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The Way Overrated OT Class

I am going to come to Ninerjohn's defense.

Many of us savage a player because he underperforms or plays without proper execution. Yet, it seems hypocritical to condemn him while we underperform ourselves, whether it is mispelling or sloppy punctuation.

Whatever we expect of others, we should expect of ourselves. We want our team to be Super Bowl caliber. As fans, we should hold ourselves to high standards as well.

We have a few on this board who are willing to be the Solari and Brown of punctuation and spelling, and we will all be better for it.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by 49er4life:
Originally posted by E-49er:
Originally posted by 49er4life:
In the last several years OT's have become the hottest trend to take in the top 20. OT's tend to be a safer pick than skill positions, because in many cases if they do not pan out as OT's they can be converted to guards.

This being said, while part of me would love to see Spiller in a 49ers uniform ( or Haden but he wont be there) the best thing for this team would be to take our top rated OT at 13 and then Iupati at 17.

It all starts in the trenches, and this would be a draft that we would look back on in 3 years as the draft that changed our teams future...

I'm not an advocate of taking two OT's in the first. This draft is pretty deep and if we can get Spiller at #13 nd an OT at #16 I would be overjoyed. We can always pickup a guard in the second or 3rd round. Who knows maybe Rachal can fix his problems in the offseason or we pickup a guard in free agency.

We also still need a safety so we can finally get rid of Roman and if the #13 pick is not spiller a KR/PR later in the draft.

I agree that it all starts in the trenches but I think we need to use both free agency and the draft to get the OL that we need.

I am not an advocate of taking two OT's either... I am an advocate of taking our top rated OT and Iupati who is a guard.

If we take Spiller I will not be disappointed at all, but we will still have problems with our O-line which will continue to be our downfall.

exactly all dominant teams have an elite o line that gives the QB more than 3 sec not all elite teams have a homerun threat

Not even close to being true. Dominant TOP teams maybe, but you're kidding yourself if you think Pitt, Ind, and NE have dominant o lines.

[ Edited by tjd808185 on Feb 20, 2010 at 22:47:16 ]
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Originally posted by excelsior:
I am going to come to Ninerjohn's defense.

Many of us savage a player because he underperforms or plays without proper execution. Yet, it seems hypocritical to condemn him while we underperform ourselves, whether it is mispelling or sloppy punctuation.

Whatever we expect of others, we should expect of ourselves. We want our team to be Super Bowl caliber. As fans, we should hold ourselves to high standards as well.

We have a few on this board who are willing to be the Solari and Brown of punctuation and spelling, and we will all be better for it.

To add to this: Part of being involved with a discussion is being able to communicate clearly. Communicating clearly involves proper spelling and grammar. I don't think any of us are expecting 100% perfection here but these aren't the AOL boards.
even if these RT's aren't 1st round quality which 1 or 2 are, they would still be SOLID or an UPGRADE over what we have and would IMPROVE our team. We will make the playoffs this year most likely and we don't need a revolving door at the RT position like it has been for the last 6 years. This alone would improve our offense dramatically and if it's a reach at RT so be it but since the goal is to IMPROVE our team now and the goal is not to not draft or reach for an overrated RT.....this is why we will draft an OT
Not sure I agree with you...by most experts' analysis there are at least 5 top-tier OT's this draft. Some opinions vary, but by and large that seems to be the consensus. One guy not necessarily mentioned in that group is USC's Charles Brown. One major thing I like about him as a Niner is he's excellent at zone blocking, which Coach Solari will implement this off-season. Singletary will get his OT this draft...because he desperately needs a good RT and a better LG...he'll get both.
Almost anyone would be an upgrade for us at RT
Heard that...I didn't know that Charles Brown was so adept at zone blocking...but he's making more sense to be the pick if one of the other top five isn't available. Coach Solari generally prefers OL who're lighter on their feet, can zone block, lead screens and sweeps, etc. Brown might fulfill those rqmts better than some of the rest.
Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Heard that...I didn't know that Charles Brown was so adept at zone blocking...but he's making more sense to be the pick if one of the other top five isn't available. Coach Solari generally prefers OL who're lighter on their feet, can zone block, lead screens and sweeps, etc. Brown might fulfill those rqmts better than some of the rest.

Would we need to trade down from 16/17? That seems a little high and he probably won't be there at 49.
Glad to see the Zone is as juvenile as ever.

Accusations with no facts. I am accused of wanting a blob that only plays 50% of the snap-but no mention that I would take him in the freaking second or third round. he needs to lose weight, but if he does he will be the next premier NG in the league.

