MadDog December 10th Top 13 Pick Mock Draft

Originally posted by dhp318:
I don't like the Trent Williams pick, who I think projects to a backup tackle.

I don't think Joe Haden will be there to pick at 13 if he runs fast, as I would hope he would if we were to pick a CB high

Finally, I don't think Tampa Bay will pick an OT, their OL is quite good and they have a ton of other holes/needs. I would think Gerald McCoy or Eric Berry would be a more likely destination.

I agree with Tampa going defense, their OL is actually pretty good. I see their defensive coach grabbing a guy like Suh, Berry, or McCoy.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
Maddog, i'm just curious. Let's say we finish high enough to draft Eric Berry -- or he miraculously falls to us -- and for our second 1st round pick CJ Spiller is on the board and the top 2 OTs are not, do we go for CJ Spiller?

I don't think there is any way the team passes on an OT in the first round this year, unless they pick up a young, solid OT in free agency. I think they see Oher playing well for the Ravens, and wish they had that second first rounder last year. Supposedly, Oher was next on their board, after Crabtree.

If the main juniors come out: Davis, Bulaga, Campbell, the Niners should have lots of guys to select from in the first round, whether it be with their first or second selection.

The point you make about the juniors coming out does raise the idea of taking one in the 2nd round. We will be drafting somewhat high in every round so we should be able to get a good RT prospect outside of the first round. I find it hard to imagine that Williams will grade out higher then Spiller, Haden, or even Bryant, and McClain for that matter. Obviously I would prefer Berry and Spiller in the first and take a OT in the second but beggars cant be choosers.

You're always the "BPA" kind of draft guru, what grade do you have for the above guys....by your own philosophy wouldn't Spiller be that above Williams?

[ Edited by jreff22 on Dec 11, 2009 at 07:22:03 ]

Note Jimmy Clausen is gonna be on the Vinny Cerrato show hear in DC today. Skins visited him and are planning on going to see McCoy soon.

How can you think that CB is not a massive need with our 27th ranked pass defense? We are ranked 7th in the league in sacks, so it's a little hard to point to the pass rush as the reason for the big yardage through the air.

Clements is solid, but he's slowly getting up there in age and he's slowing down as well - make no mistake about it, he's still our #1 corner. Spencer is good as well, but beyond them two, it's a steep drop off. We don't know how Harris is going to bounce back or if he's even going to be here next year. Brown is a poor tackler and is inconsistent. Bly is just suited to dime packages.

I'm all for drafting a CB to come in for Clements. We need depth badly, especially with all the passing the league is moving to. It is essential to have 3 good, solid corners because that 3rd corner is going to be on the field quite a bit.

-9fA

[ Edited by 9erfanAUS on Dec 11, 2009 at 09:27:32 ]

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
How can you think that CB is not a massive need with our 27th ranked pass defense? We are ranked 7th in the league in sacks, so it's a little hard to point to the pass rush as the reason for the big yardage through the air.

Clements is solid, but he's slowly getting up there in age and he's slowing down as well - make no mistake about it, he's still our #1 corner. Spencer is good as well, but beyond them two, it's a steep drop off. We don't know how Harris is going to bounce back or if he's even going to be here next year. Brown is a poor tackler and is inconsistent. Bly is just suited to dime packages.

I'm all for drafting a CB to come in for Clements. We need depth, badly especially with all the passing the league is moving to. It is essential to have 3 good solid corners because that 3rd corner is going to be on the field quite a bit.

-9fA

Cb and safety are massive needs.

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
How can you think that CB is not a massive need with our 27th ranked pass defense? We are ranked 7th in the league in sacks, so it's a little hard to point to the pass rush as the reason for the big yardage through the air.

Clements is solid, but he's slowly getting up there in age and he's slowing down as well - make no mistake about it, he's still our #1 corner. Spencer is good as well, but beyond them two, it's a steep drop off. We don't know how Harris is going to bounce back or if he's even going to be here next year. Brown is a poor tackler and is inconsistent. Bly is just suited to dime packages.

I'm all for drafting a CB to come in for Clements. We need depth badly, especially with all the passing the league is moving to. It is essential to have 3 good, solid corners because that 3rd corner is going to be on the field quite a bit.

