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MadDog December 10th Top 13 Pick Mock Draft

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

No offense but this is WAY better than the 1st round selections you suggested. If the Niners do what you want and select Dez Bryant and Taylor Mays then Scott will show his stupidity. Maddog's picks are solid. Sure the Niners might be able to move down with the 2nd first rd pick but I dont think he was making trades with the first 13 picks. Joe Haden should absolutley be our pick but should be the first of the first rounders.

I would definitely take Dez Bryant. We need more weapons still. Look at N.O. or AZ or Indy or the Pats. They have 4, 5, 6 weapons on the field often times. The league is going towards Offense with all the rule changes.

I'm ok with somebody different from Taylor Mays.

I definitely don't want Joe Haden or an corner with one of our firsts. Nate Clements will come back and he is fine with pass rush if we can get a pass rush. Something we haven't had in years around here.

Nate Clements is on the decline in my opinion and would be better suited for FS similar to the path that Ronnie Lott took. Joe Haden would come in and be our best corner. We need a passrusher and a corner to become an elite defense. On offense we need a solid RT and someone like CJ Spiller. While Bryant would be nice to have he is a luxury we cant afford.

LOL.

He's not on the decline. You guys on the WZ are hillarious about Nate. He jumped one route vs. Atlanta and people think he can't play. He's shut down Larry Fitzgerald many times since he's been here. And he played super vs Andre Johnson. We have far bigger problems on this roster than Nate Clements.

Zero pass rush + Safety problems = the biggest problems with our pass defense.

You can laugh all you want but the guy has been a disapointment in my eyes. Maybe the money is part of that but it has not proved to be a good signing. But take him out of the equation. Dre Bly sucks and I think Brown is overmatched. You simply cannot have enough very good corners.

You talk about having offensive weapons. Well if the teams in the league are doing that wouldnt it make sense that you should have the defensive studs to cover them? WHat is laughable is that you think are cornerbacks are strong enough to do that. Joe Haden would add a LOT to this team. Put Haden and someone like Hughes or Graham in our lineup next year and you might actually see us get to the next level. I dont think you can say the same for adding Dez Bryant.

What more does Nate have to do to get your respect. He is a top 15 corner in this league, and he has been great in run support. Lock down corners don't really exist anymore. I can think of maybe 3-5 guys that would classify as lock down corners. I think Brown is doing fine considering how little time he has had as a starter, Spencer has played very well and should be a contributer next year an Bly/Harris would be great in nickel/dime situations. If Sing/Scot think he is the BPA when our pick is up then sure I like the guy and I think he would improve our team and honestly it wouldn't surprise me to much if KC picks him before us he is a player on the rise.

[ Edited by joey82 on Dec 10, 2009 at 22:02:57 ]
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

No offense but this is WAY better than the 1st round selections you suggested. If the Niners do what you want and select Dez Bryant and Taylor Mays then Scott will show his stupidity. Maddog's picks are solid. Sure the Niners might be able to move down with the 2nd first rd pick but I dont think he was making trades with the first 13 picks. Joe Haden should absolutley be our pick but should be the first of the first rounders.

I would definitely take Dez Bryant. We need more weapons still. Look at N.O. or AZ or Indy or the Pats. They have 4, 5, 6 weapons on the field often times. The league is going towards Offense with all the rule changes.

I'm ok with somebody different from Taylor Mays.

I definitely don't want Joe Haden or an corner with one of our firsts. Nate Clements will come back and he is fine with pass rush if we can get a pass rush. Something we haven't had in years around here.

Nate Clements is on the decline in my opinion and would be better suited for FS similar to the path that Ronnie Lott took. Joe Haden would come in and be our best corner. We need a passrusher and a corner to become an elite defense. On offense we need a solid RT and someone like CJ Spiller. While Bryant would be nice to have he is a luxury we cant afford.

LOL.

He's not on the decline. You guys on the WZ are hillarious about Nate. He jumped one route vs. Atlanta and people think he can't play. He's shut down Larry Fitzgerald many times since he's been here. And he played super vs Andre Johnson. We have far bigger problems on this roster than Nate Clements.

Zero pass rush + Safety problems = the biggest problems with our pass defense.

You can laugh all you want but the guy has been a disapointment in my eyes. Maybe the money is part of that but it has not proved to be a good signing. But take him out of the equation. Dre Bly sucks and I think Brown is overmatched. You simply cannot have enough very good corners.

You talk about having offensive weapons. Well if the teams in the league are doing that wouldnt it make sense that you should have the defensive studs to cover them? WHat is laughable is that you think are cornerbacks are strong enough to do that. Joe Haden would add a LOT to this team. Put Haden and someone like Hughes or Graham in our lineup next year and you might actually see us get to the next level. I dont think you can say the same for adding Dez Bryant.

Our Offense would be unbelievable with Dez Bryant, Crabtree, VD, maybe C.J. Spiller and the emergence of Alex Smith.

