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Final Bowl Week Prospect Watch: (1/4 - 1/7)

Originally posted by TX9R:
So Thomas' size scares people off, but Arenas is no problem. He looked even smaller? How's he gonna cover most NFL WRs, he's maybe 5'7. Do you take a guy in the 2nd strictly as a returner?

I wouldn't draft Arenas with the intention of starting him at CB...maybe a dime back. But his value would be in the return game.....personally I have other people in mind to fit that role.
  • tmg808
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DT Cody was unmovable, he consistently stacked up the line.
Arenas is small and is an Alan Rossum type.
Shipley looked good but Alabama secondary isn't the strength of their defense.
McClain showed great play recognition and is a run stopping LB if i ever saw one.
Thomas was an all American for his pass coverage so this wasn't a game to shine.
Kendall Showed athleticism but was pushed around by the Alabama TEs on the run.
Marcell Dareus looked like he will be a top 10 pick next year, he was a beast all night.
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by TX9R:
So Thomas' size scares people off, but Arenas is no problem. He looked even smaller? How's he gonna cover most NFL WRs, he's maybe 5'7. Do you take a guy in the 2nd strictly as a returner?

I wouldn't draft Arenas with the intention of starting him at CB...maybe a dime back. But his value would be in the return game.....personally I have other people in mind to fit that role.

And how everyone forgets how Arenas was burned by Shipley for a TD, twice I think.

But some make it like being 5'10" as a Safety won't work in the NFL when some of the best are that height. But whatever that's their opinion, I'll stick with my guns that I'd still hope we get Thomas in the 1st, shoot if we got him in the 2nd it would be a steal.
Originally posted by confusedrhino:
Originally posted by darkknight49:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by Negrodamus:
Originally posted by MaliCali:
Jordan Shipley = Baby Welker

Anyone think he'll be available in the third or fourth? I'd take him or McCluster in an instant. Both WRs that can return pretty damn well.

i love how every white WR around 6' is considered a "welker-type"

They aren't even close to the same kind of player either, Welker is more of a feisty squirrel of a man, while Shipley is longer and lankier and taller.

I don't know if I agree. Shipley is barely 3in taller than Welker and weighs maybe 10lbs more max. They are both deceptively fast, shifty, posession receivers with above-average hands who happen to be white
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by TX9R:
So Thomas' size scares people off, but Arenas is no problem. He looked even smaller? How's he gonna cover most NFL WRs, he's maybe 5'7. Do you take a guy in the 2nd strictly as a returner?

I wouldn't draft Arenas with the intention of starting him at CB...maybe a dime back. But his value would be in the return game.....personally I have other people in mind to fit that role.

And how everyone forgets how Arenas was burned by Shipley for a TD, twice I think.

But some make it like being 5'10" as a Safety won't work in the NFL when some of the best are that height. But whatever that's their opinion, I'll stick with my guns that I'd still hope we get Thomas in the 1st, shoot if we got him in the 2nd it would be a steal.

The only FS I want in the first is Berry...after that I can wait till the 2nd or 3rd. I prefer CB's to be in the 6'0 190lb range or a lil bigger. As for a FS and SS anything under 5'10 is really pushing it.
  • TX9R
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Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by TX9R:
So Thomas' size scares people off, but Arenas is no problem. He looked even smaller? How's he gonna cover most NFL WRs, he's maybe 5'7. Do you take a guy in the 2nd strictly as a returner?

I wouldn't draft Arenas with the intention of starting him at CB...maybe a dime back. But his value would be in the return game.....personally I have other people in mind to fit that role.

And how everyone forgets how Arenas was burned by Shipley for a TD, twice I think.

But some make it like being 5'10" as a Safety won't work in the NFL when some of the best are that height. But whatever that's their opinion, I'll stick with my guns that I'd still hope we get Thomas in the 1st, shoot if we got him in the 2nd it would be a steal.

Also, he may be a liability against the run, but a: that's not really a FS job, B: how many NFL teams are really built like Alabama in that they run run run, 3, maybe 4? It's a passing league and Thomas is excellent against the pass. Mad dog is wrong on this one.
Originally posted by TX9R:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by TX9R:
So Thomas' size scares people off, but Arenas is no problem. He looked even smaller? How's he gonna cover most NFL WRs, he's maybe 5'7. Do you take a guy in the 2nd strictly as a returner?

I wouldn't draft Arenas with the intention of starting him at CB...maybe a dime back. But his value would be in the return game.....personally I have other people in mind to fit that role.

And how everyone forgets how Arenas was burned by Shipley for a TD, twice I think.

But some make it like being 5'10" as a Safety won't work in the NFL when some of the best are that height. But whatever that's their opinion, I'll stick with my guns that I'd still hope we get Thomas in the 1st, shoot if we got him in the 2nd it would be a steal.