-9fA

A man who gets it! Nice post

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't like a RT with the #11 pick at all. We could trade down, stockpile more picks and still get a RT. I definitely don't like a CB with the #13 pick. Nate Clements will come back next year and he is a solid player despite the way he is maligned on this board. A greater pass rush would help all our corners. Plus Nate is mostly criticized because of his salary. It's the $80 Million. If it was $30 - $40 Million nobody would complain. But it actually is $30 Million something guaranteed so he is worth that easily IMO. Corner is not as much of a problem on this team as some of our other problems.

I would really hate this draft but Scot M. is stupid enough to do something like this so it scares me for sure.

No offense but this is WAY better than the 1st round selections you suggested. If the Niners do what you want and select Dez Bryant and Taylor Mays then Scott will show his stupidity. Maddog's picks are solid. Sure the Niners might be able to move down with the 2nd first rd pick but I dont think he was making trades with the first 13 picks. Joe Haden should absolutley be our pick but should be the first of the first rounders.

I would definitely take Dez Bryant. We need more weapons still. Look at N.O. or AZ or Indy or the Pats. They have 4, 5, 6 weapons on the field often times. The league is going towards Offense with all the rule changes.

I'm ok with somebody different from Taylor Mays.

I definitely don't want Joe Haden or an corner with one of our firsts. Nate Clements will come back and he is fine with pass rush if we can get a pass rush. Something we haven't had in years around here.

Nate Clements is on the decline in my opinion and would be better suited for FS similar to the path that Ronnie Lott took. Joe Haden would come in and be our best corner. We need a passrusher and a corner to become an elite defense. On offense we need a solid RT and someone like CJ Spiller. While Bryant would be nice to have he is a luxury we cant afford.

LOL.

He's not on the decline. You guys on the WZ are hillarious about Nate. He jumped one route vs. Atlanta and people think he can't play. He's shut down Larry Fitzgerald many times since he's been here. And he played super vs Andre Johnson. We have far bigger problems on this roster than Nate Clements.

Zero pass rush + Safety problems = the biggest problems with our pass defense.

You can laugh all you want but the guy has been a disapointment in my eyes. Maybe the money is part of that but it has not proved to be a good signing. But take him out of the equation. Dre Bly sucks and I think Brown is overmatched. You simply cannot have enough very good corners.

You talk about having offensive weapons. Well if the teams in the league are doing that wouldnt it make sense that you should have the defensive studs to cover them? WHat is laughable is that you think are cornerbacks are strong enough to do that. Joe Haden would add a LOT to this team. Put Haden and someone like Hughes or Graham in our lineup next year and you might actually see us get to the next level. I dont think you can say the same for adding Dez Bryant.

Our Offense would be unbelievable with Dez Bryant, Crabtree, VD, maybe C.J. Spiller and the emergence of Alex Smith.

I just don't see Joe Haden as a real shutdown corner at the NFL level. I guess it depends how fast he runs and how athletic he turns out to be. He has lots of great players on his college team too which makes him look better than he perhaps is. I need to know more about Haden first at the workouts to say I would want him or not. But an any rate I wouldn't even put CB in our top 5 needs for 2010.

LOL You have no idea what you are talking about if you dont think CB is one of our top 5 needs. As far as shutdown corners.... well our corners certainly are not shut down corners. There might be about 2 of those in the entire league. I never said that Haden was going to be the next Champ Bailey but that he would come in and start and be an immediate impact.

We can agree to disagree on this. I will never believe that we should take Bryant and you wont think we should take Haden. So be it.

I don't see Haden being as good as Champ Bailey and neither do you. And therefore I don't want to spend a high or mid 1st rounder on him.

I'm not completely sold on Dez Bryant but I do know we need even more weapons. Look at N.O. They have 5 or more phenomonel weapons on the field at a time and they are the best team in football.

It's the wave of the future. Stack the field with tons of speedy awesome weapons and have QB in the spread offense. The running teams are mostly losers in todays NFL.

New Orleans Weapons.. I guess you dont have to spend top 10 picks on wrs or backs to get weapons. In fact, the one guy they did spend that early, Reggie Bush, has been a disappointment.

Colston 7th rd pick
Meachem late 1st rd pick
Henderson 2nd rd pick
Moore undrafted FA
Pierre THomas undrafted FA

Colston is just like a 1st rounder. In fact far better than most 1st rounders. And you forget Reggie Bush who when healthy is an excellent speedy weapon out of the backfield with great hands. And you forget Shockey who was a 1st rounder and an elite talent.