I just don't see Joe Haden as a real shutdown corner at the NFL level. I guess it depends how fast he runs and how athletic he turns out to be. He has lots of great players on his college team too which makes him look better than he perhaps is. I need to know more about Haden first at the workouts to say I would want him or not. But an any rate I wouldn't even put CB in our top 5 needs for 2010.

LOL You have no idea what you are talking about if you dont think CB is one of our top 5 needs. As far as shutdown corners.... well our corners certainly are not shut down corners. There might be about 2 of those in the entire league. I never said that Haden was going to be the next Champ Bailey but that he would come in and start and be an immediate impact.

We can agree to disagree on this. I will never believe that we should take Bryant and you wont think we should take Haden. So be it.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

No offense but this is WAY better than the 1st round selections you suggested. If the Niners do what you want and select Dez Bryant and Taylor Mays then Scott will show his stupidity. Maddog's picks are solid. Sure the Niners might be able to move down with the 2nd first rd pick but I dont think he was making trades with the first 13 picks. Joe Haden should absolutley be our pick but should be the first of the first rounders.

I would definitely take Dez Bryant. We need more weapons still. Look at N.O. or AZ or Indy or the Pats. They have 4, 5, 6 weapons on the field often times. The league is going towards Offense with all the rule changes.

I'm ok with somebody different from Taylor Mays.

I definitely don't want Joe Haden or an corner with one of our firsts. Nate Clements will come back and he is fine with pass rush if we can get a pass rush. Something we haven't had in years around here.

Nate Clements is on the decline in my opinion and would be better suited for FS similar to the path that Ronnie Lott took. Joe Haden would come in and be our best corner. We need a passrusher and a corner to become an elite defense. On offense we need a solid RT and someone like CJ Spiller. While Bryant would be nice to have he is a luxury we cant afford.

LOL.

He's not on the decline. You guys on the WZ are hillarious about Nate. He jumped one route vs. Atlanta and people think he can't play. He's shut down Larry Fitzgerald many times since he's been here. And he played super vs Andre Johnson. We have far bigger problems on this roster than Nate Clements.

Zero pass rush + Safety problems = the biggest problems with our pass defense.

You can laugh all you want but the guy has been a disapointment in my eyes. Maybe the money is part of that but it has not proved to be a good signing. But take him out of the equation. Dre Bly sucks and I think Brown is overmatched. You simply cannot have enough very good corners.

You talk about having offensive weapons. Well if the teams in the league are doing that wouldnt it make sense that you should have the defensive studs to cover them? WHat is laughable is that you think are cornerbacks are strong enough to do that. Joe Haden would add a LOT to this team. Put Haden and someone like Hughes or Graham in our lineup next year and you might actually see us get to the next level. I dont think you can say the same for adding Dez Bryant.

Our Offense would be unbelievable with Dez Bryant, Crabtree, VD, maybe C.J. Spiller and the emergence of Alex Smith.

I just don't see Joe Haden as a real shutdown corner at the NFL level. I guess it depends how fast he runs and how athletic he turns out to be. He has lots of great players on his college team too which makes him look better than he perhaps is. I need to know more about Haden first at the workouts to say I would want him or not. But an any rate I wouldn't even put CB in our top 5 needs for 2010.

LOL You have no idea what you are talking about if you dont think CB is one of our top 5 needs. As far as shutdown corners.... well our corners certainly are not shut down corners. There might be about 2 of those in the entire league. I never said that Haden was going to be the next Champ Bailey but that he would come in and start and be an immediate impact.

We can agree to disagree on this. I will never believe that we should take Bryant and you wont think we should take Haden. So be it.

I don't see Haden being as good as Champ Bailey and neither do you. And therefore I don't want to spend a high or mid 1st rounder on him.

I'm not completely sold on Dez Bryant but I do know we need even more weapons. Look at N.O. They have 5 or more phenomonel weapons on the field at a time and they are the best team in football.

It's the wave of the future. Stack the field with tons of speedy awesome weapons and have QB in the spread offense. The running teams are mostly losers in todays NFL.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

wtf ? we need elite talent on the line and at cornerback. you could always find pass rush in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
Originally posted by YuNGaCE:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

wtf ? we need elite talent on the line and at cornerback. you could always find pass rush in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

In fairness you could make the same argument about finding a RT or CB in the second and third rounds also (especially RTs).
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

No offense but this is WAY better than the 1st round selections you suggested. If the Niners do what you want and select Dez Bryant and Taylor Mays then Scott will show his stupidity. Maddog's picks are solid. Sure the Niners might be able to move down with the 2nd first rd pick but I dont think he was making trades with the first 13 picks. Joe Haden should absolutley be our pick but should be the first of the first rounders.