Also, he may be a liability against the run, but a: that's not really a FS job, B: how many NFL teams are really built like Alabama in that they run run run, 3, maybe 4? It's a passing league and Thomas is excellent against the pass. Mad dog is wrong on this one.

Considering the amount of tackles Goldson put up it is important and will be his job.
Originally posted by darkknight49:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by Negrodamus:
Originally posted by MaliCali:
Jordan Shipley = Baby Welker

Anyone think he'll be available in the third or fourth? I'd take him or McCluster in an instant. Both WRs that can return pretty damn well.

i love how every white WR around 6' is considered a "welker-type"

  • TX9R
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Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by TX9R:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by TX9R:
So Thomas' size scares people off, but Arenas is no problem. He looked even smaller? How's he gonna cover most NFL WRs, he's maybe 5'7. Do you take a guy in the 2nd strictly as a returner?

I wouldn't draft Arenas with the intention of starting him at CB...maybe a dime back. But his value would be in the return game.....personally I have other people in mind to fit that role.

And how everyone forgets how Arenas was burned by Shipley for a TD, twice I think.

But some make it like being 5'10" as a Safety won't work in the NFL when some of the best are that height. But whatever that's their opinion, I'll stick with my guns that I'd still hope we get Thomas in the 1st, shoot if we got him in the 2nd it would be a steal.

Also, he may be a liability against the run, but a: that's not really a FS job, B: how many NFL teams are really built like Alabama in that they run run run, 3, maybe 4? It's a passing league and Thomas is excellent against the pass. Mad dog is wrong on this one.

Considering the amount of tackles Goldson put up it is important and will be his job.

How many of those tackles were on passing plays though? The SS plays close to the line to perform this job, a FS is supposed to roam the secondary as the last line of defense, mainly vs the pass. If you're counting on your FS to make that many plays against the run, you have bigger problems.
Originally posted by TX9R:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by TX9R:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by TX9R:
So Thomas' size scares people off, but Arenas is no problem. He looked even smaller? How's he gonna cover most NFL WRs, he's maybe 5'7. Do you take a guy in the 2nd strictly as a returner?

I wouldn't draft Arenas with the intention of starting him at CB...maybe a dime back. But his value would be in the return game.....personally I have other people in mind to fit that role.

And how everyone forgets how Arenas was burned by Shipley for a TD, twice I think.

But some make it like being 5'10" as a Safety won't work in the NFL when some of the best are that height. But whatever that's their opinion, I'll stick with my guns that I'd still hope we get Thomas in the 1st, shoot if we got him in the 2nd it would be a steal.

Also, he may be a liability against the run, but a: that's not really a FS job, B: how many NFL teams are really built like Alabama in that they run run run, 3, maybe 4? It's a passing league and Thomas is excellent against the pass. Mad dog is wrong on this one.

Considering the amount of tackles Goldson put up it is important and will be his job.

How many of those tackles were on passing plays though? The SS plays close to the line to perform this job, a FS is supposed to roam the secondary as the last line of defense, mainly vs the pass. If you're counting on your FS to make that many plays against the run, you have bigger problems.

I know the duties and responsibilities but having a FS who really struggles against the run will be a liability. Goldson's ability to play the run as been a major asset this year. Having a SS and FS who are almost interchangeable lets you get very creative with the D.
Originally posted by rtj03:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Now that the BCS game is about over, who are the players that improved their status and why, and who are those who dropped in their status and why? Also who would be players that we would look at?

Gainers:
DT Lamarr Houston - continued to play hard and was the one guy to consistently get pressure. Beat Mike Johnson badly several times early on.
WR Shipley - Even without their QB, has played extremely well. Two TDs.
CB Arenas - Sure he got beat once on the double-move, but never judge someone on one play. He had one bad play, the entire rest of the game he had/has been very good out there.
ILB McClain - solid all game long. A mistake being offsides, but that's about the only negative you can take from McClain tonight.

Losers:
S Earl Thomas - not physical enough, didn't make a peep in the game.
DT Terrance Cody - simply a situational player, falls deeper into the 2nd round.
SS Woodall - Blown coverages. Woodall may have to move to OLB in the Pro's.

Static (non-moving):
OLB Sergio Kindle - Did some good things, but not enough to really make any significant movement.
OG Mike Johnson - Got beat some early on, but bounce back with some outstanding blocks to even things out.

"OLB Sergio Kindle - Did some good things, but not enough to really make any significant movement."

Kindle had a good night and I bet his stock is up after this game.

Kindle looks like a possible “Manny Lawson 2.0.” I have said all season that I think he is overrated as a 3-4 OLB. He is a great athlete, and has ideal measurable, although he doesn’t look like he is 255lb. When I watch him rush the passer he seems to use only his speed and quickness, never any pass rush moves. He is a good enough athlete to be successful in the NFL, but I’m not wild about drafting Kindle to help with our pass rush.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by TX9R:
So Thomas' size scares people off, but Arenas is no problem. He looked even smaller? How's he gonna cover most NFL WRs, he's maybe 5'7. Do you take a guy in the 2nd strictly as a returner?

