break that top 10 after the problems he faced in 2009, and I think he'll fall a bit short. Who knows? Maybe he'll light it up. We'll soon see.

As for Haden, I thought I saw some cracks in the national championship game. Tends to gamble a bit too much for me, and was able to recover well on two plays in the game where he was beat. That is not always the case in the NFL. Game is just too fast.

Still, the kid has great feet, terrific fluidity on the field, and just needs to be coached up on how to run the 40. I bet he comes back with a forty in the 4.45 range at the campus workout, and regains some momentum.

The difference I see between Jerry and Asamoah is Jerry's ability to kick out to RT in the NFL. Some teams might put him there right away. Asamoah is going to go in that 60-75 range, and with the depth of this draft, I simply think he slides to the early third. Could be wrong. Shoulder is something that may hold teams back.

I think I am a bit conservation on Joseph. One analysts said he'd be a top 75 pick. To me, that is too high. But, with the NFL now having 14 teams running the 3-4, the demand for solid NT's is high.

Dwyer had some question marks entering the draft. And, his combine was met with mixed reviews. In the end, I think his drop really is more of a numbers game. The RB's really stood out at the combine. I think scouts will look at similar-sized backs: Hardesty, Gerhart, Tate, as being more athletic, explosive players. They all ran faster, jumped much higher and longer. Now, I could certainly be wrong. Last year, Pitt's McCoy had a bad, bad workout, but still went in the 2rd round, and looked great on the field. I just think the other guys have pushed him down the board.

Special teams play will be big for the Niners in their second or third rounder. I really like Owusu-Ansah as a third rounder, but think he'll be gone by number 79. He is a PR/KR/and big corner the Niners like. Fast and strong.

Not a fan of Spikes at all. See him as stiff and not good value at 49.

Cheers.

Agree with most of your asessments, but what national championship game did you see Haden in? I though Texas played Alabama?

Originally posted by nvninerfan1:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by jreff22:
As always MD great work

Now some questions for ya

Regarding the Spiller pick to Cle that you will get blasted with. You said, "I do not think they will be enamored with Bryant (Mangini is the same guy who labeled Crabtree as a "diva")" My counter to that statement is the new front office namely Tom Heckert Jr is the man in charge and his record on drafting WR's is pretty strong. I don't see Mangini making it more then another 2 years in Cle so Holmgren and Heckert will take who they want. I can see either Bryant or Spiller going to Cle, but I still have my money on Bryant.

Regarding the Haden pick.....take it back Seriously I don't want the kid here, something about him, not sure but I don't see him as a future stud.

John Jerry at 61 while Jon Asamoah is at 72?

Linval Joseph at 97...I thought he would be more of a 4th-5th round guy. I know he was a rotational player and his conditioning has raised a few questions...I was hoping he would be a later round steal for us.

Jonathan Dwyer at 99 damn what did he do to you?

Regarding the 2nd round and who could be available and who I like:
51 Brandon Spikes
52 Nate Allen South Florida S
56 Chris Cook Virginia CB/FS
61 John Jerry Mississippi G/OT
Is there anybody else who you see as a potential target that I'm missing?

Call me skeptical on OSU wide receivers, but they have not been on a good run the past five years. I just think Bryant will have to put on a terrific show to break that top 10 after the problems he faced in 2009, and I think he'll fall a bit short. Who knows? Maybe he'll light it up. We'll soon see.

As for Haden, I thought I saw some cracks in the national championship game. Tends to gamble a bit too much for me, and was able to recover well on two plays in the game where he was beat. That is not always the case in the NFL. Game is just too fast.

Still, the kid has great feet, terrific fluidity on the field, and just needs to be coached up on how to run the 40. I bet he comes back with a forty in the 4.45 range at the campus workout, and regains some momentum.

The difference I see between Jerry and Asamoah is Jerry's ability to kick out to RT in the NFL. Some teams might put him there right away. Asamoah is going to go in that 60-75 range, and with the depth of this draft, I simply think he slides to the early third. Could be wrong. Shoulder is something that may hold teams back.