I would definitely take Dez Bryant. We need more weapons still. Look at N.O. or AZ or Indy or the Pats. They have 4, 5, 6 weapons on the field often times. The league is going towards Offense with all the rule changes.

I'm ok with somebody different from Taylor Mays.

I definitely don't want Joe Haden or an corner with one of our firsts. Nate Clements will come back and he is fine with pass rush if we can get a pass rush. Something we haven't had in years around here.

Nate Clements is on the decline in my opinion and would be better suited for FS similar to the path that Ronnie Lott took. Joe Haden would come in and be our best corner. We need a passrusher and a corner to become an elite defense. On offense we need a solid RT and someone like CJ Spiller. While Bryant would be nice to have he is a luxury we cant afford.

LOL.

He's not on the decline. You guys on the WZ are hillarious about Nate. He jumped one route vs. Atlanta and people think he can't play. He's shut down Larry Fitzgerald many times since he's been here. And he played super vs Andre Johnson. We have far bigger problems on this roster than Nate Clements.

Zero pass rush + Safety problems = the biggest problems with our pass defense.

You can laugh all you want but the guy has been a disapointment in my eyes. Maybe the money is part of that but it has not proved to be a good signing. But take him out of the equation. Dre Bly sucks and I think Brown is overmatched. You simply cannot have enough very good corners.

You talk about having offensive weapons. Well if the teams in the league are doing that wouldnt it make sense that you should have the defensive studs to cover them? WHat is laughable is that you think are cornerbacks are strong enough to do that. Joe Haden would add a LOT to this team. Put Haden and someone like Hughes or Graham in our lineup next year and you might actually see us get to the next level. I dont think you can say the same for adding Dez Bryant.

Our Offense would be unbelievable with Dez Bryant, Crabtree, VD, maybe C.J. Spiller and the emergence of Alex Smith.

I just don't see Joe Haden as a real shutdown corner at the NFL level. I guess it depends how fast he runs and how athletic he turns out to be. He has lots of great players on his college team too which makes him look better than he perhaps is. I need to know more about Haden first at the workouts to say I would want him or not. But an any rate I wouldn't even put CB in our top 5 needs for 2010.

LOL You have no idea what you are talking about if you dont think CB is one of our top 5 needs. As far as shutdown corners.... well our corners certainly are not shut down corners. There might be about 2 of those in the entire league. I never said that Haden was going to be the next Champ Bailey but that he would come in and start and be an immediate impact.

We can agree to disagree on this. I will never believe that we should take Bryant and you wont think we should take Haden. So be it.

I don't see Haden being as good as Champ Bailey and neither do you. And therefore I don't want to spend a high or mid 1st rounder on him.

I'm not completely sold on Dez Bryant but I do know we need even more weapons. Look at N.O. They have 5 or more phenomonel weapons on the field at a time and they are the best team in football.

It's the wave of the future. Stack the field with tons of speedy awesome weapons and have QB in the spread offense. The running teams are mostly losers in todays NFL.

New Orleans Weapons.. I guess you dont have to spend top 10 picks on wrs or backs to get weapons. In fact, the one guy they did spend that early, Reggie Bush, has been a disappointment.

Colston 7th rd pick
Meachem late 1st rd pick
Henderson 2nd rd pick
Moore undrafted FA
Pierre THomas undrafted FA
Do you see Suh as a 3-4 DE or NT?
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

No offense but this is WAY better than the 1st round selections you suggested. If the Niners do what you want and select Dez Bryant and Taylor Mays then Scott will show his stupidity. Maddog's picks are solid. Sure the Niners might be able to move down with the 2nd first rd pick but I dont think he was making trades with the first 13 picks. Joe Haden should absolutley be our pick but should be the first of the first rounders.

I would definitely take Dez Bryant. We need more weapons still. Look at N.O. or AZ or Indy or the Pats. They have 4, 5, 6 weapons on the field often times. The league is going towards Offense with all the rule changes.

I'm ok with somebody different from Taylor Mays.

I definitely don't want Joe Haden or an corner with one of our firsts. Nate Clements will come back and he is fine with pass rush if we can get a pass rush. Something we haven't had in years around here.

Nate Clements is on the decline in my opinion and would be better suited for FS similar to the path that Ronnie Lott took. Joe Haden would come in and be our best corner. We need a passrusher and a corner to become an elite defense. On offense we need a solid RT and someone like CJ Spiller. While Bryant would be nice to have he is a luxury we cant afford.

LOL.

He's not on the decline. You guys on the WZ are hillarious about Nate. He jumped one route vs. Atlanta and people think he can't play. He's shut down Larry Fitzgerald many times since he's been here. And he played super vs Andre Johnson. We have far bigger problems on this roster than Nate Clements.

Zero pass rush + Safety problems = the biggest problems with our pass defense.

You can laugh all you want but the guy has been a disapointment in my eyes. Maybe the money is part of that but it has not proved to be a good signing. But take him out of the equation. Dre Bly sucks and I think Brown is overmatched. You simply cannot have enough very good corners.