And, now I only watch senior tape...too bad the Zone is full of noobies....Rule #1 of the draft, you only look at the most recent year's tape...duh...and I am being criticized for actually watching game film...wtf.

Does someone want to start bringing some facts into play or am I surrounded my mongrels?
Originally posted by stever:
Originally posted by mayo63:
Originally posted by stever:
Originally posted by GoldenGateFan:
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Originally posted by noobie:
You call ALL the OT overrated yet you want a 370 pound tub of lard that's only going to play 50% of the snaps. A guy that doesn't get sacks, pressures, or even tackles in the 2nd?

Oh......SNAP! Slapped in the face by a noob.

You said exactley what i was thinking! First of all, i do believe that some of the OTs are overated, however Okung and Williams (watch game tape from last year, DOMINANT on the right side) are both extremly legit. As well, even if people are rushing to pick OTs and reaching, that doesn't mean we should just not pick an OT. I mean if the top 5 OTs are gone by our pick (doubt) we can always pick ducasse in round 2 and ciron black or jason fox in round 3/4.

My first choice would still be Williams at 13 and ducasse in round 2, and devote the other picks to DBs (donnovan Warren at 17, Reshad Jones in round 3) and then back to OT with Fox in round 4!

Sorry, but Williams at #13 looks a little bit high, Warren at #17 is a reach, Ducasse is really raw and needs some time to develop and nobody of those guys helps our return game.

Both Williams and Bulaga should make it to 16/17. It's best to take BPA at 13 then get our choice of Trent or Bryan at 16/17.

Exactly what i would like the niners to da

Nice points GoldenGateFan, this is how I would like to see the draft roll out as well. I have a feeling it will be best defensive player and then a right tackle.

So many good defensive players at the top of the board, someone good is going to be sitting there at 13.
Originally posted by bigwads:
Glad to see the Zone is as juvenile as ever.

Accusations with no facts. I am accused of wanting a blob that only plays 50% of the snap-but no mention that I would take him in the freaking second or third round. he needs to lose weight, but if he does he will be the next premier NG in the league.

And, now I only watch senior tape...too bad the Zone is full of noobies....Rule #1 of the draft, you only look at the most recent year's tape...duh...and I am being criticized for actually watching game film...wtf.

Does someone want to start bringing some facts into play or am I surrounded my mongrels?

When did you make up that rule? Professional scouts, who actually do this for a living (e.g, Mike Mayock) have stated that for some players you go back to the previous years tape, especially when the player was moved from the position they excelled at, as was the case with Trent Williams.

Again, I ask, are you actually watching "game tape," of every single OT in the draft, or are you just youtubing people? If you are watching game tape, then where are you getting it from? Are you a scout for a team?

Further, you said that Staley was a better OT coming into the draft than any of the OT's this year except for Okung. Why do you say that? Did he have better footwork? Size? Technique? Speed? You said to bring facts, but you just make blanket statements. Give us the details since you are the expert.

[ Edited by RedWaltz24 on Feb 21, 2010 at 08:49:35 ]
Originally posted by GoldenGateFan:
Originally posted by stever:
Originally posted by GoldenGateFan:
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Originally posted by noobie:
You call ALL the OT overrated yet you want a 370 pound tub of lard that's only going to play 50% of the snaps. A guy that doesn't get sacks, pressures, or even tackles in the 2nd?

Oh......SNAP! Slapped in the face by a noob.

You said exactley what i was thinking! First of all, i do believe that some of the OTs are overated, however Okung and Williams (watch game tape from last year, DOMINANT on the right side) are both extremly legit. As well, even if people are rushing to pick OTs and reaching, that doesn't mean we should just not pick an OT. I mean if the top 5 OTs are gone by our pick (doubt) we can always pick ducasse in round 2 and ciron black or jason fox in round 3/4.

My first choice would still be Williams at 13 and ducasse in round 2, and devote the other picks to DBs (donnovan Warren at 17, Reshad Jones in round 3) and then back to OT with Fox in round 4!

Sorry, but Williams at #13 looks a little bit high, Warren at #17 is a reach, Ducasse is really raw and needs some time to develop and nobody of those guys helps our return game.

Did you watch Williams on the Right Side??? Dominant!! This year he moved to left and proved that it is not like someone can just switch sides and keep up the same production. Although he is a reach (agreed) we NEED to solidify our O-line as well as improve our pass defense. Crabs and morgan will only get better, and with an improved O-line, Alex will have more time and improve even more. It will also help our already good run game.

