The Rugby Union General Discussion thread

It was a small half hour doco when the sevens in hong kong was on, i think they repeated it a fewvtimes on fox sports.

Originally posted by 4x4niner:
Lions line up, too early bro, the AB's only have to do is line em up, match em up to nullify em down.

Strong side, but too many Welsh imo... Gatland isn't the man for the job. Too conservative.

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Originally posted by 4x4niner:
By the way congrats to canada in the singapore sevens vs usa first time two american nations fight it out in the final.

I saw the end of that tournament, North American teams owned it... That final was one of the best I've seen.

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Originally posted by 4x4niner:
It was a small half hour doco when the sevens in hong kong was on, i think they repeated it a fewvtimes on fox sports.

Oh, I've got ya... It was one of those shorts they play in between... I've see the one on the Fijian team, it was pretty good.

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P.S... Blues have got to give Tana one more season at the helm. They've improved greatly, but just struggle to put other NZ teams away in the final twenty. They had the Hurricanes on the ropes, but couldn't deliver the knockout blow. Shame, as it cost them greatly in the end.

Tana will stay the whole nine yards Sporto he has given the blues enough of a leg up to keep his contract going. Imo.

Originally posted by 4x4niner:

Tana will stay the whole nine yards Sporto he has given the blues enough of a leg up to keep his contract going. Imo.

Agreed... He's actually had a pretty decent season so far.

I feel sorry for the Blues, 4x4... They may be last in the NZ conference, but on their current points standing they would be top of the Australian conference, & tied top of the Africa 1 conference.

The conference system works well in the NFL, but in Super Rugby it has been farcical at times.

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P.S.... Here's the - Japan 2019 RWC / Draw... If you are interested.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/pooldraw

(Eight more teams to be added via qualifying matches)

Thanx for the heads up on the '19 wc. Critics are sayin' that pool B for the AB's is a fumbling road to a final let alone to trying to get there to win it. But I say we have the greatest X Factor players in the world in this era and a X Factor team called the ALLBLACKS that will get a fourth.

The cheetahs rolling maul is impressive at the try line and their kicking prowess is the best but other than that...the ioane brothers just bust 'em up in the breakdowns. Luv the way the blues played. Need to attack the linouts more and find a way to neutralise that maul.

Oh and a happy birthday to late great Jonah Lomu! Cheers for the memories!

Blues are definitely heading in the right direction, 4by.

On current points they would sit atop of both the Australian & Africa 1 conferences.

Now they've got to find a way to get over the hump against the other NZ sides. They've come close, but fallen just short.

I'd like to see Rieko follow a similar path to Tana. Keep him out wide for the first part of his career & move him inside after he matures.

He's deadly out on the wing, possibly New Zealand's most dangerous outside back? (I'm comfortable saying that, even with Julian in form)

Akira is starting to develop nicely as well, love what I'm seeing from him. If he keeps it up, he may get his shot with the ABs in the near future?

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Getting a bit sick of hearing rugby is boring around Australian sport / rugby circles, & in the media. I agree, Australian rugby is in a bad way (I hope the Australian game becomes strong again). The brand they are playing is low quality & for the lack of a better term, boring. But don't be lazy & lump all rugby in together with the current state of the Australian game.

The rugby currently being played in the NZ conference is as high quality & skillful sporting entertainment, as you'll find in any other sporting competition.

Not to mention the game in the North is going from strength to strength. The Champions Cup Final between Saracens & Clermont was outstanding quality.


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HBD to the big fella, 4x4... Can't believe he'll be gone two years in December.

RIP

Got to see 3 brilliant games over the weekend.

Chiefs v Crusaders (Super Rugby)

Exeter Chiefs v Saracens (Aviva Semi Final)

Wasps v Leicester (Aviva Semi Final)

All 3 matches were in the 9-10/10 range. Just great rugby.

———

Exeter Chiefs v London Wasps in the Aviva Final at Twickenham.

Well done, Exeter. Deserved champions. Hard luck, Wasps.

Brilliant game, perhaps the best I've seen this year.

The whole finals series, & regular season of the Aviva was special tbf.

I didnt get to hear that one about rugby being boring, if it is its the aussie and african sides that make it that way and yes their standards have dropped but i do see individual brilliance in those sides.

Missed watching the Lions vs Baa Baas. Awesome game apparently. Baas had territory possesion slightly ahead, their lineouts were phenomenal and their defence scramble was like yehaa desperation, two penalties against them lost the game.