I wouldn't draft Arenas with the intention of starting him at CB...maybe a dime back. But his value would be in the return game.....personally I have other people in mind to fit that role.

And how everyone forgets how Arenas was burned by Shipley for a TD, twice I think.

But some make it like being 5'10" as a Safety won't work in the NFL when some of the best are that height. But whatever that's their opinion, I'll stick with my guns that I'd still hope we get Thomas in the 1st, shoot if we got him in the 2nd it would be a steal.

Arenas is about the exact same height as Thomas is, maybe half an inch shorter -- completely irrelevant. Arenas was not burned twice. #23 (can't remember the name) got burned as he and SS Justin Woodall were out of position on the 2nd TD. Anyone trying to imply that Arenas is a poor player or had a poor game doesn't know what the heck they're talking about. Arenas was outstanding and has been so all year. (5 interceptions, 12 TFL, 5 sacks) Then tack on his incredible PR/KR numbers, with 7 return TDs, and you've got yourself a day one talent.

Earl Thomas is not his listed 5-10; he's just under 5-9 or so. But I'm not worried about height with safeties, the concern is whether or not they can make plays in all ways. Does Thomas have any glaring weakness? Yes, yes he does, and it's tackling in general and playing the run. Fantastic in coverage, but poor in run support. 65 tackles all year. Not surprising for a 5-9 190 pound safety.

Lets compare SS Earl Thomas' numbers to middle rounder SS Kyle McCarthy of Notre Dame.

Thomas: 65 tackles, 4.5 TFL, 8 INT
McCarthy: 101 tackles, 3 TFL, 5 INT (in two less games).

Hopefully this helps to further explain why Thomas is not a first-rounder right now in my eyes.
  • TX9R
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,225
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by TX9R:
So Thomas' size scares people off, but Arenas is no problem. He looked even smaller? How's he gonna cover most NFL WRs, he's maybe 5'7. Do you take a guy in the 2nd strictly as a returner?

I wouldn't draft Arenas with the intention of starting him at CB...maybe a dime back. But his value would be in the return game.....personally I have other people in mind to fit that role.

And how everyone forgets how Arenas was burned by Shipley for a TD, twice I think.

But some make it like being 5'10" as a Safety won't work in the NFL when some of the best are that height. But whatever that's their opinion, I'll stick with my guns that I'd still hope we get Thomas in the 1st, shoot if we got him in the 2nd it would be a steal.

Arenas is about the exact same height as Thomas is, maybe half an inch shorter -- completely irrelevant. Arenas was not burned twice. #23 (can't remember the name) got burned as he and SS Justin Woodall were out of position on the 2nd TD. Anyone trying to imply that Arenas is a poor player or had a poor game doesn't know what the heck they're talking about. Arenas was outstanding and has been so all year. (5 interceptions, 12 TFL, 5 sacks) Then tack on his incredible PR/KR numbers, with 7 return TDs, and you've got yourself a day one talent.

Earl Thomas is not his listed 5-10; he's just under 5-9 or so. But I'm not worried about height with safeties, the concern is whether or not they can make plays in all ways. Does Thomas have any glaring weakness? Yes, yes he does, and it's tackling in general and playing the run. Fantastic in coverage, but poor in run support. 65 tackles all year. Not surprising for a 5-9 190 pound safety.

Lets compare SS Earl Thomas' numbers to middle rounder SS Kyle McCarthy of Notre Dame.

Thomas: 65 tackles, 4.5 TFL, 8 INT
McCarthy: 101 tackles, 3 TFL, 5 INT (in two less games).

Hopefully this helps to further explain why Thomas is not a first-rounder right now in my eyes.

I get your reasoning, but that's a poor comparison. ND's front 7 is terrible, so that guy HAS to make all the tackles, wheras Texas it outstanding. Tackles for a FS are an overrated stat completely dependant on the guys in front of him. Personally I hope Thomas stays another year, he's a playmaker.
Originally posted by jta854:
Originally posted by rtj03:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Now that the BCS game is about over, who are the players that improved their status and why, and who are those who dropped in their status and why? Also who would be players that we would look at?

Gainers:
DT Lamarr Houston - continued to play hard and was the one guy to consistently get pressure. Beat Mike Johnson badly several times early on.
WR Shipley - Even without their QB, has played extremely well. Two TDs.
CB Arenas - Sure he got beat once on the double-move, but never judge someone on one play. He had one bad play, the entire rest of the game he had/has been very good out there.
ILB McClain - solid all game long. A mistake being offsides, but that's about the only negative you can take from McClain tonight.