You talk about having offensive weapons. Well if the teams in the league are doing that wouldnt it make sense that you should have the defensive studs to cover them? WHat is laughable is that you think are cornerbacks are strong enough to do that. Joe Haden would add a LOT to this team. Put Haden and someone like Hughes or Graham in our lineup next year and you might actually see us get to the next level. I dont think you can say the same for adding Dez Bryant.

Our Offense would be unbelievable with Dez Bryant, Crabtree, VD, maybe C.J. Spiller and the emergence of Alex Smith.

I just don't see Joe Haden as a real shutdown corner at the NFL level. I guess it depends how fast he runs and how athletic he turns out to be. He has lots of great players on his college team too which makes him look better than he perhaps is. I need to know more about Haden first at the workouts to say I would want him or not. But an any rate I wouldn't even put CB in our top 5 needs for 2010.

LOL You have no idea what you are talking about if you dont think CB is one of our top 5 needs. As far as shutdown corners.... well our corners certainly are not shut down corners. There might be about 2 of those in the entire league. I never said that Haden was going to be the next Champ Bailey but that he would come in and start and be an immediate impact.

We can agree to disagree on this. I will never believe that we should take Bryant and you wont think we should take Haden. So be it.

I don't see Haden being as good as Champ Bailey and neither do you. And therefore I don't want to spend a high or mid 1st rounder on him.

I'm not completely sold on Dez Bryant but I do know we need even more weapons. Look at N.O. They have 5 or more phenomonel weapons on the field at a time and they are the best team in football.

It's the wave of the future. Stack the field with tons of speedy awesome weapons and have QB in the spread offense. The running teams are mostly losers in todays NFL.

New Orleans Weapons.. I guess you dont have to spend top 10 picks on wrs or backs to get weapons. In fact, the one guy they did spend that early, Reggie Bush, has been a disappointment.

Colston 7th rd pick
Meachem late 1st rd pick
Henderson 2nd rd pick
Moore undrafted FA
Pierre THomas undrafted FA

Sure, but we can look at almost any team and any position and find impact players that weren't first rounders.

When it comes to the draft I think you have to look at each year on its own and not compare to other years. If I remember right two years ago not a single WR was taken in the first round, but last year there were several and all of them (except heyward-bey) are contributing and producing for the team that drafted them.

As long as we take BPA and don't reach based on need (I am especially worried about us doing that on an OL position in the first round) then I will be stoked.

I really don't want the third best OL prospect with a pick inside the top 12.
(You would think the Lions and Seahawks would be smart enough to take OL)

[ Edited by joey82 on Dec 10, 2009 at 22:30:16 ]
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

No offense but this is WAY better than the 1st round selections you suggested. If the Niners do what you want and select Dez Bryant and Taylor Mays then Scott will show his stupidity. Maddog's picks are solid. Sure the Niners might be able to move down with the 2nd first rd pick but I dont think he was making trades with the first 13 picks. Joe Haden should absolutley be our pick but should be the first of the first rounders.

I would definitely take Dez Bryant. We need more weapons still. Look at N.O. or AZ or Indy or the Pats. They have 4, 5, 6 weapons on the field often times. The league is going towards Offense with all the rule changes.

I'm ok with somebody different from Taylor Mays.

I definitely don't want Joe Haden or an corner with one of our firsts. Nate Clements will come back and he is fine with pass rush if we can get a pass rush. Something we haven't had in years around here.

Nate Clements is on the decline in my opinion and would be better suited for FS similar to the path that Ronnie Lott took. Joe Haden would come in and be our best corner. We need a passrusher and a corner to become an elite defense. On offense we need a solid RT and someone like CJ Spiller. While Bryant would be nice to have he is a luxury we cant afford.

LOL.

He's not on the decline. You guys on the WZ are hillarious about Nate. He jumped one route vs. Atlanta and people think he can't play. He's shut down Larry Fitzgerald many times since he's been here. And he played super vs Andre Johnson. We have far bigger problems on this roster than Nate Clements.

Zero pass rush + Safety problems = the biggest problems with our pass defense.

You can laugh all you want but the guy has been a disapointment in my eyes. Maybe the money is part of that but it has not proved to be a good signing. But take him out of the equation. Dre Bly sucks and I think Brown is overmatched. You simply cannot have enough very good corners.

You talk about having offensive weapons. Well if the teams in the league are doing that wouldnt it make sense that you should have the defensive studs to cover them? WHat is laughable is that you think are cornerbacks are strong enough to do that. Joe Haden would add a LOT to this team. Put Haden and someone like Hughes or Graham in our lineup next year and you might actually see us get to the next level. I dont think you can say the same for adding Dez Bryant.

Our Offense would be unbelievable with Dez Bryant, Crabtree, VD, maybe C.J. Spiller and the emergence of Alex Smith.