On the other end, we had one of the best rush defenses, yet one of the worst pass defeses. As the league as a whole moves towards a more pass oriented game (just look at the SB), we need to improve our DBs as we have glaring holes at SS with lewis's concussions.

We can always find some one to impove our retunr game in later rounds such as LeRoy Vann, who has returned 11 punts/kicks for touchdowns!

I also like Brandon Graham to improve our mediocre pass rush.

Did you seriously just say that ...3rd in the league in sacks dumbass.
Originally posted by bigwads:
Glad to see the Zone is as juvenile as ever.

Accusations with no facts. I am accused of wanting a blob that only plays 50% of the snap-but no mention that I would take him in the freaking second or third round. he needs to lose weight, but if he does he will be the next premier NG in the league.

And, now I only watch senior tape...too bad the Zone is full of noobies....Rule #1 of the draft, you only look at the most recent year's tape...duh...and I am being criticized for actually watching game film...wtf.

Does someone want to start bringing some facts into play or am I surrounded my mongrels?

You'd have a stronger case if you actually stated how you wanted to fix the Right Tackle position.
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Glad to see the Zone is as juvenile as ever.

Accusations with no facts. I am accused of wanting a blob that only plays 50% of the snap-but no mention that I would take him in the freaking second or third round. he needs to lose weight, but if he does he will be the next premier NG in the league.

And, now I only watch senior tape...too bad the Zone is full of noobies....Rule #1 of the draft, you only look at the most recent year's tape...duh...and I am being criticized for actually watching game film...wtf.

Does someone want to start bringing some facts into play or am I surrounded my mongrels?

When did you make up that rule? Professional scouts, who actually do this for a living (e.g, Mike Mayock) have stated that for some players you go back to the previous years tape, especially when the player was moved from the position they excelled at, as was the case with Trent Williams.

Again, I ask, are you actually watching "game tape," of every single OT in the draft, or are you just youtubing people? If you are watching game tape, then where are you getting it from? Are you a scout for a team?

Further, you said that Staley was a better OT coming into the draft than any of the OT's this year except for Okung. Why do you say that? Did he have better footwork? Size? Technique? Speed? You said to bring facts, but you just make blanket statements. Give us the details since you are the expert.

I've never heard that rule once, and I've been watching drafts for a long long time. Why would you watch him as a LT when you can watch him as a RT, the position you're going to draft him for?
Originally posted by pwilly52:
Originally posted by GoldenGateFan:
Originally posted by stever:
Originally posted by GoldenGateFan:
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Originally posted by noobie:
You call ALL the OT overrated yet you want a 370 pound tub of lard that's only going to play 50% of the snaps. A guy that doesn't get sacks, pressures, or even tackles in the 2nd?

Oh......SNAP! Slapped in the face by a noob.

You said exactley what i was thinking! First of all, i do believe that some of the OTs are overated, however Okung and Williams (watch game tape from last year, DOMINANT on the right side) are both extremly legit. As well, even if people are rushing to pick OTs and reaching, that doesn't mean we should just not pick an OT. I mean if the top 5 OTs are gone by our pick (doubt) we can always pick ducasse in round 2 and ciron black or jason fox in round 3/4.

My first choice would still be Williams at 13 and ducasse in round 2, and devote the other picks to DBs (donnovan Warren at 17, Reshad Jones in round 3) and then back to OT with Fox in round 4!

Sorry, but Williams at #13 looks a little bit high, Warren at #17 is a reach, Ducasse is really raw and needs some time to develop and nobody of those guys helps our return game.

Did you watch Williams on the Right Side??? Dominant!! This year he moved to left and proved that it is not like someone can just switch sides and keep up the same production. Although he is a reach (agreed) we NEED to solidify our O-line as well as improve our pass defense. Crabs and morgan will only get better, and with an improved O-line, Alex will have more time and improve even more. It will also help our already good run game.

On the other end, we had one of the best rush defenses, yet one of the worst pass defeses. As the league as a whole moves towards a more pass oriented game (just look at the SB), we need to improve our DBs as we have glaring holes at SS with lewis's concussions.

We can always find some one to impove our retunr game in later rounds such as LeRoy Vann, who has returned 11 punts/kicks for touchdowns!

I also like Brandon Graham to improve our mediocre pass rush.

Did you seriously just say that ...3rd in the league in sacks dumbass.

Yes, but there is nicer ways of saying it