Losers:
S Earl Thomas - not physical enough, didn't make a peep in the game.
DT Terrance Cody - simply a situational player, falls deeper into the 2nd round.
SS Woodall - Blown coverages. Woodall may have to move to OLB in the Pro's.

Static (non-moving):
OLB Sergio Kindle - Did some good things, but not enough to really make any significant movement.
OG Mike Johnson - Got beat some early on, but bounce back with some outstanding blocks to even things out.

"OLB Sergio Kindle - Did some good things, but not enough to really make any significant movement."

Kindle had a good night and I bet his stock is up after this game.

Kindle looks like a possible “Manny Lawson 2.0.” I have said all season that I think he is overrated as a 3-4 OLB. He is a great athlete, and has ideal measurable, although he doesn’t look like he is 255lb. When I watch him rush the passer he seems to use only his speed and quickness, never any pass rush moves. He is a good enough athlete to be successful in the NFL, but I’m not wild about drafting Kindle to help with our pass rush.

The big difference between Manny and Kindle is that of "quick-twitch." Manny is a great athlete and amazingly fast in a straight-line for someone with his size...but he's not very quick in terms of change-of-direction (which is critical for LBs). He actually struggled a bit at his combine with the LB drills, and his ability to cover is a bit over-hyped. Manny is getting better with each year, but his lack of quickness (there's a difference between being fast and quick) does hurt him.

Kindle though is an explosive, "quick-twitch" athlete and former high school RB (rushed for over 8000 yards) who should be able to make a very smooth transition to NFL OLB...in fact, I think he'll be better playing in space at the pro level than he was in college going up against guys 50-75 lbs bigger than him on every down.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Now that the BCS game is about over, who are the players that improved their status and why, and who are those who dropped in their status and why? Also who would be players that we would look at?

Gainers:
DT Lamarr Houston - continued to play hard and was the one guy to consistently get pressure. Beat Mike Johnson badly several times early on.
WR Shipley - Even without their QB, has played extremely well. Two TDs.
CB Arenas - Sure he got beat once on the double-move, but never judge someone on one play. He had one bad play, the entire rest of the game he had/has been very good out there.
ILB McClain - solid all game long. A mistake being offsides, but that's about the only negative you can take from McClain tonight.

Losers:
S Earl Thomas - not physical enough, didn't make a peep in the game.
DT Terrance Cody - simply a situational player, falls deeper into the 2nd round.
SS Woodall - Blown coverages. Woodall may have to move to OLB in the Pro's.

Static (non-moving):
OLB Sergio Kindle - Did some good things, but not enough to really make any significant movement.
OG Mike Johnson - Got beat some early on, but bounce back with some outstanding blocks to even things out.

I wouldn't say "Loser", its not his fault Bama ran the ball 90% of the time with Ingram and Richardson, who Thomas made a nice open field tackle on 3rd and 2. And not physical enough, dude was throwing his body AT the RB's, he could be blamed for miss tackles, but not physical enough C'mon.

Same goes with Cody, Bama knew Texas would pass more so they went with more of a pass rushing front.

We saw two different things last night. Sure, Thomas is not at fault for the fact that Alabama didn't pass much, but it's going to take more than one good tackle in a game to make people believe you have first round talent. Thomas plays Strong Safety for Texas -- Other guys like T.J. Ward, Reshad Jones, Kam Chancellor, even Larry Asante and Kyle McCarthy consistently make noise in both facets of the game no matter what the run-pass ratio. As I said before, Thomas' "ballhawk" status and him getting a bunch of interceptions is not enough.

He lost ground as far as the "1st round" standard that many around here place on him. If he was expected to play like a 2nd rounder or later, that'd be totally different, and I would not classify him as one of the "Losers" of the game. Hope that makes sense.

As far as Cody, that absolutely proves my point. He can't play on every down, and he'll be virtually useless against most passing teams in the league, and in such a pass-happy league these days, would that not concern you? You don't want to spend a 1st on a situational player like that.

So let me get this straight, your going to base one game with an opposing QB passing for only 11 times. BTW Thomas had more than 1 tackle, went head to head with Ingram in the 2nd quarter. In that game and lined up at SS and FS, but due to his cover skills, IMO, he'll be a FS in the NFL.

Oh and BTW Thomas has the same amount of tackles than both TJ Ward and Kam Chancellor, but more solo tackles than Chancellor.

Kolohe! Ward and Chancellor are both 2nd and 3rd round prospects, respectively, and that's the thing -- that's exactly how I see Thomas (2nd, not 3rd, to be clear here). Even Kansas' Darrell Stuckey had 93 tackles, 3.5 TFL and a sack. I'm sure Thomas likely will be a FS when he comes to the NFL, but he should go back to school for one more year and with another good one, he'd probably vault himself into the late 1st to early 2nd.