I just don't see Joe Haden as a real shutdown corner at the NFL level. I guess it depends how fast he runs and how athletic he turns out to be. He has lots of great players on his college team too which makes him look better than he perhaps is. I need to know more about Haden first at the workouts to say I would want him or not. But an any rate I wouldn't even put CB in our top 5 needs for 2010.

LOL You have no idea what you are talking about if you dont think CB is one of our top 5 needs. As far as shutdown corners.... well our corners certainly are not shut down corners. There might be about 2 of those in the entire league. I never said that Haden was going to be the next Champ Bailey but that he would come in and start and be an immediate impact.

We can agree to disagree on this. I will never believe that we should take Bryant and you wont think we should take Haden. So be it.

I don't see Haden being as good as Champ Bailey and neither do you. And therefore I don't want to spend a high or mid 1st rounder on him.

I'm not completely sold on Dez Bryant but I do know we need even more weapons. Look at N.O. They have 5 or more phenomonel weapons on the field at a time and they are the best team in football.

It's the wave of the future. Stack the field with tons of speedy awesome weapons and have QB in the spread offense. The running teams are mostly losers in todays NFL.

New Orleans Weapons.. I guess you dont have to spend top 10 picks on wrs or backs to get weapons. In fact, the one guy they did spend that early, Reggie Bush, has been a disappointment.

Colston 7th rd pick
Meachem late 1st rd pick
Henderson 2nd rd pick
Moore undrafted FA
Pierre THomas undrafted FA

Colston is just like a 1st rounder. In fact far better than most 1st rounders. And you forget Reggie Bush who when healthy is an excellent speedy weapon out of the backfield with great hands. And you forget Shockey who was a 1st rounder and an elite talent.

~ Colston - Elite talent regardless of the round he was picked in (People missed on him).
~ Meachem - 1st rounder.
~ Bush - When healthy and utilized he is an excellent receiver out of the backfield.
~ Shockey - 1st rounder Giants and FA. Elite talent.
~ Henderson - A very fast and good player. 2nd rounder.

They have elite talent all over the field. The biggest lie in the world is that it's all Drew Brees.

In comparison we have this.

VD - drops the ball a lot.
Crabtree - good but nowhere near Colston.

[ Edited by SanDiego49er on Dec 10, 2009 at 22:58:46 ]
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

No offense but this is WAY better than the 1st round selections you suggested. If the Niners do what you want and select Dez Bryant and Taylor Mays then Scott will show his stupidity. Maddog's picks are solid. Sure the Niners might be able to move down with the 2nd first rd pick but I dont think he was making trades with the first 13 picks. Joe Haden should absolutley be our pick but should be the first of the first rounders.

I would definitely take Dez Bryant. We need more weapons still. Look at N.O. or AZ or Indy or the Pats. They have 4, 5, 6 weapons on the field often times. The league is going towards Offense with all the rule changes.

I'm ok with somebody different from Taylor Mays.

I definitely don't want Joe Haden or an corner with one of our firsts. Nate Clements will come back and he is fine with pass rush if we can get a pass rush. Something we haven't had in years around here.

Nate Clements is on the decline in my opinion and would be better suited for FS similar to the path that Ronnie Lott took. Joe Haden would come in and be our best corner. We need a passrusher and a corner to become an elite defense. On offense we need a solid RT and someone like CJ Spiller. While Bryant would be nice to have he is a luxury we cant afford.

LOL.

He's not on the decline. You guys on the WZ are hillarious about Nate. He jumped one route vs. Atlanta and people think he can't play. He's shut down Larry Fitzgerald many times since he's been here. And he played super vs Andre Johnson. We have far bigger problems on this roster than Nate Clements.

Zero pass rush + Safety problems = the biggest problems with our pass defense.

You can laugh all you want but the guy has been a disapointment in my eyes. Maybe the money is part of that but it has not proved to be a good signing. But take him out of the equation. Dre Bly sucks and I think Brown is overmatched. You simply cannot have enough very good corners.

You talk about having offensive weapons. Well if the teams in the league are doing that wouldnt it make sense that you should have the defensive studs to cover them? WHat is laughable is that you think are cornerbacks are strong enough to do that. Joe Haden would add a LOT to this team. Put Haden and someone like Hughes or Graham in our lineup next year and you might actually see us get to the next level. I dont think you can say the same for adding Dez Bryant.

Our Offense would be unbelievable with Dez Bryant, Crabtree, VD, maybe C.J. Spiller and the emergence of Alex Smith.

I just don't see Joe Haden as a real shutdown corner at the NFL level. I guess it depends how fast he runs and how athletic he turns out to be. He has lots of great players on his college team too which makes him look better than he perhaps is. I need to know more about Haden first at the workouts to say I would want him or not. But an any rate I wouldn't even put CB in our top 5 needs for 2010.