I think I am a bit conservation on Joseph. One analysts said he'd be a top 75 pick. To me, that is too high. But, with the NFL now having 14 teams running the 3-4, the demand for solid NT's is high.

Dwyer had some question marks entering the draft. And, his combine was met with mixed reviews. In the end, I think his drop really is more of a numbers game. The RB's really stood out at the combine. I think scouts will look at similar-sized backs: Hardesty, Gerhart, Tate, as being more athletic, explosive players. They all ran faster, jumped much higher and longer. Now, I could certainly be wrong. Last year, Pitt's McCoy had a bad, bad workout, but still went in the 2rd round, and looked great on the field. I just think the other guys have pushed him down the board.

Special teams play will be big for the Niners in their second or third rounder. I really like Owusu-Ansah as a third rounder, but think he'll be gone by number 79. He is a PR/KR/and big corner the Niners like. Fast and strong.

Not a fan of Spikes at all. See him as stiff and not good value at 49.

Cheers.

Agree with most of your asessments, but what national championship game did you see Haden in? I though Texas played Alabama?

I obviously didn't mean National Championship game (even though I typed it), since we would be crowning Florida the champs again, and I would be bitter.

Mea Culpa on this one. Good catch.

NO JOE HADEN!! Come on this guy is sub par. I can't believe the hype this cat is getting

Originally posted by wailers15:
NO JOE HADEN!! Come on this guy is sub par. I can't believe the hype this cat is getting

He was the best corner in college football this year. Now, that doesn't mean he'll be the best pro, but the kid has a ton of talent.

He will rectify this bad forty time at his campus workout, and most of the damage will be long gone in the minds of most fans and analysts.

Once again, this is not a wish list for me, but how I see the draft shaking out at this point.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by RogerCraig:
Please ignore my ignorance - Is this list a rating of players' general value or is it a list based on your expectations relative to draft positions and team needs?

Spiller at seven is based on your expectation that the Browns will take him because of needs at that slot?

Thank you

This is NOT a value board, or I'd have Mays at about 90. This is where I perceive the players to fall in the draft. Not necessarily at the exact sport listed, but in that ballpark.

As for Spiller, it will be a needs-based pick. The guys they are looking at (the two QB's, Berry) are not going to be on the board.

Thank you.

What is your take on Sean Weatherspoon. I have heard alot of negative reports on him because he is loud and overconfident. I personally don´t see it as a problem that he talks alot, do you? He has great instincts and reads the game well.

Am I missing something or is Walter Thurmond III not on your list? If it's an oversight, where does he sit on your list?

Originally posted by Icelandic49er:
What is your take on Sean Weatherspoon. I have heard alot of negative reports on him because he is loud and overconfident. I personally don´t see it as a problem that he talks alot, do you? He has great instincts and reads the game well.

I laughed when I heard the "negative" report on Weatherspoon last week. Someone may a very poor attempt to cause his stock to fall. It is simply one of the games that scouts, coaches, GM's make in leaking false information to deflate or inflate a players' stock.

Weatherspoon is an extremely likeable and teachable player, and his arrow is pointing way up after the Senior Bowl, combine and campus workout.

He may end up going as high as the Titans at 16.

My personal review is that he was stunning at the end of the 2008 season, gained some bad weight that slowed him down in the 2009 year, and regained his old form this offseason. I think that he is best suited as a 4-3 Sam backer.

Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Am I missing something or is Walter Thurmond III not on your list? If it's an oversight, where does he sit on your list?

No, it's not an oversight. The latest report is that he will not be able to work out until April, and the knee might not even be sound at that point. Coming back from an ACL is a huge deal, and I tend to downgrade players farther than most in my projection(see note on Sean Lee).

He's on hold for right now until more word comes out.

Cheers.

Looks very good, MD. I disagree with the top 5, but after that no real issues aside from a minor slew of picks between the 90-120 range. Specifically Dwyer and Gilyard -- I do not see their timings causing such a fall for them at all and expect both to go by the 3rd.