~ Colston - Elite talent regardless of the round he was picked in (People missed on him).
~ Meachem - 1st rounder.
~ Bush - When healthy and utilized he is an excellent receiver out of the backfield.
~ Shockey - 1st rounder Giants and FA. Elite talent.
~ Henderson - A very fast and good player. 2nd rounder.

They have elite talent all over the field. The biggest lie in the world is that it's all Drew Brees.

In comparison we have this.

VD - drops the ball a lot.
Crabtree - good but nowhere near Colston.

Yes they have some weapons. And yes.. only 1 WR was taken in round 1 and it was a late first round pick. My point is.. you dont have to take 2 wrs in the top 10 of the draft to get weapons at that spot. The Saints are the perfect example of that.

By the way.. dont even try to suggest that Shockey is better than VD at this point of their careers. I loved the way you described Shockey as an elite talent and VD as someone who just drops passes.

Shockey is more sure handed but Davis is faster. But overall they have way, way more elite weapons than we do.

Even Crabtree is somewhat overrated on this board. He will never, ever be a Marques Colston or Larry Fitzgerald type. He's not going to take over the game but he can be a good possesion WR. Our WR's are STILL UNDER TALENTED by elite NFL standards. Our group is average or maybe a little below that. It was just in the HORRIFIC category before Crabtree got here. But that doesn't mean since he arrived we are suddenly fantastic. In fact we are far from it.

Wow.. after about 5 games into his career you are already ready to pronounce that Michael Crabtree will never be able to take over a game like Marques Coltson? PLEASE! Both Fitz and Colston have had elite quarterbacks throwing to them in offenses that are designed to beat you with the pass. Why dont you give Crabtree at least a full year before making such a ridiculous statement.

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
How can you think that CB is not a massive need with our 27th ranked pass defense? We are ranked 7th in the league in sacks, so it's a little hard to point to the pass rush as the reason for the big yardage through the air.

Clements is solid, but he's slowly getting up there in age and he's slowing down as well - make no mistake about it, he's still our #1 corner. Spencer is good as well, but beyond them two, it's a steep drop off. We don't know how Harris is going to bounce back or if he's even going to be here next year. Brown is a poor tackler and is inconsistent. Bly is just suited to dime packages.

I'm all for drafting a CB to come in for Clements. We need depth badly, especially with all the passing the league is moving to. It is essential to have 3 good, solid corners because that 3rd corner is going to be on the field quite a bit.

-9fA

Agreed. What makes people think Spiller will have any more success than Gore is having right now behind our offensive line? If we came away with the top corner and the top right tackle prospect in this draft that'd be awesome. Our two biggest problems are blocking and pass defending, and we will have address those issues in spades by selecting Hayden and Williams.

I don't know why the 9ers would select Dez Bryant. Sure it might look sexy on paper but what is the added value to the 9ers in making a selection like that? We've got a solid corp now with Crabtree, Davis, and Morgan. Going forward I believe that Morgan's success will continue as Crabtree gets better and starts drawing more attention from defenses.

The 9ers might also be a good fit for Reggie Bush, though it would depend on the price tag.

[ Edited by bzborow1 on Dec 11, 2009 at 09:43:26 ]

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
How can you think that CB is not a massive need with our 27th ranked pass defense? We are ranked 7th in the league in sacks, so it's a little hard to point to the pass rush as the reason for the big yardage through the air.

Clements is solid, but he's slowly getting up there in age and he's slowing down as well - make no mistake about it, he's still our #1 corner. Spencer is good as well, but beyond them two, it's a steep drop off. We don't know how Harris is going to bounce back or if he's even going to be here next year. Brown is a poor tackler and is inconsistent. Bly is just suited to dime packages.

I'm all for drafting a CB to come in for Clements. We need depth badly, especially with all the passing the league is moving to. It is essential to have 3 good, solid corners because that 3rd corner is going to be on the field quite a bit.

-9fA

If Clements never got hurt things would be different at this point in the season. Yes I agree that he is getting up there in age but he can still be very effective. Don't forget we got smoked a lot this year by RB's and TE's catching the ball. That falls on LB's, nick CB's, and Safety's. Haden would help for sure but Berry would make more of an impact if we had to chose between the two.

Spiller adds something we don't have on offense and gives us a real weapon in the return game. Aside from on LOG and ROT we still need a comp back to Gore and a real slot WR. Adding those 2 positions will help immediately and let us look for mismatches all over the field. Truth be told Spiller and Ford would be great pickups for us.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
How can you think that CB is not a massive need with our 27th ranked pass defense? We are ranked 7th in the league in sacks, so it's a little hard to point to the pass rush as the reason for the big yardage through the air.