LOL You have no idea what you are talking about if you dont think CB is one of our top 5 needs. As far as shutdown corners.... well our corners certainly are not shut down corners. There might be about 2 of those in the entire league. I never said that Haden was going to be the next Champ Bailey but that he would come in and start and be an immediate impact.

We can agree to disagree on this. I will never believe that we should take Bryant and you wont think we should take Haden. So be it.

I don't see Haden being as good as Champ Bailey and neither do you. And therefore I don't want to spend a high or mid 1st rounder on him.

I'm not completely sold on Dez Bryant but I do know we need even more weapons. Look at N.O. They have 5 or more phenomonel weapons on the field at a time and they are the best team in football.

It's the wave of the future. Stack the field with tons of speedy awesome weapons and have QB in the spread offense. The running teams are mostly losers in todays NFL.

New Orleans Weapons.. I guess you dont have to spend top 10 picks on wrs or backs to get weapons. In fact, the one guy they did spend that early, Reggie Bush, has been a disappointment.

Colston 7th rd pick
Meachem late 1st rd pick
Henderson 2nd rd pick
Moore undrafted FA
Pierre THomas undrafted FA

Colston is just like a 1st rounder. In fact far better than most 1st rounders. And you forget Reggie Bush who when healthy is an excellent speedy weapon out of the backfield with great hands. And you forget Shockey who was a 1st rounder and an elite talent.

~ Colston - Elite talent regardless of the round he was picked in (People missed on him).
~ Meachem - 1st rounder.
~ Bush - When healthy and utilized he is an excellent receiver out of the backfield.
~ Shockey - 1st rounder Giants and FA. Elite talent.
~ Henderson - A very fast and good player. 2nd rounder.

They have elite talent all over the field. The biggest lie in the world is that it's all Drew Brees.

In comparison we have this.

VD - drops the ball a lot.
Crabtree - good but nowhere near Colston.

Yes they have some weapons. And yes.. only 1 WR was taken in round 1 and it was a late first round pick. My point is.. you dont have to take 2 wrs in the top 10 of the draft to get weapons at that spot. The Saints are the perfect example of that.

By the way.. dont even try to suggest that Shockey is better than VD at this point of their careers. I loved the way you described Shockey as an elite talent and VD as someone who just drops passes.
Originally posted by Dino:
Do you see Suh as a 3-4 DE or NT?

4-3 DT or 3-4 DE.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

No offense but this is WAY better than the 1st round selections you suggested. If the Niners do what you want and select Dez Bryant and Taylor Mays then Scott will show his stupidity. Maddog's picks are solid. Sure the Niners might be able to move down with the 2nd first rd pick but I dont think he was making trades with the first 13 picks. Joe Haden should absolutley be our pick but should be the first of the first rounders.

I would definitely take Dez Bryant. We need more weapons still. Look at N.O. or AZ or Indy or the Pats. They have 4, 5, 6 weapons on the field often times. The league is going towards Offense with all the rule changes.

I'm ok with somebody different from Taylor Mays.

I definitely don't want Joe Haden or an corner with one of our firsts. Nate Clements will come back and he is fine with pass rush if we can get a pass rush. Something we haven't had in years around here.

Nate Clements is on the decline in my opinion and would be better suited for FS similar to the path that Ronnie Lott took. Joe Haden would come in and be our best corner. We need a passrusher and a corner to become an elite defense. On offense we need a solid RT and someone like CJ Spiller. While Bryant would be nice to have he is a luxury we cant afford.

LOL.

He's not on the decline. You guys on the WZ are hillarious about Nate. He jumped one route vs. Atlanta and people think he can't play. He's shut down Larry Fitzgerald many times since he's been here. And he played super vs Andre Johnson. We have far bigger problems on this roster than Nate Clements.

Zero pass rush + Safety problems = the biggest problems with our pass defense.

You can laugh all you want but the guy has been a disapointment in my eyes. Maybe the money is part of that but it has not proved to be a good signing. But take him out of the equation. Dre Bly sucks and I think Brown is overmatched. You simply cannot have enough very good corners.

You talk about having offensive weapons. Well if the teams in the league are doing that wouldnt it make sense that you should have the defensive studs to cover them? WHat is laughable is that you think are cornerbacks are strong enough to do that. Joe Haden would add a LOT to this team. Put Haden and someone like Hughes or Graham in our lineup next year and you might actually see us get to the next level. I dont think you can say the same for adding Dez Bryant.

Our Offense would be unbelievable with Dez Bryant, Crabtree, VD, maybe C.J. Spiller and the emergence of Alex Smith.

I just don't see Joe Haden as a real shutdown corner at the NFL level. I guess it depends how fast he runs and how athletic he turns out to be. He has lots of great players on his college team too which makes him look better than he perhaps is. I need to know more about Haden first at the workouts to say I would want him or not. But an any rate I wouldn't even put CB in our top 5 needs for 2010.