One thing I'm relieved about is the hype on Ducasse dying down. I predicted that by combine time he'd slide back down into that 2nd-3rd round range. He's not a first round player.

But again, *thumbs up* to you, my friend.

Best and most logical mock I've see so far. If anything, I think you could switch Bruce Campbell with Taylor Mays at the 8th spot.

With Mike Sing seeing Marty Gilyard in person at his pro day i would like to ask your opinion of him?????? I really like what i saw from Gilyard in the games i saw during the season but i have a gut feeling that he isn´t gonna be a very good player in the NFL. I hope we don´t draft him, i don´t know how is pro day was but to me i have not been impressed with him this off season. I was actually very surprised that Mike was there to see him in person cos alot of school had their pro day today

Originally posted by Icelandic49er:
With Mike Sing seeing Marty Gilyard in person at his pro day i would like to ask your opinion of him?????? I really like what i saw from Gilyard in the games i saw during the season but i have a gut feeling that he isn´t gonna be a very good player in the NFL. I hope we don´t draft him, i don´t know how is pro day was but to me i have not been impressed with him this off season. I was actually very surprised that Mike was there to see him in person cos alot of school had their pro day today

I think if people are expecting him to be the next Chad Johnson or something, those expectations are a little off the wall. For a player likely to be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd, you're going to get a great slot receiver who is an extremely dangerous returner.

Gilyard clocked at 4.47 for the Pro-Day after weighing in at 5'11 7/12" and 187 pounds at the combine. I still feel confident that Gilyard should be a top 75 pick.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by Icelandic49er:
With Mike Sing seeing Marty Gilyard in person at his pro day i would like to ask your opinion of him?????? I really like what i saw from Gilyard in the games i saw during the season but i have a gut feeling that he isn´t gonna be a very good player in the NFL. I hope we don´t draft him, i don´t know how is pro day was but to me i have not been impressed with him this off season. I was actually very surprised that Mike was there to see him in person cos alot of school had their pro day today

I think if people are expecting him to be the next Chad Johnson or something, those expectations are a little off the wall. For a player likely to be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd, you're going to get a great slot receiver who is an extremely dangerous returner.

Gilyard clocked at 4.47 for the Pro-Day after weighing in at 5'11 7/12" and 187 pounds at the combine. I still feel confident that Gilyard should be a top 75 pick.

Really? im glad that you have confidence in him, but i think he is sliding down, rather than up. I would not draft him until the 4th round at this time at least.

Originally posted by Icelandic49er:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by Icelandic49er:
With Mike Sing seeing Marty Gilyard in person at his pro day i would like to ask your opinion of him?????? I really like what i saw from Gilyard in the games i saw during the season but i have a gut feeling that he isn´t gonna be a very good player in the NFL. I hope we don´t draft him, i don´t know how is pro day was but to me i have not been impressed with him this off season. I was actually very surprised that Mike was there to see him in person cos alot of school had their pro day today

I think if people are expecting him to be the next Chad Johnson or something, those expectations are a little off the wall. For a player likely to be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd, you're going to get a great slot receiver who is an extremely dangerous returner.

Gilyard clocked at 4.47 for the Pro-Day after weighing in at 5'11 7/12" and 187 pounds at the combine. I still feel confident that Gilyard should be a top 75 pick.

Really? im glad that you have confidence in him, but i think he is sliding down, rather than up. I would not draft him until the 4th round at this time at least.

The 4th is extremely unrealistic at this point. His character, talent, athleticism, and freakish production both in the receiving and the KR-PR game would never have him last that long. We are in a league that demands play-making talent and Gilyard possesses that.

The guy has all the tools, plus the will and the drive to be more than just a slot receiver in the NFL. When you add all the other things on top of the fact that over the past two seasons, he produced 168 catches for 2467 yards with 22 TDs, along with 2275 kick return yards and five return TDs, it's easy to see why such a player is pretty much a lock to go in the first three rounds.

Even a guy like Mario Manningham who didn't have KR/PR ability like Gilyard, and had serious attitude/character concerns still went in the third.