Clements is solid, but he's slowly getting up there in age and he's slowing down as well - make no mistake about it, he's still our #1 corner. Spencer is good as well, but beyond them two, it's a steep drop off. We don't know how Harris is going to bounce back or if he's even going to be here next year. Brown is a poor tackler and is inconsistent. Bly is just suited to dime packages.

I'm all for drafting a CB to come in for Clements. We need depth badly, especially with all the passing the league is moving to. It is essential to have 3 good, solid corners because that 3rd corner is going to be on the field quite a bit.

-9fA

If Clements never got hurt things would be different at this point in the season. Yes I agree that he is getting up there in age but he can still be very effective. Don't forget we got smoked a lot this year by RB's and TE's catching the ball. That falls on LB's, nick CB's, and Safety's. Haden would help for sure but Berry would make more of an impact if we had to chose between the two.

Spiller adds something we don't have on offense and gives us a real weapon in the return game. Aside from on LOG and ROT we still need a comp back to Gore and a real slot WR. Adding those 2 positions will help immediately and let us look for mismatches all over the field. Truth be told Spiller and Ford would be great pickups for us.

Berry is going to be gone. Period. Obviously he would and should be the Niners pick if available but he wont be. Haden would be the next best choice to really upgrade the secondary.

I do agree on Spiller. He would be a very nice addition for sure.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
How can you think that CB is not a massive need with our 27th ranked pass defense? We are ranked 7th in the league in sacks, so it's a little hard to point to the pass rush as the reason for the big yardage through the air.

Clements is solid, but he's slowly getting up there in age and he's slowing down as well - make no mistake about it, he's still our #1 corner. Spencer is good as well, but beyond them two, it's a steep drop off. We don't know how Harris is going to bounce back or if he's even going to be here next year. Brown is a poor tackler and is inconsistent. Bly is just suited to dime packages.

I'm all for drafting a CB to come in for Clements. We need depth badly, especially with all the passing the league is moving to. It is essential to have 3 good, solid corners because that 3rd corner is going to be on the field quite a bit.

-9fA

If Clements never got hurt things would be different at this point in the season. Yes I agree that he is getting up there in age but he can still be very effective. Don't forget we got smoked a lot this year by RB's and TE's catching the ball. That falls on LB's, nick CB's, and Safety's. Haden would help for sure but Berry would make more of an impact if we had to chose between the two.

Spiller adds something we don't have on offense and gives us a real weapon in the return game. Aside from on LOG and ROT we still need a comp back to Gore and a real slot WR. Adding those 2 positions will help immediately and let us look for mismatches all over the field. Truth be told Spiller and Ford would be great pickups for us.

Berry is going to be gone. Period. Obviously he would and should be the Niners pick if available but he wont be. Haden would be the next best choice to really upgrade the secondary.

I do agree on Spiller. He would be a very nice addition for sure.

The key to getting Berry is with KC if they go in a different direction we will get him.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
How can you think that CB is not a massive need with our 27th ranked pass defense? We are ranked 7th in the league in sacks, so it's a little hard to point to the pass rush as the reason for the big yardage through the air.

Clements is solid, but he's slowly getting up there in age and he's slowing down as well - make no mistake about it, he's still our #1 corner. Spencer is good as well, but beyond them two, it's a steep drop off. We don't know how Harris is going to bounce back or if he's even going to be here next year. Brown is a poor tackler and is inconsistent. Bly is just suited to dime packages.

I'm all for drafting a CB to come in for Clements. We need depth badly, especially with all the passing the league is moving to. It is essential to have 3 good, solid corners because that 3rd corner is going to be on the field quite a bit.

-9fA

If Clements never got hurt things would be different at this point in the season. Yes I agree that he is getting up there in age but he can still be very effective. Don't forget we got smoked a lot this year by RB's and TE's catching the ball. That falls on LB's, nick CB's, and Safety's. Haden would help for sure but Berry would make more of an impact if we had to chose between the two.

Spiller adds something we don't have on offense and gives us a real weapon in the return game. Aside from on LOG and ROT we still need a comp back to Gore and a real slot WR. Adding those 2 positions will help immediately and let us look for mismatches all over the field. Truth be told Spiller and Ford would be great pickups for us.