Lions vs Blues this wednesday cant wait although the Lions will win slightly...however I hope the Blues play like the baa baas and should be more structured and with a few AB's on the team can, well the goal is to be the first club team to beat a touring nations.

Originally posted by 4x4niner:
I didnt get to hear that one about rugby being boring, if it is its the aussie and african sides that make it that way and yes their standards have dropped but i do see individual brilliance in those sides.

Missed watching the Lions vs Baa Baas. Awesome game apparently. Baas had territory possesion slightly ahead, their lineouts were phenomenal and their defence scramble was like yehaa desperation, two penalties against them lost the game.

Lions vs Blues this wednesday cant wait although the Lions will win slightly...however I hope the Blues play like the baa baas and should be more structured and with a few AB's on the team can, well the goal is to be the first club team to beat a touring nations.

It's being said in various forms of general sports media, forums, & comments sections. Basically using the current state of the Australian game to bag the overall quality of the sport. Like I said, Australian rugby is down at the moment, but the sport is thriving elsewhere & plenty of high quality rugby is being played.

Although you can't blame the casual Aussie sports fan for taking little interest in NZ, or Northern Hemisphere rugby. True rugby fans will go looking for the good stuff.

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Lions team to face the Blues

Lions: Leigh Halfpenny, Jack Nowell, Jared Payne, Robbie Henshaw, Elliot Daly, Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb, CJ Stander, Justin Tipuric, James Haskell, Courtney Lawes, Maro Itoje, Dan Cole, Ken Owens (c), Jack McGrath

Reserves: Rory Best, Joe Marler, Kyle Sinckler, Iain Henderson, Peter O'Mahony, Greig Laidlaw, Johnny Sexton, Liam Williams

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11870008

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Blues team to face the Lions

Blues: Michael Collins, Matt Duffie, George Moala, Sonny Bill Williams Rieko Ioane, Stephen Perofeta, Augustine Pulu; Steven Luatua, Blake Gibson, Akira Ioane, Scott Scrafton, Gerard Cowley-Tuioti, Charlie Faumuina, James Parsons (capt), Ofa Tu'ungafasi.

Reserves: Hame Faiva, Alex Hodgman, Sione Mafileo, Patrick Tuipulotu, Kara Pryor, Sam Nock, Ihaia West, TJ Faiane.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/93374471/lions-tour-sonny-bill-williams-declared-fit-and-ready-to-front-for-blues

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Should be a good one tomorrow night, 4x4... Lions looked terrible against the Baa Baas.

Blues will be in with a real chance... However, the Lions could come out roaring

All Black audition for young Rieko, perhaps? ... Also a good chance for SBW to find some form.

I don't get it. how does a team gain possession? get a turnover? or w/e

Originally posted by defenderDX:

I don't get it. how does a team gain possession? get a turnover? or w/e

Yeah, in Rugby Union, a team keeps possession of the ball until they score, kick it away for a hopeful net gain in field position, lose possession due to a mistake or have the ball stolen in the ruck or by pass interception.

In Rugby League, (Jarryd Hayne's sport) you can only hold the ball for 6 tackles (like 4 downs). If you're tackled a sixth time with the ball it's an automatic turnover at the place of that tackle. Teams will almost always kick on the fifth tackle because it can lead to either a chance to score, a hopeful net gain in field position or even a chance to get the ball back if the opposition player receiving the kick can be tackled within the in-goal (end zone) he's defending.

The two Rugby codes have a lot of similarities but also some big differences.

Originally posted by Zealot:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
I don't get it. how does a team gain possession? get a turnover? or w/e

Yeah, in Rugby Union, a team keeps possession of the ball until they score, kick it away for a hopeful net gain in field position, lose possession due to a mistake or have the ball stolen in the ruck or by pass interception.

In Rugby League, (Jarryd Hayne's sport) you can only hold the ball for 6 tackles (like 4 downs). If you're tackled a sixth time with the ball it's an automatic turnover at the place of that tackle. Teams will almost always kick on the fifth tackle because it can lead to either a chance to score, a hopeful net gain in field position or even a chance to get the ball back if the opposition player receiving the kick can be tackled within the in-goal (end zone) he's defending.

The two Rugby codes have a lot of similarities but also some big differences.

Nice work, Zeal...

I'll just elaborate on the bit in bold...