LOL You have no idea what you are talking about if you dont think CB is one of our top 5 needs. As far as shutdown corners.... well our corners certainly are not shut down corners. There might be about 2 of those in the entire league. I never said that Haden was going to be the next Champ Bailey but that he would come in and start and be an immediate impact.

We can agree to disagree on this. I will never believe that we should take Bryant and you wont think we should take Haden. So be it.

I don't see Haden being as good as Champ Bailey and neither do you. And therefore I don't want to spend a high or mid 1st rounder on him.

I'm not completely sold on Dez Bryant but I do know we need even more weapons. Look at N.O. They have 5 or more phenomonel weapons on the field at a time and they are the best team in football.

It's the wave of the future. Stack the field with tons of speedy awesome weapons and have QB in the spread offense. The running teams are mostly losers in todays NFL.

New Orleans Weapons.. I guess you dont have to spend top 10 picks on wrs or backs to get weapons. In fact, the one guy they did spend that early, Reggie Bush, has been a disappointment.

Colston 7th rd pick
Meachem late 1st rd pick
Henderson 2nd rd pick
Moore undrafted FA
Pierre THomas undrafted FA

Colston is just like a 1st rounder. In fact far better than most 1st rounders. And you forget Reggie Bush who when healthy is an excellent speedy weapon out of the backfield with great hands. And you forget Shockey who was a 1st rounder and an elite talent.

~ Colston - Elite talent regardless of the round he was picked in (People missed on him).
~ Meachem - 1st rounder.
~ Bush - When healthy and utilized he is an excellent receiver out of the backfield.
~ Shockey - 1st rounder Giants and FA. Elite talent.
~ Henderson - A very fast and good player. 2nd rounder.

They have elite talent all over the field. The biggest lie in the world is that it's all Drew Brees.

In comparison we have this.

VD - drops the ball a lot.
Crabtree - good but nowhere near Colston.

Yes they have some weapons. And yes.. only 1 WR was taken in round 1 and it was a late first round pick. My point is.. you dont have to take 2 wrs in the top 10 of the draft to get weapons at that spot. The Saints are the perfect example of that.

By the way.. dont even try to suggest that Shockey is better than VD at this point of their careers. I loved the way you described Shockey as an elite talent and VD as someone who just drops passes.

Shockey is more sure handed but Davis is faster. But overall they have way, way more elite weapons than we do.

Even Crabtree is somewhat overrated on this board. He will never, ever be a Marques Colston or Larry Fitzgerald type. He's not going to take over the game but he can be a good possesion WR. Our WR's are STILL UNDER TALENTED by elite NFL standards. Our group is average or maybe a little below that. It was just in the HORRIFIC category before Crabtree got here. But that doesn't mean since he arrived we are suddenly fantastic. In fact we are far from it.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

No offense but this is WAY better than the 1st round selections you suggested. If the Niners do what you want and select Dez Bryant and Taylor Mays then Scott will show his stupidity. Maddog's picks are solid. Sure the Niners might be able to move down with the 2nd first rd pick but I dont think he was making trades with the first 13 picks. Joe Haden should absolutley be our pick but should be the first of the first rounders.

I would definitely take Dez Bryant. We need more weapons still. Look at N.O. or AZ or Indy or the Pats. They have 4, 5, 6 weapons on the field often times. The league is going towards Offense with all the rule changes.

I'm ok with somebody different from Taylor Mays.

I definitely don't want Joe Haden or an corner with one of our firsts. Nate Clements will come back and he is fine with pass rush if we can get a pass rush. Something we haven't had in years around here.

Nate Clements is on the decline in my opinion and would be better suited for FS similar to the path that Ronnie Lott took. Joe Haden would come in and be our best corner. We need a passrusher and a corner to become an elite defense. On offense we need a solid RT and someone like CJ Spiller. While Bryant would be nice to have he is a luxury we cant afford.

LOL.

He's not on the decline. You guys on the WZ are hillarious about Nate. He jumped one route vs. Atlanta and people think he can't play. He's shut down Larry Fitzgerald many times since he's been here. And he played super vs Andre Johnson. We have far bigger problems on this roster than Nate Clements.

Zero pass rush + Safety problems = the biggest problems with our pass defense.

You can laugh all you want but the guy has been a disapointment in my eyes. Maybe the money is part of that but it has not proved to be a good signing. But take him out of the equation. Dre Bly sucks and I think Brown is overmatched. You simply cannot have enough very good corners.

You talk about having offensive weapons. Well if the teams in the league are doing that wouldnt it make sense that you should have the defensive studs to cover them? WHat is laughable is that you think are cornerbacks are strong enough to do that. Joe Haden would add a LOT to this team. Put Haden and someone like Hughes or Graham in our lineup next year and you might actually see us get to the next level. I dont think you can say the same for adding Dez Bryant.