Berry is going to be gone. Period. Obviously he would and should be the Niners pick if available but he wont be. Haden would be the next best choice to really upgrade the secondary.

I do agree on Spiller. He would be a very nice addition for sure.

The key to getting Berry is with KC if they go in a different direction we will get him.

Considering all the holes they have, as good as Berry is, I wonder how much stock Pioli would really put in to taking a S that high. They really need to address their Oline. When they were good they had a dominant one.

Originally posted by TX9R:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
How can you think that CB is not a massive need with our 27th ranked pass defense? We are ranked 7th in the league in sacks, so it's a little hard to point to the pass rush as the reason for the big yardage through the air.

Clements is solid, but he's slowly getting up there in age and he's slowing down as well - make no mistake about it, he's still our #1 corner. Spencer is good as well, but beyond them two, it's a steep drop off. We don't know how Harris is going to bounce back or if he's even going to be here next year. Brown is a poor tackler and is inconsistent. Bly is just suited to dime packages.

I'm all for drafting a CB to come in for Clements. We need depth badly, especially with all the passing the league is moving to. It is essential to have 3 good, solid corners because that 3rd corner is going to be on the field quite a bit.

-9fA

If Clements never got hurt things would be different at this point in the season. Yes I agree that he is getting up there in age but he can still be very effective. Don't forget we got smoked a lot this year by RB's and TE's catching the ball. That falls on LB's, nick CB's, and Safety's. Haden would help for sure but Berry would make more of an impact if we had to chose between the two.

Spiller adds something we don't have on offense and gives us a real weapon in the return game. Aside from on LOG and ROT we still need a comp back to Gore and a real slot WR. Adding those 2 positions will help immediately and let us look for mismatches all over the field. Truth be told Spiller and Ford would be great pickups for us.

Berry is going to be gone. Period. Obviously he would and should be the Niners pick if available but he wont be. Haden would be the next best choice to really upgrade the secondary.

I do agree on Spiller. He would be a very nice addition for sure.

The key to getting Berry is with KC if they go in a different direction we will get him.

Considering all the holes they have, as good as Berry is, I wonder how much stock Pioli would really put in to taking a S that high. They really need to address their Oline. When they were good they had a dominant one.

I have a feeling that they may go after McClain, Pioli went after Mayo early and I can see him doing the same in KC. I still think we land Berry and Spiller this year!!!

I'd rather get CJ Spiller with our 2nd 1st rounder.

PR/RB we need for our new look O.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by TX9R:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
How can you think that CB is not a massive need with our 27th ranked pass defense? We are ranked 7th in the league in sacks, so it's a little hard to point to the pass rush as the reason for the big yardage through the air.

Clements is solid, but he's slowly getting up there in age and he's slowing down as well - make no mistake about it, he's still our #1 corner. Spencer is good as well, but beyond them two, it's a steep drop off. We don't know how Harris is going to bounce back or if he's even going to be here next year. Brown is a poor tackler and is inconsistent. Bly is just suited to dime packages.

I'm all for drafting a CB to come in for Clements. We need depth badly, especially with all the passing the league is moving to. It is essential to have 3 good, solid corners because that 3rd corner is going to be on the field quite a bit.

-9fA

If Clements never got hurt things would be different at this point in the season. Yes I agree that he is getting up there in age but he can still be very effective. Don't forget we got smoked a lot this year by RB's and TE's catching the ball. That falls on LB's, nick CB's, and Safety's. Haden would help for sure but Berry would make more of an impact if we had to chose between the two.

Spiller adds something we don't have on offense and gives us a real weapon in the return game. Aside from on LOG and ROT we still need a comp back to Gore and a real slot WR. Adding those 2 positions will help immediately and let us look for mismatches all over the field. Truth be told Spiller and Ford would be great pickups for us.

Berry is going to be gone. Period. Obviously he would and should be the Niners pick if available but he wont be. Haden would be the next best choice to really upgrade the secondary.

I do agree on Spiller. He would be a very nice addition for sure.

The key to getting Berry is with KC if they go in a different direction we will get him.

Considering all the holes they have, as good as Berry is, I wonder how much stock Pioli would really put in to taking a S that high. They really need to address their Oline. When they were good they had a dominant one.

I have a feeling that they may go after McClain, Pioli went after Mayo early and I can see him doing the same in KC. I still think we land Berry and Spiller this year!!!

True but with the Pats his o line was already solid. i think they go o line aswell