(Here's the wiki description)

Turnover

When a team concedes possession of the ball, particularly at the breakdown, they are said to have turned the ball over to the other team. This can happen due to defending players stealing the ball from an isolated attacker, counter rucking, a knock on, an intercepted pass or the ball not emerging from a maul (wherein the referee awards the scrum feed to the opposing team).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_rugby_union_terms#T

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Firstly both football & rugby union are highly complex sports in terms of rules / laws, officiating, etc. Probably more so than most other sports.

There are a ton of (WTF ) moments in rugby union regarding rules / laws & interpretations by officiating crews, similar to that in football.

Rugby union is basically designed to encourage competition for the football in every facet of play. It's like one large game made up of a multitude of micro contests.

In theory you could play a game & never relinquish possession, but with the way the game's structured there are multiple ways to create turnovers. So, it's highly unlikely. (Might happen in a Pro vs Under-12's situation).

In rugby union you have to compete for the right to keep possession of the ball in almost every situation on the rugby field. In some game situations it is easier to retain possession than it is in others, it usually depends on how hard the opposition competes in any given area of play / micro contest.

As Z said...

(If the attacking team makes a mistake / handling error) ... (The ball is turned over to the defending team)

Two common mistakes revolve around the ball travelling forward...

- Passing, fumbling (Knocking), the ball forward (Called a Knock-on) is a turnover.

(If the attacking team commits illegal / foul play) ... (The ball is turned over to the defending team)

Any dirty / illegal play is a penalty & a turnover. Penalties committed by the attacking team = turnovers.

For example -

Blocking is illegal in rugby union & rugby league, it's called (Obstruction / Interference). Obstruction, deliberate or accidental is a penalty & a turnover.

The attacking team leaving their feet & diving over the ruck to unfairly seal off / shield the ball from the defending team's counter-ruck is illegal & a penalty / turnover.

If the tackled attacking player becomes isolated & doesn't place / release the ball, but instead...

- Holds on to the ball

- Crawls or rolls forward, off their feet with the ball

- Gets to their feet without releasing the ball, while held in the tackle, & attempts to play-on / run with the ball again

- Or releases & then plays / handles the ball on the ground... It's a penalty / turnover.

If any player on the attacking team illegally targets a defending player in the ruck or maul with foul play, it's a penalty / turnover & possible card offence (Ejection).

If the attacking team forms a maul (Legal Obstruction / Blocking in rugby union), which is countered by the defending team & stopped or sacked, it's a turnover if the attacking team cannot free the football.

(This is a Maul)


- Truck & Trailer = Turnover...

(From that above rugby wiki link)

A colloquial term for an accidental obstruction. "Truck and trailer" occurs when a player carrying the ball leaves a maul, along with one or more of his teammates. Once the ball carrier leaves the maul, the maul is over, and if the ball carrier's teammates are in front of the ball carrier and prevent defending players from making a tackle, the defending team will be awarded a scrum. If the incident of truck and trailer is judged to be deliberate or the latest in a series of similar infringements, a penalty may be awarded instead.

Also...

If the attacking player runs high into contact / the collision zone, & the defending team holds him up, it will initiate a maul situation. If the attacking team cannot free the ball, or the ball becomes unplayable, it's a turnover.

(Known as the Choke Tackle - Here's an interesting demo)


(Here's the technique in action)


Most...Rugby union teams practice stripping the ball in contact & pilfering the ball at the breakdown (Ruck). As winning turnovers is part of the defensive workload.

However, the majority of teams have a specialist at the breakdown who pilfers the ball & wins turnovers. Usually it's the role of the Openside Flanker (Number 7). But players in other positions can also master the skill...

(Here's one of the world's best - Note / He's wearing number 8 in this video)


(Also a demo of the role, from a HOF centre)


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Turnovers can also be won via competing at the set-piece...

Examples...

(At -- 0:00 - 0:20 / 1:11 - 1:39 / 2:30 - 2:48 -- The attacking team has their ball stolen / turned over by the defending team after a huge defensive [Tighthead] scrum)


(At 0:22 -- The attacking team in white has their ball stolen by the defending team in green)


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In rugby union attacking teams will often kick away possession if...

- They find themselves pinned down under pressure in dangerous field position [Near their own goal-line]. (Kicking used as a defensive mechanism)

- Kicking tactically to pin the defending opponent, down near their own goal-line. Conceding possession in the process

- Kicking tactically with intent to attack, but failing to execute correctly ... (Kicking is the only method of forward pass that is legal in rugby)

(Examples)


............. That's pretty much the gist of it.