Our Offense would be unbelievable with Dez Bryant, Crabtree, VD, maybe C.J. Spiller and the emergence of Alex Smith.

I just don't see Joe Haden as a real shutdown corner at the NFL level. I guess it depends how fast he runs and how athletic he turns out to be. He has lots of great players on his college team too which makes him look better than he perhaps is. I need to know more about Haden first at the workouts to say I would want him or not. But an any rate I wouldn't even put CB in our top 5 needs for 2010.

LOL You have no idea what you are talking about if you dont think CB is one of our top 5 needs. As far as shutdown corners.... well our corners certainly are not shut down corners. There might be about 2 of those in the entire league. I never said that Haden was going to be the next Champ Bailey but that he would come in and start and be an immediate impact.

We can agree to disagree on this. I will never believe that we should take Bryant and you wont think we should take Haden. So be it.

I don't see Haden being as good as Champ Bailey and neither do you. And therefore I don't want to spend a high or mid 1st rounder on him.

I'm not completely sold on Dez Bryant but I do know we need even more weapons. Look at N.O. They have 5 or more phenomonel weapons on the field at a time and they are the best team in football.

It's the wave of the future. Stack the field with tons of speedy awesome weapons and have QB in the spread offense. The running teams are mostly losers in todays NFL.

New Orleans Weapons.. I guess you dont have to spend top 10 picks on wrs or backs to get weapons. In fact, the one guy they did spend that early, Reggie Bush, has been a disappointment.

Colston 7th rd pick
Meachem late 1st rd pick
Henderson 2nd rd pick
Moore undrafted FA
Pierre THomas undrafted FA

Colston is just like a 1st rounder. In fact far better than most 1st rounders. And you forget Reggie Bush who when healthy is an excellent speedy weapon out of the backfield with great hands. And you forget Shockey who was a 1st rounder and an elite talent.

~ Colston - Elite talent regardless of the round he was picked in (People missed on him).
~ Meachem - 1st rounder.
~ Bush - When healthy and utilized he is an excellent receiver out of the backfield.
~ Shockey - 1st rounder Giants and FA. Elite talent.
~ Henderson - A very fast and good player. 2nd rounder.

They have elite talent all over the field. The biggest lie in the world is that it's all Drew Brees.

In comparison we have this.

VD - drops the ball a lot.
Crabtree - good but nowhere near Colston.

Yes they have some weapons. And yes.. only 1 WR was taken in round 1 and it was a late first round pick. My point is.. you dont have to take 2 wrs in the top 10 of the draft to get weapons at that spot. The Saints are the perfect example of that.

By the way.. dont even try to suggest that Shockey is better than VD at this point of their careers. I loved the way you described Shockey as an elite talent and VD as someone who just drops passes.

Shockey is more sure handed but Davis is faster. But overall they have way, way more elite weapons than we do.

Even Crabtree is somewhat overrated on this board. He will never, ever be a Marques Colston or Larry Fitzgerald type. He's not going to take over the game but he can be a good possesion WR. Our WR's are STILL UNDER TALENTED by elite NFL standards. Our group is average or maybe a little below that. It was just in the HORRIFIC category before Crabtree got here. But that doesn't mean since he arrived we are suddenly fantastic. In fact we are far from it.

Just because we are in shot-gun...doesn't mean we need to have 4-5 WR formation. We can easily run the shot-gun with 2 WRs, 1 TE, and 2 RBs, or replace one RB with another TE. We have two good TEs for the passing game. We don't even need to draft a guy like Spiller. That's a luxury pick we can't afford. We are better off signing someone like Leon Washinton in the offseason and have him and Gore in the back field at the same time. Reggie Bush might get cut, though I rather have Leon because he is more focused and not flimsy.

Though, I completely agree with you on Clement, and I'm not a big fan of any CB in this draft, but I think drafting Dez Bryant will be a huge huge mistake. You knock on Vernon as a poor catcher, Dez Bryant will drive you nuts with his drops. He is notorious for losing concentration - reminds many of Braylon Edwards.

With the first 3 picks in 2010 draft, I want a FS, OLB, and a RT. On the second day, we can go and get a speedy slot WR and couple of guards.
We need Safety help badly. MadDog since I am sure we won't get Berry what is the next best FS and/SS we can draft in the 2nd round?

BTW I like you OL pick we really need RT. I just don't like Joe Haden much for that high of a pick. I'd rather take the best pass rusher or Dez Bryant.

In the 2nd Rd go with the best FS or SS.

3rd Rd go with with best OL/OG.
I don't like the Trent Williams pick, who I think projects to a backup tackle.

I don't think Joe Haden will be there to pick at 13 if he runs fast, as I would hope he would if we were to pick a CB high

Finally, I don't think Tampa Bay will pick an OT, their OL is quite good and they have a ton of other holes/needs. I would think Gerald McCoy or Eric Berry would be a more likely destination.